Habs - The Best Team at the Deadline

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
This is exactly what I mean in this discussion.

The idea that Subban would have signed a long term deal for a number like that is absolutely baseless speculation, yet it's used as evidence to support it being a mistake to sign him to that bridge deal.

Why would PK Subban have agreed to a contract from the age of 22-28 at anything less than 6 million per year?

You need me to tell you why a 22 yo player would be tempted to sign a contract worth around 25-30M???? Really buddy??
There is no guarantee for PK that 2 years later he would get a bigger contract. He's going to have to keep improving and he can't go through injuries, in a 2 year buffer.
So ya, if he gets the chance to sign a deal worth close to 30M dollars already, securing his financial status, and then give himself 6 more years to build his game to the point where he'll be able to break the bank in his prime, you should be asking yourself why the hell he wouldn't agree to that deal. Not the opposite.

Btw, they're not baseless speculations. Those numbers were mentioned in the media.
 

JohnLennon

Registered User
Mar 26, 2011
5,787
1,558
If Petry does leave it's back to back years trading 2nd round picks for rentals.

Not entirely sure that fits in with Bergevins' claim of not wanting to trade futures for rentals.

So that trade gets a question mark for now.

Trading one 2nd round pick for a rental would be okay, but back to back years is questionable at best.

Are you kidding man? A second and Sebastian Collberg for Tomas Vanek was a steal for the Habs. Unreal trade.

And now we got probably the best defenseman available at the deadline for a 2nd and conditional 5th pick and you're unsure about it? Both trades were very good, even if both players end up being rentals. We got bargain deals for two of the biggest deadline pickups, and to make those types of trades, most teams would be paying much more at the deadline.
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
Are you kidding man? A second and Sebastian Collberg for Tomas Vanek was a steal for the Habs. Unreal trade.

And now we got probably the best defenseman available at the deadline for a 2nd and conditional 5th pick and you're unsure about it? Both trades were very good, even if both players end up being rentals. We got bargain deals for two of the biggest deadline pickups, and to make those types of trades, most teams would be paying much more at the deadline.

Those are great trades value wise, but they essentially become rather useless if they don't yield results and then they leave.
Last year, you can say we got experience out of that Vanek trade. Maybe we just don't reach the Conference Finals if we don't go after him. But you can't keep trading 2nd round picks for rentals.
It doesn't make the Petry vs 2nd+conditional a bad trade on the value side of it. But from a managerial point of view, you can't keep doing it.
 

Mr Jackpot

Registered User
Mar 16, 2013
747
26
Montreal
A rental player is when a team is in good position in the standings at the trade deadline and they go get a UFA from a team that will likely not make the playoffs.

In every cases, there's a price to pay:

-Vermette from Arizona to Chicago for a 1st and a prospect
-Zdilicky from New-Jersey to Detroit for conditionnal draft picks
-Stewart from Buffalo to Minnesota for a 2nd round pick
-....
 

Nynja*

Guest
I bet you were one of the tens of thousands going "HOLY **** WE GOT VANEK FOR ONLY A SECOND AND COLLBERG"
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
And then they leave? Vanek was a rental, what are you talking about.
Yes, we traded a 2nd and SB for him. After the season he left and signed with Minny. Not sure what's tough for you to understand.

A rental player is when a team is in good position in the standings at the trade deadline and they go get a UFA from a team that will likely not make the playoffs.

In every cases, there's a price to pay:

-Vermette from Arizona to Chicago for a 1st and a prospect
-Zdilicky from New-Jersey to Detroit for conditionnal draft picks
-Stewart from Buffalo to Minnesota for a 2nd round pick
-....

I don't think you're following the conversation..

People know what rental players are. That's not the topic. It's whether we should go after one costing a 2nd pick often.
 

Mr Jackpot

Registered User
Mar 16, 2013
747
26
Montreal
Yes, we traded a 2nd and SB for him. After the season he left and signed with Minny. Not sure what's tough for you to understand.

once again you said he left, he didn't left at all, he was a rental player, he was UFA at the end of the season.
 

JohnLennon

Registered User
Mar 26, 2011
5,787
1,558
Those are great trades value wise, but they essentially become rather useless if they don't yield results and then they leave.
Last year, you can say we got experience out of that Vanek trade. Maybe we just don't reach the Conference Finals if we don't go after him. But you can't keep trading 2nd round picks for rentals.
It doesn't make the Petry vs 2nd+conditional a bad trade on the value side of it. But from a managerial point of view, you can't keep doing it.

It definitely isn't ideal to keep trading 2nd round picks away for assets that we might not keep as more than rentals. But I think it is important to look at the quality of players being acquired. Tomas Vanek was still a star in the league last year, going almost point-per-game, and I'd do that trade again in an instant just from the sheer star power and offensive boost it gives an otherwise lackluster offense.

I think Petry is another steal of a trade because the guy is entering the prime of his career, still has offensive upside, has an amazing contract that fits in perfectly for a playoff run, and most importantly, opens the door to keep him long-term.

