News Article: Guy Lafleur: Brendan Gallagher should be MTL's next captain

[Cole Caulifield]

The Boston trade was a terrible one. They finished two seasons at #13 in the East. So ya, they did miss a beat actually.
He went to the West where there's a multitude of strong teams. Alfredsson had the same reputation as Thornton, he was also called a bad captain because he had never lead the Sens anywhere. Then he lead them to a Final. That was the only year the Sens did anything significant in the POs.

Koivu was a monster. I think his leadership skills were better than Thornton, but he wasn't more skilled.
Maybe without that knee injury and cancer, he could have been an elite player. Unfortunately, we'll know.

Did I ever say that ?

 

[PricePkPatch*]

Gallagher was our best player in that last game. He was flying out there.

Case closed. Gally 4 captain.

*cough* best scorer on the team 3 playoffs in a row *cough*

 

[DAChampion]

I can see management giving the C to Desharnais.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I can see management giving the C to Desharnais.

Was tin foil on special?

 

[Scintillating10]

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/h...an-gallagher-should-be-next-canadiens-captain

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/lafleur-gallagher-should-be-canadiens-captain/

My vote goes to Gally aswell, not having a smurf captain who doesnt play hard every game doesnt feel right anyways. Hes everything you'd want in a captain (if you can overlook his age).

He's very young

 

[Mrb1p]

Agreed. But best since lafleur? Richer man

Richer was a 50 goal scorer in a league where a rookie scored 76 and players routinely scored 50. 6 players scored 50 or more that year... I hardly believe that that one time he scored 50 in a year where scoring was up by a mile makes him better than Pacioretty.

Only worthy captain in my eyes was Koivu.

Thing is, everyone sees him as a marginal player because he played on the worst montreal teams of all time. He was the lone bright spot in a sea of crap. And he had to suffer through knees injuries, eye gouging and cancer on top of it. Despite that, he still found ways to outshine a prime Joe Thornton who had better linemates. That tells you all you need to know about Koivu's heart, skill and character.

Replace Plek or DD with a prime Koivu and we would have done some damage this season. We have had bad timing as a franchise lately.

Koivu in his prime was one of the best center in the league. He was probably a top 15 center in the league in his best years, he was a true number one no matter what people make him out to be.

Koivu never outplayed Joe Thornton. Where did you get that idea? And Joe wasn't in his prime when he was a rookie on Boston either.

Joe Thornton is maybe twice the player Saku Koivu ever was.

Joe Thornton is the best forward of his generation, but that doesn't take anything away from Saku. Show some pride.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

And Koivu was also playing with an injury in 2003-04 and Thornton had better linemates.

And Koivu was coming back from Cancer in 2001-02 and outplayed a 100% healthy Thornton with better linemates.

Thornton is a guy who doesn't have another gear and can't step up his game in the playoffs. Just like Plekanec, and so far Pacioretty.

Why do you think he was traded for a terrible package of Marco ****ing Sturm+crap ? Boston didn't even miss a beat, and SJ never got anywhere with Thornton. And his own GM is coming out against him now in the medias. Never seen anything like it. He's a big choker.

Did I ever say that ?

Koivu in his prime was one of the best center in the league. He was probably a top 15 center in the league in his best years, he was a true number one no matter what people make him out to be.

Joe Thornton is the best forward of his generation, but that doesn't take anything away from Saku. Show some pride.

Comparing a young Joe Thornton (on a mismanaged team) to an in-prime Saku Koivu over tiny, unrepresentative spans of 5-7 games at a time is patently irrational and absurd. If you take a step back and look at their careers you'll notice that as Joe grew into his frame he was eventually a top5/top10 player in the league and, frankly, in another league compared to diminutive Saku Koivu.

Cancer really took a lot out of Koivu, sure, but that doesn't somehow make JOE fkn THORNTON a lesser player. Even if he scores at a reduced pace in the playoffs, which makes all the sense in the world, Joe's "choking" is still better than Koivu's best all things considered.

