Confirmed with Link: Habs sign Nick Cousins (1 year, $1M AAV)

[Fazkovsky]

Mb maybe did a favour to Nick’s Cousins

GENIUS

 

[Habby4Life]

Yes you do. You get to bury 1.075M of any players you bury. Cousins make under 1.075M so you bury the whole thing if you send him down.

I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. This signing and others like it are not a hinderance to the cap because if they aren’t able to contribute then they will/can be buried in the AHL.

Much todo about nothing.

 

[LaP]

I love players taking ice time away from Beaulieu, Tinordi and Scherbak. However awful they might be, it still means I don't have to watch Beaulieu, Tinordi or Scherbak, which is awesome. If Evans, Suzuki or whoever else are ready for the NHL, they'll find a way into the lineup.

That puzzles me. You'd rather watch an awful middle 20ies player who already had his chance with 2-3 other teams than a right now awful kid we drafted that might or might not develop. Mean that's something. My mind is blown.

 

[Runner77]

This whole thread is just one gigantic face palm lol, i feel sorry for Nick, but its bergevins fault i guess getting something we dont need but at a ridiculously good price lmao.

More than likely Cousins was added in order to jettison a weaker option on the club. I prefer to wait and see what that other move or moves might be, before making an opinion on how Cousins fits in.

 

[Archijerej]

That puzzles me. You'd rather watch an awful middle 20ies player who already had his chance with 2-3 other teams than a right now awful kid we drafted that might or might not develop. Mean that's something. My mind is blown.

I'd rather watch piranhas eat my testicles than Beaulieu, Tinordi or Scherbak in a Habs uniform.

 

[vokiel]

While it doesn't affect your payroll? Sorry but I don't see where the big fuss is.

It doesn't affect payroll, but that's not really important when we're 10 million under the cap. It affects the value of all assets in the pool that are competing for the same spots.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Not necessarily, at least for Evans, the NHL is far from a meritocracy league. Coaches put too much value in veterans who play safe and one-way contracts play a part. Thompson is clearly blocking Evans from making the team this year. The NHL, like most things in life is about opportunity or being at the right place at the right time. Who knows if someone with a higher draft status (or an acquisition) doesn't leap over Evans next year?

Anyway, this is not our biggest problem but it's in part explained why our team has been middle of the pack the last few years. Depth is good, but at some point it can be detrimental if you never give a chance to kids. You can talk **** about the names I listed in my other post but it's not like giving an opportunity to Scherbak would have made our team worse. In fact, it could have impacted the team in multiple ways: a) he produces and builds his confidence (an aspect that is often overlooked on HFHabs) b) he sucks and makes our decision to move on come much quicker rather than hanging on to him and wasting a roster spot on him like we did this year. The latter made us lose DLR, basically forced us to tell Plekanec to retire and prevented us from grabbing Weal when the Flyers put him on waivers (which would have helped our 4th line and hey maybe we make the playoffs!).

The NHL involves a lot of decisions and people call out the management for being lazy and going for safe rather than see the bigger picture.

In camp, veterans tend to take it slow, prepare themselves for the upcoming season, slowly get into gear. This is because they have nothing to prove. Management knows exactly what these vets are capable of doing. Unless said vet arrive in camp completely out of shape or with a terrible attitude.

Now the same situation in camp with a young rookie who needs to impress to win a spot. These guys are going all in and doing everything they can to prove they're better than the Nick Cousins, Jordan Weal and Nate Thompson of this world. At least they should be at 150% effort and focus and leave everything on the ice. They should be going to bed early every night, eating well, and should have done everything possible in order to maximize their chances.

Contrast the two... if the young rookie is not showing he's that much better than the vet who's taking it slow... then it's pointless to even consider him to start the season over the veteran. The young rookie should be much better and not leave us with any choice. Habs have been very open to this under Bergevin with Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Kotkaniemi, Mete, Juulsen. But these guys had to show they were better than other players in camp. And a lot of the time you go with these guys but at the end of the season they run out of juice because they're rookies, their bodies are not fully developed physically and they're not pacing their energy well over the entire season.

I don't think we're blocking guys like Evans, Suzuki, Poehling, Brook, Fleury, McCarron... these guys simply need to show they're way better than the depth guys we just acquired. They're better off getting prime minutes in the AHL if they can't do that. Perhaps they can jump in later during the season if we're disappointed with our current vets or if we have injuries.

