Post-Game Talk: Habs defeat the Caps in OT

[morhilane]

I've probably been the most vocal critic of MSL's system, or lack thereof I should say, but I am starting to see some positives.

We look like a counterattacking team, because we don't have the horses, the other team is going to drive play for 75% of the game without us touching the puck, but as long as we have finishers on every line, we should be able to score a couple goals a game on the rush.

I'm just not sure if this is better or worse entertainment than the games we have watched for the past decade. We aren't playing the trap, but we also aren't touching the puck AT ALL. I would be very interested in seeing possession stats from all of our games if the NHL even tracks that. As a team we are terrible at passing, it is basically just Suzuki who can complete a pass in the offensive zone, and occasionally Matheson can get a puck out of the D-zone, we rely on the other team messing up to go on the rush.

People say "at least MSL makes the games exciting, I'd rather lose 6-5 than win 2-1". I can see how someone would think that, but so far the games really haven't been exciting this year. I hate watching these guys chase the puck around for 60 minutes hoping to get a counterattack goal.

NHL website has SAT (all type of shot attempts, include blocked, Corsi is derived from this) and outShoot/OutShoot By.

The Habs are 16th league wide in SAT (all situations) right now. 6th when tied. 10th when ahead. 26th when behind. Pretty much looks like 1st period, 2n period and 3rd period...

Habs are 29th for shots for and 7th for shots against (bad) per game. Which makes them 25th on the comparative stats.

They are are the worst in giveaway per 60 in the league...

The Habs are actually very awful this season start, but a few teams are actually worst...

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

NHL website has SAT (all type of shot attempts, include blocked, Corsi is derived from this) and outShoot/OutShoot By.

The Habs are 16th league wide in SAT (all situations) right now. 6th when tied. 10th when ahead. 26th when behind. Pretty much looks like 1st period, 2n period and 3rd period...

Habs are 29th for shots for and 7th for shots against (bad) per game. Which makes them 25th on the comparative stats.

They are are the worst in giveaway per 60 in the league...

The Habs are actually very awful this season start, but a few teams are actually worst...

This basically confirms my suspicions that we can't complete a pass or touch the puck to save our lives, which I do think would be negated somewhat by better coaching

 

[yianik]

I've probably been the most vocal critic of MSL's system, or lack thereof I should say, but I am starting to see some positives.

We look like a counterattacking team, because we don't have the horses, the other team is going to drive play for 75% of the game without us touching the puck, but as long as we have finishers on every line, we should be able to score a couple goals a game on the rush.

I'm just not sure if this is better or worse entertainment than the games we have watched for the past decade. We aren't playing the trap, but we also aren't touching the puck AT ALL. I would be very interested in seeing possession stats from all of our games if the NHL even tracks that. As a team we are terrible at passing, it is basically just Suzuki who can complete a pass in the offensive zone, and occasionally Matheson can get a puck out of the D-zone, we rely on the other team messing up to go on the rush.

People say "at least MSL makes the games exciting, I'd rather lose 6-5 than win 2-1". I can see how someone would think that, but so far the games really haven't been exciting this year. I hate watching these guys chase the puck around for 60 minutes hoping to get a counterattack goal.

A non possession team is one that dumps and chases all the time and I don't see that with us. We want to bring the puck up ice and attack, all the while keeping possession. As you say, the horses aren't quite there. I did see a shift where Dach, Slaf and Newhook cycled the puck for well over a minute, was beautiful. Wad looking forward to more, and then...

Anyway, we are a possession team that can't keep possession.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

A non possession team is one that dumps and chases all the time and I don't see that with us. We want to bring the puck up ice and attack, all the while keeping possession. As you say, the horses aren't quite there. I did see a shift where Dach, Slaf and Newhook cycled the puck for well over a minute, was beautiful. Wad looking forward to more, and then...

Anyway, we are a possession team that can't keep possession.

Then we need to change the strategy lol

I haven't seen any sustained offensive zone time this season, which includes the powerplay

 

[morhilane]

A non possession team is one that dumps and chases all the time and I don't see that with us. We want to bring the puck up ice and attack, all the while keeping possession. As you say, the horses aren't quite there. I did see a shift where Dach, Slaf and Newhook cycled the puck for well over a minute, was beautiful. Wad looking forward to more, and then...

Anyway, we are a possession team that can't keep possession.

Under Julien/Ducharme, they were focusing on North/South rushes play with zero efforts put into manipulating defenders without using only speed. The forwards who remains from that era still mostly play with that mindset and some of them just don't have the abilities to do otherwise.

 

[Kimota]

As soon as the opposite team start to put pressure in the dzone, the Habs breaksdown defensively.

This is due to players playing in over their heads (the team has no real 1st paid dmen right now), lack of confidence for some, lack of communication and just old habits taking over.

