Habs defense what needs to be fixed?

That Habs Fan

Registered User
Nov 29, 2008
9,381
1,825
Toronto
IF we keep the same d corps, Emelin has to be moved to the left to help his skating/awareness

Emelin-Subban
Markov-Gorges
Beaulieu-Weaver
Tinordi

I could live with that
 

Habs 4 Life

No Excuses
Mar 30, 2005
41,036
4,831
Montreal
I like the guy, but if Gorges can bring back a decent return I'd move him. If the Canucks are having a firesale I'd try for Bieksa, make him take Gorges spot, sign Markov and sign Weaver 1 year. Weaver could do the job Gorges does for a 1/3 of the price
 

Leon Lucius Black

Registered User
Nov 5, 2007
15,820
5,546
Re-sign Weaver but give a good chance to Beaulieu and Tinordi to end up being full time NHLers by the end of next year going into the playoffs. Each pairing with a puck mover and at least one guy who's able to play physical.

Gorges - Subban
Markov - Tinordi
Beaulieu - Emelin
 

MSLs absurd thighs

Formerly Tough Au Lit
Feb 4, 2013
9,427
4,280
I like the guy, but if Gorges can bring back a decent return I'd move him. If the Canucks are having a firesale I'd try for Bieksa, make him take Gorges spot, sign Markov and sign Weaver 1 year. Weaver could do the job Gorges does for a 1/3 of the price

Bieksa is exactly, EXACTLY the kind of guy this D lineup is missing.
 

OldCraig71

Registered User
Feb 2, 2009
35,155
54,969
No one cares
I like the guy, but if Gorges can bring back a decent return I'd move him. If the Canucks are having a firesale I'd try for Bieksa, make him take Gorges spot, sign Markov and sign Weaver 1 year. Weaver could do the job Gorges does for a 1/3 of the price

I would love to have Bieksa in a habs jersey, that's the kind of guy we need and I agree with moving Gorges for a young forward with good upside and size.
 

Frank JT

Registered User
Feb 8, 2014
1,363
438
Could look like that in october :

Emelin - Subban
Markov - Nygren
Gorges - Weaver
Beaulieu - Pateryn - Tinordi

We want yound players for next year. The transition for the future.
If everything goes well, one D will probably have to go somewhere else in 2014-2015
 

CGG

Registered User
Jan 6, 2005
4,136
55
416
Replace Markov.

Option # 1 - sign Niskanen instead
Option # 2 - acquire Edler from Vancouver for Plekanec (add picks on either side).

VAN is trading Kesler, they could use a #2 center in return.

Re-sign Weaver.
Beaulieu and Tinordi as # 5 & # 7 guys.

Done.
 

JoelWarlord

Registered User
May 7, 2012
6,145
9,420
Halifax
Need a #4 with mobility and puck skills on the right side. Raphael Diaz type.

Biggest issue with the D is Emelin. Subban, Markov, Gorges is fine as a top 3.
 

MathMan

Registered User
Jan 20, 2006
17,555
0
First thing they need is a breakout scheme and more structure. They were systematically either throwing the puck up the boards or throwing it to an empty area, and the Rangers feasted on such predictability. That in my mind is the number one problem facing the Habs.

The number two problem is zone entries -- all that dumping and chasing leads to the opponent having the puck more, which leads to the team defending more, which leads to defensive breakdowns. Hockey's not a two-mode game, and part of the reason the Habs had such trouble on defense is because they also had lots of trouble on offense (and vice-versa).

Personnel-wise they need a good, mobile, skilled top-4 RD, and that's their foremost personnel need. Emelin was unable to fulfill the role they gave him. He might have done better on his good side, but he has to be considered a trading piece at this point (his size, thwackiness and KHL credentials will make him attractive to gullible GMs). The Habs would have been better-served using Diaz in that role, really, but ideally they need to do better than that.