 

[Runner77]

Mb maybe did a favour to Nick’s Cousins

GENIUS

You have to believe that it was principally a move to bring the family together.

 

[Hfbsux]

It doesn't affect payroll, but that's not really important when we're 10 million under the cap. It affects the value of all assets in the pool that are competing for the same spots.

Not sure if I follow. Where is the value in 4th liners? We can get 4th rd picks for a guy like dlo? What if he's better than all our 4th liners? Which is very likely.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

That puzzles me. You'd rather watch an awful middle 20ies player who already had his chance with 2-3 other teams than a right now awful kid we drafted that might or might not develop. Mean that's something. My mind is blown.

Who said anything about an awful mid twenties player? If that is the case then the homegrown kids must be real clown shoes if they can't take a roster spot from them.

The best players make the team.......that is it. It is unreasonable to allow for some sort of emotional privilege towards a player to play a part in roster moves. Bringing in new players only blocks worse players from playing in the lineup.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

In camp, veterans tend to take it slow, prepare themselves for the upcoming season, slowly get into gear. This is because they have nothing to prove. Management knows exactly what these vets are capable of doing. Unless said vet arrive in camp completely out of shape or with a terrible attitude.

Now the same situation in camp with a young rookie who needs to impress to win a spot. These guys are going all in and doing everything they can to prove they're better than the Nick Cousins, Jordan Weal and Nate Thompson of this world. At least they should be at 150% effort and focus and leave everything on the ice. They should be going to bed early every night, eating well, and should have done everything possible in order to maximize their chances.

Contrast the two... if the young rookie is not showing he's that much better than the vet who's taking it slow... then it's pointless to even consider him to start the season over the veteran. The young rookie should be much better and not leave us with any choice. Habs have been very open to this under Bergevin with Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Kotkaniemi, Mete, Juulsen. But these guys had to show they were better than other players in camp. And a lot of the time you go with these guys but at the end of the season they run out of juice because they're rookies, their bodies are not fully developed physically and they're not pacing their energy well over the entire season.

I don't think we're blocking guys like Evans, Suzuki, Poehling, Brook, Fleury, McCarron... these guys simply need to show they're way better than the depth guys we just acquired. They're better off getting prime minutes in the AHL if they can't do that. Perhaps they can jump in later during the season if we're disappointed with our current vets or if we have injuries.

I mean, I'm not opposed to this signing. I just understand why some are tired of the same ol tirade/trick of signing these kind of players when it didn't do much in the Therrien era. I don't want us to miss out on the next Rich Peverley or Jonathan Marchessault simply because we preferred to play it safe or go for players with a more successful background (draft pedigree). Some players improve with experience and minutes and that's why some are not fan of these moves.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Who said anything about an awful mid twenties player? If that is the case then the homegrown kids must be real clown shoes if they can't take a roster spot from them.

The best players make the team.......that is it. It is unreasonable to allow for some sort of emotional privilege towards a player to play a part in roster moves. Bringing in new players only blocks worse players from playing in the lineup.

We'll use overall a la NHL EA Sports franchise since it'll be easier to illustrate the argument being made here. Folks are advocating they'd rather ice a 74 overall player with the potential that he reaches 79 overall with the experience he gains rather than have a 76 overall player who could MAYBE improve to a 77 overall. There's no way to justify why Logan Shaw played almost as much as Scherbak in a losing cause season.

 

[vokiel]

Not sure if I follow. Where is the value in 4th liners? We can get 4th rd picks for a guy like dlo? What if he's better than all our 4th liners? Which is very likely.

Then you will lose other 4th liners getting nothing in return or you may tip the scale for a younger player who needs ice time and then you lose a lot more in value when he busts.

 

[Hfbsux]

Then you will lose other 4th liners getting nothing in return or you may tip the scale for a younger player who needs ice time and then you lose a lot more in value when he busts.

Only younger players who will be close to make the team are Poehling and Suzuki. Would be a mistake to play them on the 4th line. A 4th round pick isnt nothing in return and let's say a team picks them in the waivers after losing their 4th line spot, who gives a crap really.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

We'll use overall a la NHL EA Sports franchise since it'll be easier to illustrate the argument being made here. Folks are advocating they'd rather ice a 74 overall player with the potential that he reaches 79 overall with the experience he gains rather than have a 76 overall player who could MAYBE improve to a 77 overall. There's no way to justify why Logan Shaw played almost as much as Scherbak in a losing cause season.