In the end, I don't think Bergevin acquired Petry as a rental. I think he wants him long-term, and this trade just gave us a big boost for the playoffs with the upside of keeping him long-term. I also think he wanted Vanek as more than a rental too, but made the good decision not to keep him due to financial reasons. I agree that we shouldn't keep moving important assets for rentals, but I also think these trades weren't intended to only be rentals in the first place.
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
Why is it such a given that a player will leave his team as soon as he becomes a UFA?

Perry and Getzlaf stayed, as did many, many others. This whole "well we kept him for his prime years!" thing is a non-factor, he very likely would've stayed after the proposed 5 year contract was up. Furthermore, we didn't even use the saved cap-space because they were "transition" years according to Bergevin and that cap-space went to Briere, Bouillon and Drewiskie.
 

Nynja*

Guest
I can list at least 3 reasons why the Vanek trade was good, and all these reasons has nothing to do with Vanek himself.

Why not post those 3 reasons when you made your post instead of provoking a situation?
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
I am a proponent of GMs supporting their team and showing faith in their own players by acquiring pieces at the deadline. I am NOT a proponent of dicking around all summer and keeping inadequate players like Desharnais and Moen
 

Mr Jackpot

Registered User
Mar 16, 2013
747
26
Montreal
1. It showed support and faith in the team - good for morale
2. Added depth to the top6 - good for the team
3. Kept other contenders from picking up a big piece - good for our chances

4- giving confidence for every other players in team for the last stretch of the season and for the playoffs. Confidence bring wins and wins bring momentum.

5- having a better chance to win the Cup

6- 3 rounds of playoffs experience for every young players in the team and keep building on that winning culture that the Habs are trying to bring back to the team.

There's no price you can pay for experience.
 

Redux91

I do Three bullets.
Sep 5, 2006
45,300
39,337
Kirkland, Montreal
Why is it such a given that a player will leave his team as soon as he becomes a UFA?

Perry and Getzlaf stayed, as did many, many others. This whole "well we kept him for his prime years!" thing is a non-factor, he very likely would've stayed after the proposed 5 year contract was up. Furthermore, we didn't even use the saved cap-space because they were "transition" years according to Bergevin and that cap-space went to Briere, Bouillon and Drewiskie.

in getzlaf and perrys defense... who the hell wants to leave califnornia lol..

but i get you, makes no sense to me people think soon as UFA is mentioned they AUTO want to leave, if its the leafs as they are now, yeah a UFA wants to leave, who the hell wants to leave top teams tho, i mean it happens but you have to be stupid and greedy, and not EVERYone is. and no, i dont think pk would of EVER left, ever.
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,806
20,961
1. It showed support and faith in the team - good for morale
2. Added depth to the top6 - good for the team
3. Kept other contenders from picking up a big piece - good for our chances

2 and 3 have to do with Vanek though.

So it's not what the other poster wrote.
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,806
20,961
4- giving confidence for every other players in team for the last stretch of the season and for the playoffs. Confidence bring wins and wins bring momentum.

5- having a better chance to win the Cup

6- 3 rounds of playoffs experience for every young players in the team and keep building on that winning culture that the Habs are trying to bring back to the team.

There's no price you can pay for experience.

Your three reasons are not three different things and all have to do with Vanek.
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,806
20,961
Vanek made the team better because he was a very good first liner, and he improved the second line by pushing Gallagher there, and Galagher improved the third line by pushing Gionta there. I forget who ended up on the 4th line.
 

Nynja*

Guest
and no, i dont think pk would of EVER left, ever.

I bet people were saying the same about Roy...things can happen that will change things.


PS: 6 reasons why the vanek trade was good for the team that "dont involve Vanek", and 5 of those reasons involve Vanek. GG MATE
 

Mr Jackpot

Registered User
Mar 16, 2013
747
26
Montreal
Many people don't seem to understand the concept of rental players in the NHL. Kriss E thinks that Vanek left the team but he was never with the team to begin with. When you rent a movie, the movie is not yours, you have to give it back at the end, this is what rental means. And when you give the movie back there's no refund.

When you want to rent anything you want there's a price to pay, and the thing is not yours.

A rental trade is a win-win situation for both teams because the team that acquire a rental improve their chances to win the Cup and for all the other reasons we listed, and for the other teams it gives them prospects and draft picks to build with to improve their poor team.

You guys really wanna argue that the Vanek and Petry rental deals were bad deals? Ok go ahead lol...
 

Mr Jackpot

Registered User
Mar 16, 2013
747
26
Montreal

Mr Jackpot

Registered User
Mar 16, 2013
747
26
Montreal
And regarding Petry signing here, Bergevin keep repeating that he will not build his team through free agency, you really think that he will sign Vanek or Petry for multi years deal?

The only free agents that he will sign is depth players (that's another concept that people don't get: depth players).
 

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