Post-Game Talk: Habs lose 5-2 to the Flyers and it is entirely Le Tricolore's fault

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

What about his shot? Does that get any better over time?

I mean, not everyone can be a goal scorer from the blue line. Petry has a good shot. Would you say the lack of a shot precludes him from being first pairing?

I'm much more concerned to see if he can raise his offensive IQ, to see if he can create plays on a more consistent basis.

 

[sandviper]

thats a tad harsh.....we didn’t trade Sergachev for John Scott.....he’s still on pace for a very good offensive season and we are flirting with the playoffs

I’d go as far as saying we should’ve gotten something better.....

What is tough to swallow is it was us actually that had to give up more (the second round pick we had to add conditionally, which we ended up keeping).

 

[Runner77]

What is tough to swallow is it was us actually that had to give up more (the second round pick we had to add conditionally, which we ended up keeping).

Plus we gave up a valuable expansion draft slot. Drouin needed to be protected but not Sergachev. Tampa was loaded, they were afforded an extra protection slot. Brilliantly played by Yzerman.

 

[Miller Time]

Six points in 39 NHL games for Mete this season. No goals in 88 NHL career games.

When a player possesses offensive acumen, he typically shows it before the 88 game mark. I don't know, he's much more likely to remain a one-way player.

Context is important... Mete, imo, is showing more than enough to keep reasonable expectation that he can be a very solid offensive contributor from the back end.

I still see a rafalski ceiling in him, 40+ pt top pairing dman... If he's able to keep his confidence up, bc I also think he's not going to hit his prime till his late 20's.

Rafalski, as a comparison, didn't play in the NHL until he was 25... Smallish, smart, no shot, strong skater, tough but no physical game... Very similar profiles. Patience will be required and could provide great payoff

 

[Miller Time]

Plus we gave up a valuable expansion draft slot. Drouin needed to be protected but not Sergachev. Tampa was loaded, they were afforded an extra protection slot. Brilliantly played by Yzerman.

Yzeeman was playing chess while MB was still trying to figure out the instructions for checkers.

 

[scrubadam]

Sucks to lose this one, but still took 3 out of 4 in 2 B2B situations and got 6 points.

We have an easy bounce back game against ARZ before the AS break.

After the AS break we get a good run agains ANA/WPG/TOR/TBL /NSH. Thats going to be a tough stretch in Feburary so better bank the points before then.

 

[Otto]

Went to this game, we were seated right above where the players come out. In the third period a couple of yahoos were yelling at Price "Hey Carey go in, go in net" Price turned around and said "Shut up"... it was a thing of beauty

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Plus we gave up a valuable expansion draft slot. Drouin needed to be protected but not Sergachev. Tampa was loaded, they were afforded an extra protection slot. Brilliantly played by Yzerman.

Well... how valuable was it for us? Weren't we protecting Jordie Benn?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Well... how valuable was it for us? Weren't we protecting Jordie Benn?

It cost us the 3rd rounder we would've had for Emelin.

 

[sandysan]

Went to this game, we were seated right above where the players come out. In the third period a couple of yahoos were yelling at Price "Hey Carey go in, go in net" Price turned around and said "Shut up"... it was a thing of beauty

And I though I couldnt like Price any more !

 

[Burke the Legend]

It cost us the 3rd rounder we would've had for Emelin.

Drouin is more valuable than Sergachev.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Drouin is more valuable than Sergachev.

And this is an opinion, not a fact.

It might be a fact in a very restrained window of time, but the fact is that we don't know who will be more valuable in the next few years.

It also flies in the face of the fact that we have an immense hole on the left side of our defense and is a much bigger need than a top 6 winger primadona who takes 2 nights out of 3 off.

 

[Burke the Legend]

And this is an opinion, not a fact.

It might be a fact in a very restrained window of time, but the fact is that we don't know who will be more valuable in the next few years.

It also flies in the face of the fact that we have an immense hole on the left side of our defense and is a much bigger need than a top 6 winger primadona who takes 2 nights out of 3 off.

Can you guys with the MB hate agenda please stop pumping Sergachev up? It's embarrassing. He probably shouldn't even be in the NHL at this point when they are giving him 15 mins a game, his point pace is down too since people have figured out his PP blue line deke move. Given how heavily he is protected on a much deeper D corps I really don't think he would be solving any of our LD problems right now.

He keeps getting called a "top pairing D" by people who hate MB+Drouin and are trying to get that trade labelled as a bad one but reality is that Drouin is a proven top 6 player while Sergachev is still a prospect with a lot of question marks who is playing in the NHL now but maybe shouldn't be. They both still have upside potential. That trade was good value and MB took advantage of Yzerman's expansion draft problems, that he needed more protection slots.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Can you guys with the MB hate agenda please stop pumping Sergachev up? It's embarrassing. He probably shouldn't even be in the NHL at this point when they are giving him 15 mins a game, his point pace is down too since people have figured out his PP blue line deke move. Given how heavily he is protected on a much deeper D corps I really don't think he would be solving any of our LD problems right now.

