Post-Game Talk: Habs' big guns all scored as they win 3-0 vs Colorado

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

yikes actual whiteknights

Drouin is now god because he landed a pass, lol
painful to read

 

[Kriss E]

We obviously are not rebuilding, so that part i don't agree with you. But i agree with the "take one direction and go for it" part. It's all about building. Would Marner be as good without Matthews? Would Matthews be as good without Marner?

Since Weber's is back, if we look at starters in the NHL (13+ games played...Price has 18)
Price is 92.5%, 1st in the NHL.......2.17 GAA also 1st in the NHL.
The best D for scoring goals are Petry (1st) and Weber (2nd tied with Burns)

Arguments that raise his value, perfect for trading him.

If a 1st round pick is that valuable and get you a guy like Weber or Price or Petry or Tatar.......why don't build from this and WE trade our 1st round pick to get another guy to back them up (Not talking about rentals here)?

Because those guys are aging and we have too many holes, but hey, if we are done rebuilding via draft then sure, trade the 1st+prospects. But Bergevin isn't going to that. He said in his press conference that he isn't mortgaging the future, he knows teams will call for the prospects from WJC and he isn't moving them. He also said he's not moving anything for a rental.
So we have to wait for a team who's willing to trade a contracted player for crap returns like Hudon+2nd..
But personally, I'd have no problem moving a Romanov and Poehling if it gets us serious help right now.

The question is really: Do we still have one of the best goalie in the game?
Since Weber is back...we do. Built from there. Add from there. Don't wait for a pick that will take 3 to 4 years to make his impact when it will be too late and that's IF they ever made an impact and don't turn into a Beaulieu or McCarron.

Again, all the more reason to trade him. He won't be the best forever, he's on the wrong side of 30 and already often is injured.
We've tried to build from the back end with Markov-PK, that failed. I guess....let's do it again.

I understand we're far from competing on paper with Toronto , but don't tell me we were any better on paper when we had Desharnais, Plekanec as top 6 center and Weise/Briere/Parenteau/Bourque/Gionta on our top 6. Still why we made it to the ECF, top of our division?

IF we were rebuilding, those top players should have been traded last summer and Weber wouldn't have get the C.

Our defense was much better back then, and yes actually, I think we were better. I think Domi and Drouin add points to their total but they aren't playing very well. I don't see this team being pulled forward like it was in 12-13 and in 13-14 POs. We will see if that changes later on, but so far, I'd pick the 13-14 edition over our current one, no doubt about it.

 

[jaffy27]

Why are stick n Toronto? I never brought up Toronto as en example to follow. But since you insist on breaking my balls with Toronto......Bernier was with the team BEFORE they traded their cornerstones/made their rebuild. PAP was signed in order to let Marner in the minors and not play him as a 18yo, make the team worst and get assets at the TDL....and that's something MB could have done instead of forcing guys like Mete and Kotkaniemi in the NHL and having 8M$ sitting there doing nothing. But it makes the team more competitive, something Toronto wasn't looking for.

As for your question, well they traded the 2 faces of the franchises who was at the time Phaneuf and Kessel. JVR , Kadri, Gardiner and Rielly were pretty young at the time.....and i'm not advocating trading young guys either. Not even advocating to do what Toronto did.

Now....Pacioretty did asked for a trade, right? So i'm no inventing anything when i'm saying it wasn't part of Bergevin's plan, unless he planned for Pacioretty asking for a trade.



So Bergevin never said that he wouldn't get help at the TDL...only said that he wouldn't mortgage the future for rentals and he did say he'll do something if the price is right. 2 days ago he also said that he would do and i quote: "Hockey trade all day long" but just not into big rentals for big price. You invented the part that he wouldn't do anything at all. But then again, it's something that Bergevin has been doing and saying since day 1, so nothing new.

And as for Bergevin didn't commit big $$$ to big UFA, we all know he tried to, just not succeed.

A retool and a rebuild isn't the same thing at all.
And they also had 16 picks in 2012-2013....was it a rebuild?

Then nobody really ever rebuilds as this would consist of tearing down the entire team and trading everyone that’s not on an entry level contract.

There’s a reason nobody does a full rebuild, it doesn’t work!! Who do the players learn from?? You can’t have 23 players under 22 on your team, it doesn’t happen and it certainly doesn’t work.