 

[Forsead]

Comparing a young Joe Thornton (on a mismanaged team) to an in-prime Saku Koivu over tiny, unrepresentative spans of 5-7 games at a time is patently irrational and absurd. If you take a step back and look at their careers you'll notice that as Joe grew into his frame he was eventually a top5/top10 player in the league and, frankly, in another league compared to diminutive Saku Koivu.

Cancer really took a lot out of Koivu, sure, but that doesn't somehow make JOE fkn THORNTON a lesser player. Even if he scores at a reduced pace in the playoffs, which makes all the sense in the world, Joe's "choking" is still better than Koivu's best all things considered.

I disagree, Thornton this season was 35 years old, his stats in the playoffs are :

132 gp, 24 g, 76 a, 100 pts for a 0.76 PPG

Koivu's stats at the same age (before he really started to decline) :

60 gp, 17 g, 38 a, 55 pts for a 0.92 PPG

Also, Koivu played on worst teams with worst players. I really don't see how this is close. Thornton may be a much better regular season player, but he's a playoff choker contrary to Koivu being a playoffs warrior.

 

[Doc McKenna]

I disagree, Thornton this season was 35 years old, his stats in the playoffs are :

132 gp, 24 g, 76 a, 100 pts for a 0.76 PPG

Koivu's stats at the same age (before he really started to decline) :

60 gp, 17 g, 38 a, 55 pts for a 0.92 PPG

Also, Koivu played on worst teams with worst players. I really don't see how this is close. Thornton may be a much better regular season player, but he's a playoff choker contrary to Koivu being a playoffs warrior.

THIS, and talk about leaving it all on the ice. No one else even close. The year him and begin went down to injury the whole team collapsed. Says how much he led the way and why we called him captain clutch. Patches is like thornton is pretty much anti clutch. I think people forget that patches had an open net and I think one other gimme type goal. SO he really did squat in this years playoffs.

I don't think Subban should be captain at all, a good A, but hardly captain. Gally is closer to what I think a good captain is even if he isn't a monster .I think eller has more playoffs points than him. esp given roles, BUT that will never happen given MTs hatred of the guy.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I disagree, Thornton this season was 35 years old, his stats in the playoffs are :

132 gp, 24 g, 76 a, 100 pts for a 0.76 PPG

Koivu's stats at the same age (before he really started to decline) :

60 gp, 17 g, 38 a, 55 pts for a 0.92 PPG

Also, Koivu played on worst teams with worst players. I really don't see how this is close. Thornton may be a much better regular season player, but he's a playoff choker contrary to Koivu being a playoffs warrior.

Further exacerbated by the fact that Thornton has all the tools and skills to have done so much more. Koivu had to go through so much more adversity too with the eye gouging, cancer and knee injuries.

Every single outside factor was in favor of Thornton to be better than Koivu in the playoffs and he wasn't and has never been. But that is what I'm talking about when I say Koivu outshined Thornton.

Thornton is a fantastic regular season player. But that's it. No second gear. Some players are like that.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I disagree, Thornton this season was 35 years old, his stats in the playoffs are :

132 gp, 24 g, 76 a, 100 pts for a 0.76 PPG

Koivu's stats at the same age (before he really started to decline) :

60 gp, 17 g, 38 a, 55 pts for a 0.92 PPG

Also, Koivu played on worst teams with worst players. I really don't see how this is close. Thornton may be a much better regular season player, but he's a playoff choker contrary to Koivu being a playoffs warrior.

I find it hilarious that Koivu is even coming close to Thornton's goal totals in less than half the games played. Koivu wasn't a goal scorer either. He was playmaker.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Thornton is a fantastic regular season player. But that's it. No second gear. Some players are like that.

My point exactly. Thornton's fantastic regular seasons beat the crap out of anything and everything Koivu's ever done in his entire career.

I've dealt with cancer in my life and in my family, I get the stigma and have also seen how awful it is trying to return to normalcy after chemo and radiation. I get that Koivu did a herculean task by coming back and doing what he did... but he was a pretty mediocre player overall beyond the cancer. We have to learn to separate the two dimensions.