The problem with that model is that the EA example provides an actual known ceiling that the player is almost guaranteed to reach if used properly. That just isn't the case in real life and like I eluded to earlier, Weal and Cousins were very highly regarded prospects not too long ago. So let's not put a hard cap on their potential as they could be late bloomers. I think your example would be more relevant with a player like Thompson.

It is all moot anyways because if the kids are good enough they will beat out the incumbents.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

The problem with that model is that the EA example provides an actual known ceiling that the player is almost guaranteed to reach if used properly. That just isn't the case in real life and like I eluded to earlier, Weal and Cousins were very highly regarded prospects not too long ago. So let's not put a hard cap on their potential as they could be late bloomers. I think your example would be more relevant with a player like Thompson.

It is all moot anyways because if the kids are good enough they will beat out the incumbents.

As I've said, maybe it's my fault for taking more of a specific side in this battle, but I'm not opposed to either of Weal or Cousins being on the team. I think they can be good stopgaps and bring value to the team but I don't have a ton of faith in the management knowing when it's time to move on or sell high in their case. Kind of like Desharnais. I have less problems with these players than the likes of L. Shaw and Murray/Bouillon.

 

[LaP]

Who said anything about an awful mid twenties player? If that is the case then the homegrown kids must be real clown shoes if they can't take a roster spot from them.

The best players make the team.......that is it. It is unreasonable to allow for some sort of emotional privilege towards a player to play a part in roster moves. Bringing in new players only blocks worse players from playing in the lineup.

History proves it's not true.

 

[Le Tricolore]

History proves it's not true.

When? The Habs generally let the best players at camp stick around, barring a couple of exceptions (Gallagher looked very good at 19, but he was certainly not ready yet).

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

As I've said, maybe it's my fault for taking more of a specific side in this battle, but I'm not opposed to either of Weal or Cousins being on the team. I think they can be good stopgaps and bring value to the team but I don't have a ton of faith in the management knowing when it's time to move on or sell high in their case. Kind of like Desharnais. I have less problems with these players than the likes of L. Shaw and Murray/Bouillon.

It looks like MB is doing a better job of targeting players that still have untapped potential and discarding them quickly if they aren't working out. Byron, Weal and Kulak are positive examples and I believe that Cousins is in the same mould. The jury is still out on Reilly, Folin and Olofsson but Rychel, Shinkaruk etc were quickly deemed to not be worthy of a spot on the big club and are out of the organization.

We haven't had much legitimate talent in Laval for a while so this season will be interesting when injuries inevitably set in.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

History proves it's not true.

That is definitely not true

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

When? The Habs generally let the best players at camp stick around, barring a couple of exceptions (Gallagher looked very good at 19, but he was certainly not ready yet).

In Gallagher's case he went to the AHL and earned a promotion in only 36 minor league games.

 

[Le Tricolore]

In Gallagher's case he went to the AHL and earned a promotion in only 36 minor league games.

No, that was the lockout year. I'm talking about the year before. I remember him being very good at camp, and may have been among the final cuts.

 

[LaP]

When? The Habs generally let the best players at camp stick around, barring a couple of exceptions (Gallagher looked very good at 19, but he was certainly not ready yet).

There's many examples and i wont go thru all of them. Two notable names are Ron Hainsey and Francois Beauchemin. Both far superior to Patrick Traverse and Karl Dykhuis. Michel Therien and Claude Julien were the coaches back then. Two very familiar coach names. Another one would be Craig Conroy. Koivu was ready to be a 2nd line center. Damphousse could have been moved back to wings (position he played in 92-93) and Conroy could have taken the 3rd line center spot which he was perfect for. It's too soon to know if we did any mistakes lately. Time will tell.

 

[Le Tricolore]

There's many examples and i wont go thru all of them. Two notable names are Ron Hainsey and Francois Beauchemin. Both far superior to Patrick Traverse and Karl Dykhuis. Michel Therien and Claude Julien were the coaches back then. Two very familiar coach names.

if you want to use an example for nearly 20 years ago, go for it.

 

[LaP]

if you want to use an example for nearly 20 years ago, go for it.

I said history proves. History implies past.

He said the best players make the team and that's it. Like if it was some sort of immutable truth. There's many examples proving otherwise. Experience is clearly valuable in this league and i don't really understand what is to prove here. Always has been and always will be.