My example of Toronto was to highlight how a retool is done. It’s widely known that they rebuilt (retooled) their team, everyone in Canada knows that, but as you saw, they didn’t trade every single piece they had, they kept some veteran leadership to lead the way. It’s how it’s done.....so keeping Price and Weber is not a we’re all in message to the world.

As for your last statement, was that team a cap team for 2 years straight or were they 7-8m$ under the cap like we’ve been doing?

Of course Bergevin will make a trade if it makes sense for the team, my point was he’s not making any moves at deadline as in short term solutions. You knew what I meant, didn’t think I’d have to explain in full detail that if he has a chance to aquire a good player that’s young and under team control he’d pull the trigger.

Anyways, I’m gonna go play Settlers of Catan with my kid....good night everyone!!

 

[Sterling Archer]

Of course it never occured to you that I don't care about the other part of your posts or your whole other posts, cause well you probably never noticed that I barely talk about Price or Weber and I don't talk trades very often, in your infinite wisdom you did not notice either that's this isnt my cup of tea. I know you never tought of it but there's this thing here, this fantastic thing here that gives us the possibility to talk only about the things we want, you're allowed to skip whole paragraph and whole posts you think are irrelevant. It is actually so damn true I didnt even bother reading all the stuff you quoted, nope, I stopped after the bolded. Too much B.S.

as for the important stuff well, it seems important to YOU, it may have never occured to you but, some people do not give a **** about important parts of your posts.


I gotta say though, your ability to put different posts from different posters one after another and add your own stuff after it is amazing, I am quite impressed. I hope you are proud of it cause that is really something.

bravo!

Oh good. So you admit you cherry picked a small part of a larger one of my posts, ignored anything that didn’t fit your narrative, distorted it to try and make YOUR point, out of any context and you’re proud of it. Super job there! Thumbs up!

Now do someone who cares.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

yikes actual whiteknights

Drouin is now god because he landed a pass, lol
painful to read

Imagine the day he'll score a hat trick.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Oh good. So you admit you cherry picked a small part of a larger one of my posts, ignored anything that didn’t fit your narrative, distorted it to try and make YOUR point, out of any context and you’re proud of it. Super job there! Thumbs up!

Now do someone who cares.

Cute.

 

[ECWHSWI]

20/21 the year of reshaping

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Imagine the day he'll score a hat trick.

dont think u can score 3 empty nets in 1 game

 

[sergejean]

A buddy of mine was at the game and said the Habs completely dominated Colorado except for a few moment in the 1st and 3rd period. Here are a couple of observations he shared with me...

Drouin: the best defensive player last night as he was consistently cutting the lanes and rushing the other team to make bad plays
Mete: very mobile but lacks offensive abilities so he doesn't create much chances
Reilly: Impressive with the offensive talent and ability to drive offense.
Armia: the best offensive player last night... retrieves the puck and finds a way to involve a teammate to continue pressing

 

[Kriss E]

Philly has Hart who has 0.916 and Elliot at .911 but are desperate for Price at .910 and 0.900 last 2 years? Alright...

Hell ya they'd take Price on. Was that supposed to be an argument against or for me??

Team vs individuals. Nashville was closer to a floor team than a cap team during Weber's time there.

So?
Point is teams can trade younger talent for older vets.

Well J-To won a selke, a conn smyth and 3 cups. Even if last bit is team based, the first 2 aren't.

You think J-To wins a conn smyth if he played for Arizona? But again, so what? You're talking about a player who cracked 70pts once almost a decade ago and isn't as skilled.

 

[Kriss E]

But that's the whole point.

You're trading a player with concrete immediate value for the right to pick a prospect who can go one of three ways. Not live up to the value you just traded, have the same value or be of higher value. As we saw with the last 10 years worth of #1s your chances of getting a player of better value are 10 to 20%. One or two players in 10 draft years were of higher value than P.K.

Sure 1st OV picks have value. Mostly imagined. The Webers, Prices, PKs have immediate, concrete value very little of it imagined.

It was 10% to you, which was a very harsh percentage that you obviously put that low just for argument sakes. Suggesting Tavares and Stamkos are clearly not better than Subban is pure BS. Shrugging off Matthews as a maybe..loll Dude. Please.

But again, for the 3rd time, that was not the point. The point is a #1 OV pick has a very high trade value. Whether you should move a roster player for it now or not is an entire different discussion and mostly depends on what player+which team.

 

[Milhouse40]

Then nobody really ever rebuilds as this would consist of tearing down the entire team and trading everyone that’s not on an entry level contract.