You guys are ignoring the fact that Thornton's been in OVER DOUBLE the number of playoff games as Koivu. Hmm, maybe that's hint #1. That when the Koivu-era Habs were good, it had a LOT to do with Kovalev and Souray and Markov and the attention they drew - Joe is targeted by other teams' shut down guys, Koivu was just one of four or five middling players. There was never really a time where Koivu carried the team or was the sole target to be shut down.

Clutchness doesn't exist to the degree everybody likes to think it does. Talent and drive, that's all it is. Maybe Joe and Koviu have different gears but Joe's talent crushes Koivu and Joe's career accomplishments, even as a captain, embarasses Koivu's.

The Koivu Habs never made it past the 2nd round, the Joe Sharks made the WCF multiple times. More individual accolades, more team accolades too. It's not even close. Furthermore, the late Koivu-era lockerroom was divided and, frankly, awful for rookies and foreign players. Koivu and his buddies didn't do much to help it either... Mr. Traditions Bob fkn Gainey DIDNT OFFER KOIVU A CONTRACT BUT OFFERED KOVALEV ONE. MAYBE THAT IS A HINT THAT HE WORE OUT HIS WELCOME? MAYBE?

Sheesh.

I liked watching him when I was a kid but call a spade a spade, he's just not that good and his career wasn't ever that good either.

 

[ottawa]

Gallagher is captain material but by bypassing one of the assistants that we currently have would send the wrong message to the guys currently wearing a letter.

This is professional sports, not high school.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Richer was a 50 goal scorer in a league where a rookie scored 76 and players routinely scored 50. 6 players scored 50 or more that year... I hardly believe that that one time he scored 50 in a year where scoring was up by a mile makes him better than Pacioretty.

I'll take Richer at his best any day. 50 goals in 72 games was awesome.

Problem was the mental illness... he suffered from depression and was inconsistent from season to season. It's a shame that mental ilness wasn't better understood back then because too many just wrote him off as being whiny.

He had all the tools to be a major star and before Michael Thelvien's stick shot to his thumb he was on his way to a dominant playoff run. He was absolutely incredible and on a whole other level than Paccioretty. Richer (when he was on) was the man. And I think without that broken thumb we would've won the cup in '88. He was all over the ice and killing the Bruins that series. I don't think he had that many points early on but he was the best player on the ice. Anyways, it wasn't meant to be.

Some more background on him here: http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news...ses-his-battle-with-depression/comment-page-1

 

[Cole Caulifield]

My point exactly. Thornton's fantastic regular seasons beat the crap out of anything and everything Koivu's ever done in his entire career.

For me the playoffs is where players actually establish themselves. That is probably why we don't see eye to eye on this. Thornton can score 4000 pts in one regular season but if he does nothing in the playoffs it simply doesn't mean jack ****.

I've dealt with cancer in my life and in my family, I get the stigma and have also seen how awful it is trying to return to normalcy after chemo and radiation. I get that Koivu did a herculean task by coming back and doing what he did... but he was a pretty mediocre player overall beyond the cancer. We have to learn to separate the two dimensions.

Koivu after 30-35 games was once battling it out with Mario Lemieux for the scoring lead in the NHL, then he injured his knee, and then the team started shedding good players left and right and that was it. Koivu's legacy would be much greater now if the teams around him hadn't been so completely devoid of anything approaching talent.

You guys are ignoring the fact that Thornton's been in OVER DOUBLE the number of playoff games as Koivu. Hmm, maybe that's hint #1. That when the Koivu-era Habs were good, it had a LOT to do with Kovalev and Souray and Markov and the attention they drew - Joe is targeted by other teams' shut down guys, Koivu was just one of four or five middling players. There was never really a time where Koivu carried the team or was the sole target to be shut down.

The hint is that it was the habs dark years where we had Brian Savage, Zednik, Rucinsky, Higgins and co on our top line with Thibeault, Garon, Hacket in nets.

Clutchness doesn't exist to the degree everybody likes to think it does. Talent and drive, that's all it is. Maybe Joe and Koviu have different gears but Joe's talent crushes Koivu and Joe's career accomplishments, even as a captain, embarasses Koivu's.