Better personnel usage wouldn't hurt. The most positive thing about the playoff run may be the change in narrative around Subban's maturity. Maybe they'll stop yanking the chain on the team's best player now and actually use him like the elite D-man he is. Not populating the third pairing with pylons wouldn't hurt either.

One big key to a strong team and what makes the top Western team so good is how much skill and mobility they have on the blueline. The Habs should build towards that model and avoid the trap of the "stay-at-home defenseman". Many of them are actually pretty crappy and get carried by a superior puck-mover. The offensive/defensive "complementary" pairing is a trap.

But if they don't have a good structure, they can put whoever they want back there and they'll keep sucking. The coach needs to change the tactics or the GM needs to change the coach.
 

JayKing

Go Habs Go
Dec 30, 2011
15,234
418
Montreal
Replace Markov.

Option # 1 - sign Niskanen instead
Option # 2 - acquire Edler from Vancouver for Plekanec (add picks on either side).

VAN is trading Kesler, they could use a #2 center in return.

Re-sign Weaver.
Beaulieu and Tinordi as # 5 & # 7 guys.

Done.

I like this plan but Niskanen will probably be asking for too much.
 

Andy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2008
31,806
15,588
Montreal
He seems to be a right sided guy... Cash isn't too bad. Only problem is he's always hurt.

He's also 32, will be turning 33 in a couple of weeks. If the playoffs showed anything, the Habs need fresh legs on D. A couple of vets is fine, but I want the Canadiens to move past having 3 of their top 6 defenders 30 and older.

My guess is Weaver and Markov will be back and I don't see Gorges being traded unless he asks for one. Even if Gorges is moved, I'd like to the Canadiens get younger and more mobile.
 

Leon Lucius Black

Registered User
Nov 5, 2007
15,820
5,546
i don't think Gorges is a top 4 anymore.

He just played over 20 minutes a game every game in the playoffs and was huge on the PK for a team that was 2 wins away from the finals, he's not a top pairing defenseman but he's definitely a very solid top 4 guy.
 

coolasprICE

Registered User
Mar 7, 2008
10,028
142
Montreal
Gorges is overpaid and takes too much space on this team. The fact that his name gets thrown around for captaincy is scary. He should be a bottom pairing d-man (or healthy scratch) but he'll never be one as long as he's on this team. Zero offensive creativy, weakest shot in the NHL.. yes I know he's not paid to do that but even Hal Gill or Weaver can wire the puck if needed.
 

yianik

Registered User
Jun 30, 2009
10,692
6,134
First thing they need is a breakout scheme and more structure. They were systematically either throwing the puck up the boards or throwing it to an empty area, and the Rangers feasted on such predictability. That in my mind is the number one problem facing the Habs.

The number two problem is zone entries -- all that dumping and chasing leads to the opponent having the puck more, which leads to the team defending more, which leads to defensive breakdowns. Hockey's not a two-mode game, and part of the reason the Habs had such trouble on defense is because they also had lots of trouble on offense (and vice-versa).

Personnel-wise they need a good, mobile, skilled top-4 RD, and that's their foremost personnel need. Emelin was unable to fulfill the role they gave him. He might have done better on his good side, but he has to be considered a trading piece at this point (his size, thwackiness and KHL credentials will make him attractive to gullible GMs). The Habs would have been better-served using Diaz in that role, really, but ideally they need to do better than that.

Better personnel usage wouldn't hurt. The most positive thing about the playoff run may be the change in narrative around Subban's maturity. Maybe they'll stop yanking the chain on the team's best player now and actually use him like the elite D-man he is. Not populating the third pairing with pylons wouldn't hurt either.

One big key to a strong team and what makes the top Western team so good is how much skill and mobility they have on the blueline. The Habs should build towards that model and avoid the trap of the "stay-at-home defenseman". Many of them are actually pretty crappy and get carried by a superior puck-mover. The offensive/defensive "complementary" pairing is a trap.

But if they don't have a good structure, they can put whoever they want back there and they'll keep sucking. The coach needs to change the tactics or the GM needs to change the coach.