There’s a reason nobody does a full rebuild, it doesn’t work!! Who do the players learn from?? You can’t have 23 players under 22 on your team, it doesn’t happen and it certainly doesn’t work.

My example of Toronto was to highlight how a retool is done. It’s widely known that they rebuilt (retooled) their team, everyone in Canada knows that, but as you saw, they didn’t trade every single piece they had, they kept some veteran leadership to lead the way. It’s how it’s done.....so keeping Price and Weber is not a we’re all in message to the world.

As for your last statement, was that team a cap team for 2 years straight or were they 7-8m$ under the cap like we’ve been doing?

Of course Bergevin will make a trade if it makes sense for the team, my point was he’s not making any moves at deadline as in short term solutions. You knew what I meant, didn’t think I’d have to explain in full detail that if he has a chance to aquire a good player that’s young and under team control he’d pull the trigger.

Anyways, I’m gonna go play Settlers of Catan with my kid....good night everyone!!

A rebuild for me is when you changed some\most core players and face of the franchise for future. Rangers did it last year and yes Toronto did that too. Not really about the time they spend or the numbers of players they traded. It's about changing the make up of the team. Look at Boston .Quick retool...traded Lucic, Hamilton and got futures but kept the face of the franchise in Bergeron, Chara, Marchand.....i think Bergevin try to mimic this.

 

[Milhouse40]

Arguments that raise his value, perfect for trading him.


Because those guys are aging and we have too many holes, but hey, if we are done rebuilding via draft then sure, trade the 1st+prospects. But Bergevin isn't going to that. He said in his press conference that he isn't mortgaging the future, he knows teams will call for the prospects from WJC and he isn't moving them. He also said he's not moving anything for a rental.
So we have to wait for a team who's willing to trade a contracted player for crap returns like Hudon+2nd..
But personally, I'd have no problem moving a Romanov and Poehling if it gets us serious help right now.


Again, all the more reason to trade him. He won't be the best forever, he's on the wrong side of 30 and already often is injured.
We've tried to build from the back end with Markov-PK, that failed. I guess....let's do it again.



Our defense was much better back then, and yes actually, I think we were better. I think Domi and Drouin add points to their total but they aren't playing very well. I don't see this team being pulled forward like it was in 12-13 and in 13-14 POs. We will see if that changes later on, but so far, I'd pick the 13-14 edition over our current one, no doubt about it.

Most goalies have tbeir best seasons well past 30.
Look at Fleury or Rinne go (Anderson, Thomas...hell even Halak)....some goalies only starts their NHL career at 28-29. More scared with Weber tho...

If Price still can play like he did in the last 20ish games, i would prefer to build on him unless that trade you're talking about has a major return.....and i'm talking about Marner or 1st/2nd pick overall type of return. But that's if Price is still the man....have to wait a little and it's not on a bad year with the worst defense in the NHL that Price should be judge for. If you get like a 17th overall pick + mid prospect for him + middle NHL roster, it's beyond terrible.

That's the main question for me and to really know that...Bergevin had to put a real defense in front on him to see it and that's even if the plan would be to trade him and Weber.

But honestly, i just think talking about trading those two is like talking about getting Tavares or Karlsson...it's just not going to happens. Not while the GM who traded for Weber and just made him the C and sign Price to a massive deal.

As i said to you before....the rebuild you want can only happen when Bergevin will finally be fired.

 

[Kimota]

I can't really take the credit. It was a drunked group effort where I spent 90% of the time on my *** cracking dwarf jokes at my vertically challenged friend. It's a schtik we have. He cracks jokes about my manhood, and I say to stop or I'll cancel the dwarve strippers.

Is your name happen to be Varys by any chance?

 

[GHJimmy]

I've been very impressed with Benn the last 20 games! Hes been amazing, defensively, although offensively he isnt going but hes making chances and shutdown player! I'm liking him better than his brother

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Is your name happen to be Varys by any chance?

lol crap hadn't thought about the similarity

I do still have my manhood.

 

[Kriss E]

Most goalies have tbeir best seasons well past 30.
Look at Fleury or Rinne go (Anderson, Thomas...hell even Halak)....some goalies only starts their NHL career at 28-29. More scared with Weber tho...

If Price still can play like he did in the last 20ish games, i would prefer to build on him unless that trade you're talking about has a major return.....and i'm talking about Marner or 1st/2nd pick overall type of return. But that's if Price is still the man....have to wait a little and it's not on a bad year with the worst defense in the NHL that Price should be judge for. If you get like a 17th overall pick + mid prospect for him + middle NHL roster, it's beyond terrible.