Thornton doesn't embarrass anyone because he never won anything.

The Koivu Habs never made it past the 2nd round, the Joe Sharks made the WCF multiple times. More individual accolades, more team accolades too. It's not even close. Furthermore, the late Koivu-era lockerroom was divided and, frankly, awful for rookies and foreign players. Koivu and his buddies didn't do much to help it either... Mr. Traditions Bob fkn Gainey DIDNT OFFER KOIVU A CONTRACT BUT OFFERED KOVALEV ONE. MAYBE THAT IS A HINT THAT HE WORE OUT HIS WELCOME? MAYBE?

I would not use Gainey as an indicator of anything. Who knows what went through his addled mind?

I liked watching him when I was a kid but call a spade a spade, he's just not that good and his career wasn't ever that good either.

What are your memories of the 01-02 and 03-04 playoffs ? I can't believe anyone watched these playoffs and still think so highly of Thornton, and so lowly of Koivu. Thornton was 23 and 25.... that is the prime of a forward's career. And he was a dog out there. Koivu was just as injured as Thornton. Boston was coming out with the excuses after the fact because they had to.

No one will ever convince me that Joe Thornton is such an amazing player because for me, players actually prove their worth in the playoffs, not in the regular season.

This is why I feel that Plekanec HAS to go now. I can't watch him play another season with the habs. I've given him MANY chances. But he's a guy who will never be good in the playoffs. Fine regular season player, but just a no show in the playoffs

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

For me the playoffs is where players actually establish themselves. That is probably why we don't see eye to eye on this. Thornton can score 4000 pts in one regular season but if he does nothing in the playoffs it simply doesn't mean jack ****.

I actually agree, but since both players haven't won jack **** - it doesn't mean much to compare their playoff performances.

Koivu after 30-35 games was once battling it out with Mario Lemieux for the scoring lead in the NHL, then he injured his knee, and then the team started shedding good players left and right and that was it. Koivu's legacy would be much greater now if the teams around him hadn't been so completely devoid of anything approaching talent.

You're bringing up regular season here. Did you know after half a season Alex Steen was leading the league in goals? Should the Blues retire his number too?

The hint is that it was the habs dark years where we had Brian Savage, Zednik, Rucinsky, Higgins and co on our top line with Thibeault, Garon, Hacket in nets.

Thornton doesn't embarrass anyone because he never won anything.

Is Adam Burish better than Joe Thornton? No. So the absolutist approach doesn't really work, especially when it comes to JOE FKN THORNTON.

I would not use Gainey as an indicator of anything. Who knows what went through his addled mind?

If there was one thing Gainey knew, it was tradition and pomp. The fact that he didn't offer Koivu a contract and then said that it was time for a change implies that even he, dumbass GM Teflon Bob, realized Koivu's leadership in the lockerroom was toxic. And it was, so many nights where players just didn't show up to play, gave up after a goal, young players who turned to partying far too quickly. Koivu shouldn't have been the captain the last few years, simple as that.

What are your memories of the 01-02 and 03-04 playoffs ? I can't believe anyone watched these playoffs and still think so highly of Thornton, and so lowly of Koivu. Thornton was 23 and 25.... that is the prime of a forward's career. And he was a dog out there. Koivu was just as injured as Thornton. Boston was coming out with the excuses after the fact because they had to.

I remember those playoffs pretty well actually, but Joe was still young then and the Bruins were mismanaged. Joe hit his prime with San Jose. Unless you want to judge Pacioretty's career from his "peak" playoff performances at the same ages?

No one will ever convince me that Joe Thornton is such an amazing player because for me, players actually prove their worth in the playoffs, not in the regular season.

Again, you're right to a degree but Joe will be known as the greatest player to have never won a cup. Some degree of understanding should be applied.

This is why I feel that Plekanec HAS to go now. I can't watch him play another season with the habs. I've given him MANY chances. But he's a guy who will never be good in the playoffs. Fine regular season player, but just a no show in the playoffs

Agreed. Through no major misdeed of his own, it's time for Plekanec to go.