He keeps getting called a "top pairing D" by people who hate MB+Drouin and are trying to get that trade labelled as a bad one but reality is that Drouin is a proven top 6 player while Sergachev is still a prospect with a lot of question marks who is playing in the NHL now but maybe shouldn't be. They both still have upside potential. That trade was good value and MB took advantage of Yzerman's expansion draft problems, that he needed more protection slots.

1- How did I pump Sergachev up? Please enlighten me. Ascribing other people's comments to my own only serves to diminish any argument you might bring as it shows a complete lack of objectivity and follow-up. It's a strawman argument. It's a tactic usually used by people out of arguments, that's why it diminishes anything you might say afterwards. Put yourself in my shoes. How would you react if tried to pin other people's comments and pretend you are also saying those things? Would you take me seriously afterwards?

2- You say that trade is good value and as I said before, this is a fact in a very limited window. What the trade will amount to is yet to be seen, so if you're saying that conclusively, it's just an opinion because there is no way we can even come to a conclusion.

 

[Burke the Legend]

1- How did I pump Sergachev up? Please enlighten me. Ascribing other people's comments to my own only serves to diminish any argument you might bring as it shows a complete lack of objectivity and follow-up. It's a strawman argument. It's a tactic usually used by people out of arguments, that's why it diminishes anything you might say afterwards. Put yourself in my shoes. How would you react if tried to pin other people's comments and pretend you are also saying those things? Would you take me seriously afterwards?

2- You say that trade is good value and as I said before, this is a fact in a very limited window. What the trade will amount to is yet to be seen, so if you're saying that conclusively, it's just an opinion because there is no way we can even come to a conclusion.

You started talking about the problems with LD, implying the trade matters in that context, as in Sergachev would help with LD issues. Well he wouldn't because he is bad right now. Also leaving out that we also had bigtime offensive problems last season, and in that context picking up a skilled 50-60 point young forward helped filled a need. No he's no perfect but that does contribute to scoring depth which was severely lacking but now is pretty good at 5 on 5 (PP another story...)

And yes I like to evaluate a trade like this in the present and immediate future, because trying to project out potential and upside 5 years is just silly. When comparing two young first round picks, progress is from prospect/fringe NHLer to established impact player is very important and Drouin is miles ahead, he has accomplished this while Sergachev has not, that matters, a lot.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

You started talking about the problems with LD, implying the trade matters in that context, as in Sergachev would help with LD issues. Well he wouldn't because he is bad right now. Also leaving out that we also had bigtime offensive problems last season, and in that context picking up a skilled 50-60 point young forward helped filled a need. No he's no perfect but that does contribute to scoring depth which was severely lacking but now is pretty good at 5 on 5 (PP another story...)

And yes I like to evaluate a trade like this in the present and immediate future, because trying to project out potential and upside 5 years is just silly. When comparing two young first round picks, progress is from prospect/fringe NHLer to established impact player is very important and Drouin is miles ahead, he has accomplished this while Sergachev has not, that matters, a lot.

Again, you're limiting my own comment by your own whims. Where have I ever stated that wanted Sergachev to help the left side immediately?? You created this constraint as if that's what I said. Another strawman, you're arguing a self-created argument. It's becoming tiresome to debate on this site because of this tendency that a lot of posters have.

Our problem with the left side is not just in the immediate. It's a problem that'll remain for the foreseeable future. A need that is much bigger, again, than a primadona winger.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Sergachev is turning into a Gardiner, Heavy offensive with almost no Defensive plays, high Turnover even with stacked partners and been healthy scratches because of his defensive game.

He will scores 50+ but he isn't even doing the Tampa lineup with all his poor plays. Not sure I would have want a Defensive unreliable guy like that with Petry and Reilly.

 

[nhlfan9191]

You started talking about the problems with LD, implying the trade matters in that context, as in Sergachev would help with LD issues. Well he wouldn't because he is bad right now. Also leaving out that we also had bigtime offensive problems last season, and in that context picking up a skilled 50-60 point young forward helped filled a need. No he's no perfect but that does contribute to scoring depth which was severely lacking but now is pretty good at 5 on 5 (PP another story...)

And yes I like to evaluate a trade like this in the present and immediate future, because trying to project out potential and upside 5 years is just silly. When comparing two young first round picks, progress is from prospect/fringe NHLer to established impact player is very important and Drouin is miles ahead, he has accomplished this while Sergachev has not, that matters, a lot.

Drouin is a complete diva. We need defenseman who can move the puck for the future and we threw away a top 10 pick coming off an exceptional year in junior for a primadona who burnt every bridge he could with his former team. On top of that, we gave him over $30 million dollars for a years experience in the NHL. Bergevin wasn’t the one taking advantage, Yzerman was.

