Proposal: Hagelin to the Leafs

TML1967

Registered User
Jul 20, 2010
2,983
625
Wondering if the Leafs might look to to take a 1 year cap dump if they end up with a decent amount of cap space to gain even more assets.

Pitsburgh could use some wiggle room, and I see Hagelin as someone on an expiring contract. 4 million.

Hagelin and a 2nd round pick for Leivo?

Leafs could use his speed to make a insanely mismatched bottom 6 of...
Johnsson Kadri Brown
Hagelin Lindholm Kappanen

Thoughts?
 

Liminality

Registered User
Oct 22, 2008
13,366
4,013
I like it, we still have enough cap space to take advantage of a move like this and getting something in return for Leivo would be nice.
That Hagelin and Kap 4th line would have to be up there for one of the fastest bottom 6 lines in the league.

We've got 14.7m cap space left, Nylander takes potentially half of that and they can choose not to put Horton on LTIR.
 

Smif

Registered User
Jan 23, 2008
9,809
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Hamilton
I like it as well. With being tight to the cap as of next year we need trade capitol to add at the deadline. 2nd Rd picks are coveted for rebuilding teams.
 

DopeyFish

Mitchy McDangles
Nov 17, 2009
6,598
4,694
I like it, we still have enough cap space to take advantage of a move like this and getting something in return for Leivo would be nice.
That Hagelin and Kap 4th line would have to be up there for one of the fastest bottom 6 lines in the league.

We've got 14.7m cap space left, Nylander takes potentially half of that and they can choose not to put Horton on LTIR.

We don't have cap space and they cannot put horton on LTIR because bonuses have to hit this year and not next (due to our contracts)

So while we have 14, we also don't have extra bodies (aka 21-23), Leafs need to buffer for the 3.7 million in bonuses and Leafs need buffer in the event of injury... so worst case our cap is now at about... 600k roughly... that 600k is if nylander gets 7 mil and we are carrying 23. Leafs will be using a lot of tricks to maximize this before the deadline.... unless we get an early injury

So we're pretty much capped out right now.
 

inthe6ix

Registered User
Oct 3, 2008
5,497
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Toronto, Canada
Overvaluing Josh - I like Hagelin more even with his expiring - we would have to add if they are going to throw in a 2nd as well.
 

ninetyone

Registered User
Jul 12, 2018
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62
I like Hagelin for the Leafs. Doughty more, the Karlsson, but Hagelin is a decent player (not with the money but it's one year)

Then again. Who needs another forward
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,382
77,967
Redmond, WA
Wondering if the Leafs might look to to take a 1 year cap dump if they end up with a decent amount of cap space to gain even more assets.

Why are the Penguins dumping Hagelin all of a sudden? And why does he have negative value to the point where they'd have to add a 2nd just to get Leivo? Most Penguins fans don't even want to move Hagelin, let alone dumping him and adding for a worse player.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
77,840
51,503
I like Hagelin but not for his cap hit or the idea of a second round pick going out the door for another rental.

In order to go big game hunting like Tampa has with McDonagh and Miller, we need to have the habit of making our 2nd round picks every year. How much better of a position would Toronto be in if we had the Plekanec and Boyle 2nd rounders right now? That's basically Alexander Volkov and Jacob Olofsson.
 
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Hurt

Registered User
Apr 6, 2009
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Hagelin is so frustrating to watch. He's fast and can read a play but just can't score to match the rest of his skills. Don't want him.
 

Liminality

Registered User
Oct 22, 2008
13,366
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I like Hagelin but not for his cap hit or the idea of a second round pick going out the door for another rental.

In order to go big game hunting like Tampa has with McDonagh and Miller, we need to have the habit of making our 2nd round picks every year. How much better of a position would Toronto be in if we had the Plekanec and Boyle 2nd rounders right now? That's basically Alexander Volkov and Jacob Olofsson.
The deal was actually Hagelin + 2nd for Leivo. :laugh:

Whatever the trade might be (That's reasonable), I think he'd be a decent choice for a 1 year player for us.
 

Crease Master

Registered User
Dec 17, 2016
700
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This is dumb, the last thing we need is a cap dump. You are a few years behind us, please catch up. We just signed a top player and are cup favorites in Vegas. If we waste our cap space like this we will look stupid at the trade deadline when our competition adds good rentals we can no longer afford because an extra second round pick was just so important to have. Like I said, dumb.
 