 

[CTHabsfan]

I disagree, Thornton this season was 35 years old, his stats in the playoffs are :

132 gp, 24 g, 76 a, 100 pts for a 0.76 PPG

Koivu's stats at the same age (before he really started to decline) :

60 gp, 17 g, 38 a, 55 pts for a 0.92 PPG

Also, Koivu played on worst teams with worst players. I really don't see how this is close. Thornton may be a much better regular season player, but he's a playoff choker contrary to Koivu being a playoffs warrior.

If you take away his rookie year and his injured 2004 playoffs, Thornton's line becomes 119 gp, 24 , 76 a, 100 pts for a 0.84 PPG, which are pretty good numbers for a "playoff choker".

 

[CTHabsfan]

I find it hilarious that Koivu is even coming close to Thornton's goal totals in less than half the games played. Koivu wasn't a goal scorer either. He was playmaker.

Joe Thornton has always been primarily a playmaker, not a goal scorer.

 

[yianik]

I'll take Richer at his best any day. 50 goals in 72 games was awesome.

Problem was the mental illness... he suffered from depression and was inconsistent from season to season. It's a shame that mental ilness wasn't better understood back then because too many just wrote him off as being whiny.

He had all the tools to be a major star and before Michael Thelvien's stick shot to his thumb he was on his way to a dominant playoff run. He was absolutely incredible and on a whole other level than Paccioretty. Richer (when he was on) was the man. And I think without that broken thumb we would've won the cup in '88. He was all over the ice and killing the Bruins that series. I don't think he had that many points early on but he was the best player on the ice. Anyways, it wasn't meant to be.

Some more background on him here: http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news...ses-his-battle-with-depression/comment-page-1

Patches is great in his own right, but Richer is on a different level, I loved watching him. He could just blast it in, or he could stick handle through a couple guys and boom, top shelf. For those who did not see him play, think Kovalev.

 

[Kimota]

First I think Price is the real C.

That being said, I would give it to Gally in 2 or 3 years cause he is too young right now. So in the mean time, give it to Markov with no big fanfares for 2 or 3 years. Until he retires.

But the Subban marks crack me up. They really don't get it.

 

[Tyson]

Habs roster is taking shape but they still don't have a Captain.

I am leaning towards Pacioretty. Gallagher and Subban with the A's...

Pacioretty reminds me of that quite leader that I believe is needed...

 

[mustardnight*]

I actually agree, but since both players haven't won jack **** - it doesn't mean much to compare their playoff performances.


You're bringing up regular season here. Did you know after half a season Alex Steen was leading the league in goals? Should the Blues retire his number too?



Is Adam Burish better than Joe Thornton? No. So the absolutist approach doesn't really work, especially when it comes to JOE FKN THORNTON.

If there was one thing Gainey knew, it was tradition and pomp. The fact that he didn't offer Koivu a contract and then said that it was time for a change implies that even he, dumbass GM Teflon Bob, realized Koivu's leadership in the lockerroom was toxic. And it was, so many nights where players just didn't show up to play, gave up after a goal, young players who turned to partying far too quickly. Koivu shouldn't have been the captain the last few years, simple as that.

I remember those playoffs pretty well actually, but Joe was still young then and the Bruins were mismanaged. Joe hit his prime with San Jose. Unless you want to judge Pacioretty's career from his "peak" playoff performances at the same ages?


Again, you're right to a degree but Joe will be known as the greatest player to have never won a cup. Some degree of understanding should be applied.


Agreed. Through no major misdeed of his own, it's time for Plekanec to go.

Roenick was better than Jumbo, as was Housley

 

[JV]

Probably the first time I ever agreed with Lafleur.

Subban is my choice still, but it will never happen.

Me too, but I disagree that it will never happen. It probably won't happen, but to me PK is the obvious choice for captain of this team. It's not even close. He will rise to the occasion if they give him the C.

 

[znk]

I would not give PK the C. He's way to emotional on the ice to be that guy.

 

[CanadienShark]

He rubs off a small minority of people. Most people love him for who he is and what he brings. I cant say the same for pacs.

This could be read totally wrong.