Yes, getting out of our zone was terrible. Our guy , under pressure , would lose the puck on the forecheck or would chip it past that 1st forechecker only to have it picked off by another Ranger. Didnt see any system at work. Rangers on the other hand had composed looking Ds chipping it up to a backchecking forward who would then go up ice with it. Easy.

I also agree that mobility is so important. However, I think you need to try for the mobile guys who have size and physicality as well. I don't mean monster size guys or the meanest guy in the league, but hitting and clearing the front of the net are things defencemen have to do.
 

MathMan

Registered User
Jan 20, 2006
17,555
0
I don't mean monster size guys or the meanest guy in the league, but hitting and clearing the front of the net are things defencemen have to do.

Frankly I think this is also a trap. Hitting only has real value if it separates the guy from the puck; it's a tool, not an end. Hitting can be very useful, but hitting for the sake of hitting is pointless.

As for "clearing the front of the net", I see a lot of talk about that and not a lot of actual value. The better strategy is to prevent dangerous shots in the first place. If you push and fight with a guy in front of the net, you're risking making the screen worse (how often has Murray screened his own goalie?) And on the PP, if a team wants to plant a guy in front of your net, let them. That strategy never works well because PPs are about puck movement, and by sacrificing a guy to serve as a screen they really are turning into a 4-on-4; that's easier to defend.

You can more effectively defend a screened shot by denying the shot rather than denying the screen.
 

Bourne Endeavor

Registered User
Apr 6, 2009
38,212
6,870
Montreal, Quebec
Replace Markov.

Option # 1 - sign Niskanen instead
Option # 2 - acquire Edler from Vancouver for Plekanec (add picks on either side).

VAN is trading Kesler, they could use a #2 center in return.

Re-sign Weaver.
Beaulieu and Tinordi as # 5 & # 7 guys.

Done.

Thing is, Vancouver is very likely to want Beaulieu or Tinordi alongside Plekanec, even if that obviously ups the asking price on their end too. Someone needs to replace Edler and Corrado isn't necessarily there yet. Personally, I do think it would be worth it because Edler paired with Subban would be a phenomenal duo.

He's also 32, will be turning 33 in a couple of weeks. If the playoffs showed anything, the Habs need fresh legs on D. A couple of vets is fine, but I want the Canadiens to move past having 3 of their top 6 defenders 30 and older.

My guess is Weaver and Markov will be back and I don't see Gorges being traded unless he asks for one. Even if Gorges is moved, I'd like to the Canadiens get younger and more mobile.

While older, Bieksa has shown little worse for wear and actually put up one of his better seasons despite Torts' grueling system. Problem was, he eventually wore down due to Torts' over utilization. He worked Bieksa more than Therrien depended on Markov, which slowly became an issue. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised what Bieksa would bring. That said, he seemed adamant in going down the Canucks. So I do not see him traded.
 

Habs 4 Life

No Excuses
Mar 30, 2005
41,036
4,831
Montreal
I'm all for Tinordi and Beaulieu playing regualry next season, even if that means losing a few more games.

You earn experience by playing

There should be room, Bouillon and Murray should be gone for good

Weaver is the only ?. 2 spots should be open, how much ice time they will get is another story
 

Andy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2008
31,806
15,588
Montreal
While older, Bieksa has shown little worse for wear and actually put up one of his better seasons despite Torts' grueling system. Problem was, he eventually wore down due to Torts' over utilization. He worked Bieksa more than Therrien depended on Markov, which slowly became an issue. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised what Bieksa would bring. That said, he seemed adamant in going down the Canucks. So I do not see him traded.

I'd still look somewhere else. The habs clearly need a younger minute-eater who can handle being over-utilized. Gorges and Markov looked gassed the whole third round. I don't want the same story with Bieksa. Also, 33 for a defender is getting there. I'd prefer the team not trade the assets to get him considering it probably won't be a long investment.
 

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