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BM14

Registered User
Dec 7, 2012
5,895
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GTA
Hagelin is so frustrating to watch. He's fast and can read a play but just can't score to match the rest of his skills. Don't want him.
Yah, kind of like a better Grabner with the same hands.
 

TML1967

Registered User
Jul 20, 2010
2,983
625
Why are the Penguins dumping Hagelin all of a sudden? And why does he have negative value to the point where they'd have to add a 2nd just to get Leivo? Most Penguins fans don't even want to move Hagelin, let alone dumping him and adding for a worse player.

I see them as a team close to the cap who will likely want to have some cap flexibility.
They are a team I looked at and thought "this team will likely add at the tdl" or possibly a team that R.Nash would stay in the NHL to play for.

Either way they have Hagelin on their 4th line making 4 million as a cap team. His struggles last year make him a negative value player IMO (30 point oave over last two seasons) or maybe neutral.

Even if the trade is Leivo and a 4th for Hagelin and a 2nd I think it makes sense.
 

The Man with a Plan

Registered User
Dec 19, 2008
3,338
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Victoria BC
This is dumb, the last thing we need is a cap dump. You are a few years behind us, please catch up. We just signed a top player and are cup favorites in Vegas. If we waste our cap space like this we will look stupid at the trade deadline when our competition adds good rentals we can no longer afford because an extra second round pick was just so important to have. Like I said, dumb.

This...

I doubt we see Dubas waste the space we will have before at least the new year or the deadline.

They have shown patience all along, why change that now? Save that space for a possible impact player rather then wasting 4 million on a 4th liner for the sake of a pick. That's just poor cap management.

I'm hoping Kyle trys his hand at moving Hortons contract to the Yotes personally. It could be worth it to open up that money after all. They seem to be in a mood to take on contracts ;)
 

MattySnipes

Registered User
Jan 26, 2018
12,457
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'Mecca' of Hockey
We don't have cap space and they cannot put horton on LTIR because bonuses have to hit this year and not next (due to our contracts)

So while we have 14, we also don't have extra bodies (aka 21-23), Leafs need to buffer for the 3.7 million in bonuses and Leafs need buffer in the event of injury... so worst case our cap is now at about... 600k roughly... that 600k is if nylander gets 7 mil and we are carrying 23. Leafs will be using a lot of tricks to maximize this before the deadline.... unless we get an early injury

So we're pretty much capped out right now.
Stop making so much sense :sarcasm:
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,382
77,967
Redmond, WA
I see them as a team close to the cap who will likely want to have some cap flexibility.
They are a team I looked at and thought "this team will likely add at the tdl" or possibly a team that R.Nash would stay in the NHL to play for.

Either way they have Hagelin on their 4th line making 4 million as a cap team. His struggles last year make him a negative value player IMO (30 point oave over last two seasons) or maybe neutral.

Even if the trade is Leivo and a 4th for Hagelin and a 2nd I think it makes sense.

A. Cap flexibility is worth nothing if you can't add anyone with it. The Penguins aren't exactly overflowing with valuable trade assets, so having cap space just to have cap space is pretty worthless to them.
B. Hagelin isn't going to be playing on the Penguins 4th line, especially considering how weak they are on LW. He'll either be playing on their 2nd or 3rd line.
C. There's not a chance in hell he's a negative value player. You don't bring him in based on his offense, you bring him in based on his speed and defense. Even if you only value him based on his offense, $4 million for a 30 point player is about the going rate based on what GMs are paying players.

This is just not a thought out proposal for the Penguins. Why are they adding to get a worse player when they're a win now team? They'll stomach Hagelin's high cap hit and let him walk after next year, which isn't even a negative because Hagelin is a solid player who provides something they lack. I wouldn't do Hagelin for Leivo straight up, let alone adding to Hagelin to make that swap.

You're basically suggesting the Penguins dumping Hagelin in a negative value trade, when there are more Penguins fans who don't want to trade Hagelin at all. There are quite a few Penguins fans on HF that don't want to trade Hagelin at all, because of the special talents he brings.
 
Last edited:

TML1967

Registered User
Jul 20, 2010
2,983
625
This is dumb, the last thing we need is a cap dump. You are a few years behind us, please catch up. We just signed a top player and are cup favorites in Vegas. If we waste our cap space like this we will look stupid at the trade deadline when our competition adds good rentals we can no longer afford because an extra second round pick was just so important to have. Like I said, dumb.