I may be wrong but it feels like a lack of structure. Maybe the old school guys like Julien are not so bad after all. Lindsay Ruff seems to be still be doing well.

 

[morhilane]

I may be wrong but it feels like a lack of structure. Maybe the old school guys like Julien are not so bad after all. Lindsay Ruff seems to be still be doing well.

MSL is all about structure, so it's execution failure, mostly because of lack of communication between the players (and old habits. For example, Slaf isn't as bad this season, but last year he was doing many things that were part of his Liiga team systems).

Also, MSL concepts+positionless hockey doesn't work well with players who have poor IQ/awareness unless players communicate a lot. A coach like Julien/Therrien will manage to get more out of the grinders because their systems are designed around them.

 

[Kimota]

MSL is all about structure, so it's execution failure, mostly because of lack of communication between the players (and old habits. For example, Slaf isn't as bad this season, but last year he was doing many things that were part of his Liiga team systems).

Also, MSL concepts+positionless hockey doesn't work well with players who have poor IQ/awareness unless players communicate a lot. A coach like Julien/Therrien will manage to get more out of the grinders because their systems are designed around them.

Perhaps but the Habs problems right now is a lack of defensive coverage and being stuck in their zone. Craig Ramsey for instance was saying that for Slaf to do well, he basically did not bog him down with defensive play and let him go to the offense. So maybe MSL let his guys go too much to the offense without thinking the defensive aspect. When you have a defensive system, all the guys need to focus on it so the structure is more rigid and you have less offensive freedom. I guess it depends on what you want.

 

[morhilane]

Perhaps but the Habs problems right now is a lack of defensive coverage and being stuck in their zone. Craig Ramsey for instance was saying that for Slaf to do well, he basically did not bog him down with defensive play and let him go to the offense. So maybe MSL let his guys go too much to the offense without thinking the defensive aspect. When you have a defensive system, all the guys need to focus on it so the structure is more rigid and you have less offensive freedom. I guess it depends on what you want.

Habs changed a bit their dzone "system" this season. It is clearly still a work in progress (in the AHL too). But the part where they turtle up and start to look like chickens with out heads, that's the players panicking, not part of the system.

 

[Habssince89]

We already heard MSL say that they weren't even practicing the PP because they were prioritizing ES play. So could it be similar that MSL is trying to work out the offensive zone play first and then shore up defense as the team progresses. I don't know if doing things this way is the right way, but if this is what they're doing then it does help the draft pick without stifling the growth of offensive players.

It's going to be interesting to see if/when this team hits it's stride in the season and shows us glimpses of what could come for 3-5 games at a time. I'm sure there won't be a time where we are on the bubble standings wise, but I am hoping for these little streaks to bring down some of the unnecessary negativity.

 

[yianik]

Under Julien/Ducharme, they were focusing on North/South rushes play with zero efforts put into manipulating defenders without using only speed. The forwards who remains from that era still mostly play with that mindset and some of them just don't have the abilities to do otherwise.

Most are limited skill guys. Guys like that should probably play north -south dump it in kind of game. Problem is when you tell the skill guys to play that way. Imagine Crosby being told to play the same game as a 4th liner.

We have no Crosby , but our top 6 and a guy or two on the bottom 6, as well as a couple of our D , should try to play a possession game and actually try to do something with the puck other than willingly throw it away and then try to get it back.
- -

 

[The Real Timo]

Most are limited skill guys. Guys like that should probably play north -south dump it in kind of game. Problem is when you tell the skill guys to play that way. Imagine Crosby being told to play the same game as a 4th liner.

We have no Crosby , but our top 6 and a guy or two on the bottom 6, as well as a couple of our D , should try to play a possession game and actually try to do something with the puck other than willingly throw it away and then try to get it back.
- -

I bet Crosby was told to play dump and chase when he was coached by Michael Therrien. I’m not sure how that worked out hockey-wise but Crosby is definitely a much better person for it.

 

[admiralcadillac]

This basically confirms my suspicions that we can't complete a pass or touch the puck to save our lives, which I do think would be negated somewhat by better coaching

Better coaching allows players to complete passes better?

 

[Habssince89]

Better coaching allows players to complete passes better?

what do you think coaches are coaching?

 

[G0bias]

Monahan with CC and Suzuki is a no-brainer.

Besides there isn't enough talent in the lineup to make 3 "good" lines. Let's start by icing 2 first lol.

 

[Redux91]

It's kind of pathetic that we are keeping Primeau in the press box to never play just because they are worried he will get claimed. If nobody will even give us a 5th round pick for him, just waive him and let him get on with his career.

I think the problem is more of a "trying to trade Jake Allen" situation than it is a "worrying about primeau getting claimed" one honestly

Monahan with CC and Suzuki is a no-brainer.