 

[1909]

Drouin is a complete diva. We need defenseman who can move the puck for the future and we threw away a top 10 pick coming off an exceptional year in junior for a primadona who burnt every bridge he could with his former team. On top of that, we gave him over $30 million dollars for a years experience in the NHL. Bergevin wasn’t the one taking advantage, Yzerman was.

I think both players have weaknesses. Drouin is not and won't be a first line winger (on a long term), and Sergachev is not a top-pairing d-man. But BOTH can look awesome at some point. Consistency is their Achille's heel.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I think both players have weaknesses. Drouin is not and won't be a first line winger (on a long term), and Sergachev is not a top-pairing d-man. But BOTH can look awesome at some point. Consistency is their Achille's heel.

I’m not saying Sergachev is going to be a top pairing player forsure, but judging the consistency of a 20 year old defenseman is impossible. Forwards mature and hit their prime at a much younger age. The potential for Sergachev had much higher value then a complimentary winger.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I’m not saying Sergachev is going to be a top pairing player forsure, but judging the consistency of a 20 year old defenseman is impossible. Forwards mature and hit their prime at a much younger age. The potential for Sergachev had much higher value then a complimentary winger.

Kid has 4 points and +1 in his last 5 games. Naturally as 20 year old dman, he's a WIP.

 

[Burke the Legend]

Again, you're limiting my own comment by your own whims. Where have I ever stated that wanted Sergachev to help the left side immediately?? You created this constraint as if that's what I said. Another strawman, you're arguing a self-created argument. It's becoming tiresome to debate on this site because of this tendency that a lot of posters have.

Our problem with the left side is not just in the immediate. It's a problem that'll remain for the foreseeable future. A need that is much bigger, again, than a primadona winger.

You keep accusing me of "strawmanning" but all you do is ignore what you wrote. This is getting "tiresome" to have to keep reminding you.

Up here on this very page I said Drouin is more valuable than Sergachev and your reply to that was that statement "...flies in the face of the fact that we have an immense hole on the left side of our defense", implying Sergachev would somehow fix that need. Well Sergachev would not fix that in any way, but we did also have an immense hole up front in scoring ability, which the Drouin acquisition actually has helped to fix when a prospect was traded for a top 6 forward.

The problem was Alzner and Schlemko were supposed to fill the LD spots as reliable vets but both flamed out of the NHL so it's kind of back to the drawing board for a plan to fix that. The good news is that the Habs have cap space and can try again with a cheap vet pick-up while hoping youth grow quickly into bigger minutes and harder assignments.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

You keep accusing me of "strawmanning" but all you do is ignore what you wrote. This is getting "tiresome" to have to keep reminding you.

Up here on this very page I said Drouin is more valuable than Sergachev and your reply to that was that statement "...flies in the face of the fact that we have an immense hole on the left side of our defense", implying Sergachev would somehow fix that need. Well Sergachev would not fix that in any way, but we did also have an immense hole up front in scoring ability, which the Drouin acquisition actually has helped to fix when a prospect was traded for a top 6 forward.

The problem was Alzner and Schlemko were supposed to fill the LD spots as reliable vets but both flamed out of the NHL so it's kind of back to the drawing board for a plan to fix that. The good news is that the Habs have cap space and can try again with a cheap vet pick-up while hoping youth grow quickly into bigger minutes and harder assignments.

IN THE LONG TERM, he would fill a need, much more than Drouin ever will.

You're still using a strawman, still limiting his impact and need in the immediate, as if that was what I stated when I didn't infer ANYTHING about whether it's for the present or future. YOU DECIDED TO MAKE IT ONLY ABOUT THE PRESENT BECAUSE THAT'S ALL YOU CAN ARGUE AGAINST.

Let's stop this right here. Y0u're right, what I wrote was that Sergachev would help the team immediately. So now your fantasy can meet reality and you can quit wasting my time.

 

[Burke the Legend]

IN THE LONG TERM, he would fill a need, much more than Drouin ever will.

You're still using a strawman, still limiting his impact and need in the immediate, as if that was what I stated when I didn't infer ANYTHING about whether it's for the present or future. YOU DECIDED TO MAKE IT ONLY ABOUT THE PRESENT BECAUSE THAT'S ALL YOU CAN ARGUE AGAINST.

Let's stop this right here. Y0u're right, what I wrote was that Sergachev would help the team immediately. So now your fantasy can meet reality and you can quit wasting my time.

Yes I like to evaluate more on the near term because when you decide to start projecting some classic hfboards "upside and potential" on a guy like Sergachev it is just a silly fantasy. Then you insist based on these fantasy upside projections that might manifest sometime in the next 3-5 years (a realistic possible learning curve for a D-man who is not defensively gifted, assuming he even has the mental capacity to learn - many don't), that he's more valuable than a guy not too much older who is an established top 6 winger. That's just laughable.

 

[Kunta Kinte]

Because he is one of the laziest players I have ever watched. Skills mean nothing when you have no compete level!

And you said the same thing about Pacioretty, Galchenyuk. Kovalev, Kostitsyn etc.. Thats why we cant have nice things in MTL... Just grinders.