Ok. Please tell me who you want to sign right now who's left on the market.

Only people I'd want are Rick Nash (may be retired), Hamhuis (is looking for a multi year deal and a good salary), Vermette (would love a faveoff specialist 4c who can pk. Limited minutes would be perfect)

Maybe Enstrom/ Sbisa / Hansen/ Hartnell/ Winnik if they are super cheap on a 1 year deal.

I wouldn't suggest taking a multi year cap killer. I also think Hagelin with Kappanen would be a terror speed wise and on the PK to teams.

I also don't think a 2nd round pick is something to sneaze at. Would help recover the cost of getting Plekanec from last year. Even if it's leivo+4th for Hagelin+2nd I'd be happy. Hell at the TDL retain 50% and flip him for another pick to a team with injuries
 

TML1967

Registered User
Jul 20, 2010
2,983
625
A. Cap flexibility is worth nothing if you can't add anyone with it. The Penguins aren't exactly overflowing with valuable trade assets, so having cap space just to have cap space is pretty worthless to them.
B. Hagelin isn't going to be playing on the Penguins 4th line, especially considering how weak they are on LW. He'll either be playing on their 2nd or 3rd line.
C. There's not a chance in hell he's a negative value player. You don't bring him in based on his offense, you bring him in based on his speed and defense. Even if you only value him based on his offense, $4 million for a 30 point player is about the going rate based on what GMs are paying players.

This is just not a thought out proposal for the Penguins. Why are they adding to get a worse player when they're a win now team? They'll stomach Hagelin's high cap hit and let him walk after next year, which isn't even a negative because Hagelin is a solid player who provides something they lack. I wouldn't do Hagelin for Leivo straight up, let alone adding to Hagelin to make that swap.


That makes sense. I guess I looked at the cap issues you guys have and thought you'd want out of them.
I looked at some of the Penguins board and it had a bit of a 'house on fire' vibe when it came to the cap.
Especially with a few guys seeming to be on the "Panarin or Skinner to Pens" train.
Either way, if the cap crunch isn't an issue the trade makes no sense I agree.

If they are looking to dump him if they are going after one of them, I still think Leivo+4th for Hagelin+2nd makes sense.

Happy hunting!
 

JEI

Jericho
Jun 7, 2004
11,561
494
Wondering if the Leafs might look to to take a 1 year cap dump if they end up with a decent amount of cap space to gain even more assets.

Pitsburgh could use some wiggle room, and I see Hagelin as someone on an expiring contract. 4 million.

Hagelin and a 2nd round pick for Leivo?

Leafs could use his speed to make a insanely mismatched bottom 6 of...
Johnsson Kadri Brown
Hagelin Lindholm Kappanen

Thoughts?

Why would we help Pittsburgh out of their cap problems? They are a conference rival. No thanks.
 

TML1967

Registered User
Jul 20, 2010
2,983
625
Why would we help Pittsburgh out of their cap problems? They are a conference rival. No thanks.

He is good on the PK and defensively, and has speed to burn.

My idea would mostly be to use him to expose other teams when the Leafs 4th line is on the ice.
If you have to deal with Matthews, Tavares and Kadris lines and your reprieve is dealing with Hagelin and Kappanens speed? WOOF!
 

JEI

Jericho
Jun 7, 2004
11,561
494
He is good on the PK and defensively, and has speed to burn.

My idea would mostly be to use him to expose other teams when the Leafs 4th line is on the ice.
If you have to deal with Matthews, Tavares and Kadris lines and your reprieve is dealing with Hagelin and Kappanens speed? WOOF!

We have a glut of forwards already. I wouldn't pick Hagelin over any of them at this point.
 

Ricky Bobby

Registered User
Aug 31, 2008
8,456
312
A. What are tur Pens opening cap room for?

B. Lots of other teams including rich teams like the Habs and Rangers have far more cap flexibility than us.
 

Eb

Registered User
Feb 27, 2011
7,806
610
Toronto
This is dumb, the last thing we need is a cap dump. You are a few years behind us, please catch up. We just signed a top player and are cup favorites in Vegas. If we waste our cap space like this we will look stupid at the trade deadline when our competition adds good rentals we can no longer afford because an extra second round pick was just so important to have. Like I said, dumb.
Dumb dumb
 

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