News Article: Habs hires Team 33 (new pro scouting service)

[JianYang]

Unless they have some sort of exclusivity with the Habs, I don't see much of a competitive advantage arising from this.

What is to stop the other resource rich teams in the league from being able to access the same intel?

 

[Captain Mountain]

Its not analytics, See my brief summary above.

It actually is analytics, just analytics of data collected using the eye test. Its grading players in different areas of the game/tools and giving them a WAR-like ranking using a proprietary algorithm.

Most teams that take data seriously aren't going to be too interested since they collect stuff like that already and would rather have access to the raw data than what Team 33 provides. HuGo inherited a team with no real analytics group and haven't been able to build that group or their scouting departments yet. So this kind of deal makes sense to them.

 

[cphabs]

Very interesting...
Progressive thinking for sure.
Can you post the article, it wont let me access it............assuming you have to pay to have the Athletic?

Progressive? It’s more conservative when you acknowledge statistical data and risk management when making a choice.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Unless they have some sort of exclusivity with the Habs, I don't see much of a competitive advantage arising from this.

What is to stop the other resource rich teams in the league from being able to access the same intel?

I don't tink it's an advantage or a disadvantage per se, it's just more raw intel to work with. It's really all about how you use it in the end and if the people in charge are more prone to making the right decision or not.

 

[Skip Bayless]

We can now blame a company instead an individual for f***ing up a trade

 

[BLONG7]

Progressive? It’s more conservative when you acknowledge statistical data and risk management when making a choice.

Progressive compared to the gong show of the past 10 years, is what I was leaning towards...

 

[WeThreeKings]

Bench press scores included?

 

[Captain97]

If it only coats 100 grand and the info is useful why wouldn't the Habs use it. We pay our good AHLers more than that.

 

[salbutera]

I wonder which other NHL teams are using the service.

There were a few but many stopped using it because their own analytics groups were able to do as much or more, and many questioned the value of “publicly available data” re: data that’s made available to all NHL teams that sign up (no competitive advantage)

 

[dinodebino]

Saying that the data is useless because it’s made for all teams just goes to show how backward-minded are some of the GMs.

Getting data from different sources is pertinent. I mean, they haven’t worked for an intelligence agency and it shows.

 

[First Line]

If it only coats 100 grand and the info is useful why wouldn't the Habs use it. We pay our good AHLers more than that.

Exactly, it’s just more data can’t hurt to know more. Our own GDT’s also provide useful data so maybe we could sell those at 10k a pop!

 

[MasterD]

Four NHL teams, including Montreal and Anaheim. Its $100k per year. They employ 18 scouts worldwide.

NHL teams can filter things like, give me all the centers below 25 with a Team 33 score above XYZ worldwide. Then scout the players themselves. Its intended to complement an NHL team's scouting team.

Weird business model. That's 400k$ in yearly revenue to pay for 18 scouts + management, travel fees, etc. Unless all they is watch games on TV...

 

[Captain Mountain]

Saying that the data is useless because it’s made for all teams just goes to show how backward-minded are some of the GMs.

Getting data from different sources is pertinent. I mean, they haven’t worked for an intelligence agency and it shows.

Its more an accessibility thing. Which isn't entirely accurate, as most teams aren't going to fork over 100k a year for the info.

The bigger reason to question the use the data is not knowing the logic behind how the data is graded or how the algorithm was designed (or tested). But its a logical way for a team like Montreal (deep pockets/need to act quicker than building a front office allows) to move quickly and get more information.

 

[Habs]

do they include Karakter and Kompete in the score?

 

[WinterLion]

Sounds like having a hockey card graded...

I just like that the team is looking for more info and trying to be as informed as possible.

 

[Whitesnake]

My bad. I pay for the service so I thought I'd share it for once. Didn't think of the rule.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Unless they have some sort of exclusivity with the Habs, I don't see much of a competitive advantage arising from this.

What is to stop the other resource rich teams in the league from being able to access the same intel?

For the moment, only 4 teams are using that scouting service, according to The Athletic.


A quote about how it works.

At the heart of the service Santos is offering is the “Team 33 Value”, an all-encompassing overall score attributed to each player that incorporates his performance on the ice, the scouting reports, his salary, his age, his injury history, his progression curve, etc. A multitude of elements goes into creating a maximum score of 993. Any player above 850 is considered elite, a typical top-6 forward will rate at around 500, a role player at around 150, and an AHL player will be somewhere around 60.

Team 33 creates this score for every player that is on an NHL reserve list, and they also determine how a given player in another league might perform in the NHL. A player in the SHL that Team 33 gives a score of 175, for example, could be expected to be a role player for an NHL team.

 

[cphabs]

We can now blame a company instead an individual for f***ing up a trade

So progressive…

 

[jrom]

Well they may not pick the best prospect but they’re clearly doing everything they can do make the best informed decision.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

We can now blame a company instead an individual for f***ing up a trade

It's only data, itdoesn't decide anything

Bench press scores included?

This is the Marty era, we're now looking at leg press scores!

 

[FLHabs]

Could this just be used a stop gap until they full fill out their analytics department? Either way, having unbiased outside opinions is never a bad thing, good move imo.

 

[Sorinth]

Weird business model. That's 400k$ in yearly revenue to pay for 18 scouts + management, travel fees, etc. Unless all they is watch games on TV...

Haven't they just started. It seems normal that it would take time for them to turn a real profit. Though I could see an argument for some media to also get a subscription, does EA still do an NHL game, because frankly them spending 100K and using that as their player data is probably worth it for them, especially since it includes Euro teams for GM modes.

Really for teams there's no reason not to spend 100K and get what is essentially a 2nd opinion on all your potential trades.

 

[sandviper]

Progressive compared to the gong show of the past 10 years, is what I was leaning towards...

We went from dinosaur coaching, little to no analytics and skills development to a more modern thinking approach. We got the resources, we need to be using it to acquire as many tools as we can.

Doesn't guarantee success, but it certainly makes us a lot more proactive rather than reactive. Or, in the case of the Bergy era, riding on the coat tails of Carey Price.

 

[ReginaHabs]

Could this just be used a stop gap until they full fill out their analytics department? Either way, having unbiased outside opinions is never a bad thing, good move imo.

I think it’s a bit of both—it gives them some additional time/space to fill out their analytics and scouting teams how they like, along with a chance to see if the service provides additional value on its own. If they renew in two years we’ll know they found it a useful complement to their internal data.

 

[FLHabs]

I think it’s a bit of both—it gives them some additional time/space to fill out their analytics and scouting teams how they like, along with a chance to see if the service provides additional value on its own. If they renew in two years we’ll know they found it a useful complement to their internal data.

Yea, makes sense. What a breath of fresh air HuGo have been hehe