Besides there isn't enough talent in the lineup to make 3 "good" lines. Let's start by icing 2 first lol.

Let's start with.. 1 first lol

 

[ReHabs]

Better coaching allows players to complete passes better?

What do you think is meant by the word 'plays' (as in 'set plays') and 'schemes'? What do you think is meant by the word 'tactics'?

Players go to designated areas which makes it easier for the puck-carrier to know when and how to make a pass.

That's coaching, not even coaching 101 but the fundamental notion of coaching.

 

[Runner77]

Anyone remember which poster made this sweet design? I bought it off of red bubble and have been rocking this t-shirt for years now.

Attachments​

• 

The earliest version of this image appeared in 2017. There are several more with different color configurations.

All of those images have a common feature -- they all contain the letters "mig" in their link references.

The author of your sweet design would appear to be Moen Is Gone (formerly Moen In Glory).

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

NHL website has SAT (all type of shot attempts, include blocked, Corsi is derived from this) and outShoot/OutShoot By.

The Habs are 16th league wide in SAT (all situations) right now. 6th when tied. 10th when ahead. 26th when behind. Pretty much looks like 1st period, 2n period and 3rd period...

Habs are 29th for shots for and 7th for shots against (bad) per game. Which makes them 25th on the comparative stats.

They are are the worst in giveaway per 60 in the league...

The Habs are actually very awful this season start, but a few teams are actually worst...

It does help when you play the mighty Washington and Chicago 2 bottom 5 team this season who the habs almost threw in those 2 games.

They better wake the f*** up because before xmas they are gonna play half a season of nothingness once again , injuries can excuse so much.

 

[BLONG7]

It does help when you play the mighty Washington and Chicago 2 bottom 5 team this season who the habs almost threw in those 2 games.

They better wake the f*** up because before xmas they are gonna play half a season of nothingness once again , injuries can excuse so much.

There are a ton of chances, where the habs pass the puck, and should be shooting.......Caufield is the only guy on the team with the shoot first mentality...
That said, losing Dach is nothing short of huge, but fortunately they have Newhook.
Still think as the year moves along they will be a better version of themselves from last year..............still drafting top 10 again.

If they can settle the injury bug, I think they will still have some good games this year, and entertain us more than the last 5-6 seasons....

 

[ReHabs]

There are a ton of chances, where the habs pass the puck, and should be shooting.......Caufield is the only guy on the team with the shoot first mentality...
That said, losing Dach is nothing short of huge, but fortunately they have Newhook.
Still think as the year moves along they will be a better version of themselves from last year..............still drafting top 10 again.

If they can settle the injury bug, I think they will still have some good games this year, and entertain us more than the last 5-6 seasons....

I think with Dach gone we're actually a lesser team than last year if you don't take injuries into account.

Imagine Dach is replaced with Newhook... who replaced Drouin and Hoffman? Both were about 0.5ppg (and not very good otherwise, but nonetheless). As funny as it is, we're missing such production! So ultimately our performance as a team depends on (1) season-long impact of a healthy Caufield and (2) the internal year-on-year growth of individual players (Slafkovsky, Harris, Xhekaj, etc.) and (3) a surprise like maybe Joshua Roy.

My point is to agree with you, it seems like we will be drafting top10 unless any of the three factors above really turn things around.

 

[Tyson]

Good question Allen on the road Monty at home in the B2B.

And Primeau is left out to dry. Just waive him already. Give him a chance to resume his career.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Perhaps but the Habs problems right now is a lack of defensive coverage and being stuck in their zone. Craig Ramsey for instance was saying that for Slaf to do well, he basically did not bog him down with defensive play and let him go to the offense. So maybe MSL let his guys go too much to the offense without thinking the defensive aspect. When you have a defensive system, all the guys need to focus on it so the structure is more rigid and you have less offensive freedom. I guess it depends on what you want.

NHL history is full of long minutes being hemmed in when a defensively average or weak winger is played on his wrong wing. MSL does this with multiple players. The result has been predictable.

 

[Runner77]

And Primeau is left out to dry. Just waive him already. Give him a chance to resume his career.

Habs spent years developing him, I can appreciate not giving him away for nothing. Primeau has access to all the same resources as his teammates, so he’s not exactly languishing.

We all know how Hughes operates. He’ll strike when the opportunity is right. Primeau will get his due but only after the Habs get theirs. I’m a Habs fan first and foremost and want to know what’s in it for the Habs before finding out how Primeau will personally benefit.

 

[FloJack]

The earliest version from this image appeared in 2017. There are several more with different color configurations.

All of those images have a common feature -- they all contain the letters "mig" in their link references.

The author of your sweet design would appear to be Moen Is Gone (formerly Moen In Glory).

Of course! And a bit newer than I thought. Thank you!