I never argued Price couldn't play well. I think he still is very good and valuable, hence me suggesting we get Philly's first in a trade for him.
I think he can be good for a few years...35+ though is a mystery, especially considering he gets injured every year.

That's the main question for me and to really know that...Bergevin had to put a real defense in front on him to see it and that's even if the plan would be to trade him and Weber.

We had a pretty good defense in front of him in 14-15 and he won every trophy he could win during regular season. That didn't do us much good in the end.

But honestly, i just think talking about trading those two is like talking about getting Tavares or Karlsson...it's just not going to happens. Not while the GM who traded for Weber and just made him the C and sign Price to a massive deal.

Of course, I don't think it will happen either. I just said that's what we should be doing, but arguing with posters who are suggesting otherwise.
I don't think anybody here thinks Bergevin will trade Price or Weber.

As i said to you before....the rebuild you want can only happen when Bergevin will finally be fired.

And as I told you, the rebuild you want won't happen with Bergevin here either.
He is a terrible GM, he's not going to build us into a contender.

 

[Runner77]

A rebuild for me is when you changed some\most core players and face of the franchise for future. Rangers did it last year and yes Toronto did that too. Not really about the time they spend or the numbers of players they traded. It's about changing the make up of the team. Look at Boston .Quick retool...traded Lucic, Hamilton and got futures but kept the face of the franchise in Bergeron, Chara, Marchand.....i think Bergevin try to mimic this.

We're supposed to be in a "reset".

Now that we've had more than half a season's worth of whatever this is, what would you say is the difference between this "reset" and the rebuilds you've seen?

 

[Kriss E]

A rebuild for me is when you changed some\most core players and face of the franchise for future. Rangers did it last year and yes Toronto did that too. Not really about the time they spend or the numbers of players they traded. It's about changing the make up of the team. Look at Boston .Quick retool...traded Lucic, Hamilton and got futures but kept the face of the franchise in Bergeron, Chara, Marchand.....i think Bergevin try to mimic this.

All we need is our Pastrnak..Bergeron...and Marchand, then we be golden...as long as we can also add a Krug or McAvoy.

 

[ECWHSWI]

We're supposed to be in a "reset".

Now that we've had more than half a season's worth of whatever this is, what would you say is the difference between this "reset" and the rebuilds you've seen?

wait for the reassesment year, 2021-2022!!

IT IS happening boys! better be ready! WOOOHOOOOOO!

 

[Runner77]

wait for the reassesment year, 2021-2022!!

IT IS happening boys! better be ready! WOOOHOOOOOO!

Who knows how many more intangible buzzwords we'll have racked up by then.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Who knows how many more intangible buzzwords we'll have racked up by then.

scary part ? how many of these buzzword fans will start using as if they meant anything...

 

[Doc McKenna]

Radulov only started playing a good NHL game around what? 28? Drouin is 23 and has alot of time to grow and if he doesnt fit in the plans then he is a huge trade chip.

Yeah thats not alwasy the case. See Beaulieu, Tinordi, etc. Or how about Wade Reddin. He likely won't fall into that group, but you missed the point. If you want to build a good team you need to go all in or not move assets for at best null sum trades.

This year will show the same problem. Do we move guys who will not have a higher value than now, petry byron etc. Or we trade our second for an OK 3rd liner for 2 months to miss the playoffs by 2 points or get swept first round. Habs continue to be in the worst spot possible for making a good team.Sink or head for the shore, treading water does nothing.

 

[nhlfan9191]

A buddy of mine was at the game and said the Habs completely dominated Colorado except for a few moment in the 1st and 3rd period. Here are a couple of observations he shared with me...

Drouin: the best defensive player last night as he was consistently cutting the lanes and rushing the other team to make bad plays
Mete: very mobile but lacks offensive abilities so he doesn't create much chances
Reilly: Impressive with the offensive talent and ability to drive offense.
Armia: the best offensive player last night... retrieves the puck and finds a way to involve a teammate to continue pressing

Drouin hasn’t been the best defensive player in any game dating back to his days in Halifax. You may want to suggest glasses to your friend.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Radulov only started playing a good NHL game around what? 28? Drouin is 23 and has alot of time to grow and if he doesnt fit in the plans then he is a huge trade chip.

do you remember wich NHL team Radulov was playing for at 28 ?