Guerin Named New Wild GM

[Riptide]

All he does is make moves as favors for other teams (like when he took Sheary and Hunwick from you (guys you needed to unload because of the cap) and put in a stip that if we flipped Hunwick we would pay a penalty). But mysteriously nobody seems willing to do favors for us. And as for the 6th round thing: multiple teams in that draft traded their 6th and they all got additional value for doing so. And we won't even get into him trading ROR for literally the 3 worst players on the entire Blues roster.

A) You're over estimating the favor there. The favor wasn't him taking Sheary, it was him taking Hunwick. Sheary despite only being a depth player was still a solid depth add for Buffalo (a team lacking in quality depth players). And we didn't need to unload both, only one. Unloading both just allowed JR to go FA shopping (something that few wanted him to do).

B) Care to give some examples? Because complaining that no one is doing anything for Buffalo while not providing examples (or pointing to big expensive contracts that BUF wants a premium for) isn't in the same realm as taking a slightly later pick (10-15 spots back) late in the draft 12 months down the line.

 

[Peat]

Jim Rutherford: Bill Guerin 'worked hard to get to this place'

Sounds like his successor might already be in the organization.

Developing internal options isn't the same as using them mind hence Rutherford being here in the first place.

 

[sabremike]

A) You're over estimating the favor there. The favor wasn't him taking Sheary, it was him taking Hunwick. Sheary despite only being a depth player was still a solid depth add for Buffalo (a team lacking in quality depth players). And we didn't need to unload both, only one. Unloading both just allowed JR to go FA shopping (something that few wanted him to do).

B) Care to give some examples? Because complaining that no one is doing anything for Buffalo while not providing examples (or pointing to big expensive contracts that BUF wants a premium for) isn't in the same realm as taking a slightly later pick (10-15 spots back) late in the draft 12 months down the line.

Yes, I'm aware Hunwick was the cap albatross we were taking back. Taking him off your hands was doing you a solid. So why did we have a clause where if we somehow flipped him we would have to pay a penalty for him?

Look at every single transaction Botts has made and point to a single one where the other GM did us a favor? The only trade he has made that he won was getting a guy who essentially wanted to go nowhere else but Buffalo because going to Toronto would've been impossible.

 

[Riptide]

Yes, I'm aware Hunwick was the cap albatross we were taking back. Taking him off your hands was doing you a solid. So why did we have a clause where if we somehow flipped him we would have to pay a penalty for him?

No, taking him off our hands was the price to get Sheary. Big difference there. And clearly this affects the rest of your views if you can't distinguish that.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

So who's our new Asst. GM?

 

[Peat]

So who's our new Asst. GM?

We don't know and may not know for a season.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I think I did Bill a favor:

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I think I did Bill a favor:

I am thinking the Pittsburgher Andy Warhol treatment would be appropriate.

 

[Malkinstheman]

And all he needs to complete the puzzle is JJ!

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

And all he needs to complete the puzzle is JJ!

"The Piece"

 

[heysmilinstrange]

I don't know what would bring me more joy: Guerin immediately trading for Jack Johnson, or reading the mainboards to see how angry everyone would be about the Penguins getting away with yet another dirty trick in a rigged league.

 

[Turin]

Did KIRK show up yet? Or is he still recovering from his excitement?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't really care about that, as I don't actually think it's that simple or nearly that predictable.

Ok serious question, what the f*** makes you think that won't be the case?

Jason Botterill left, and Bill Geurin who is in Karmanos' spot, moved up into Botts' role and so if Guerin leaves...then.

It's how that succession works. It's not me assuming it, it's how the Pens have done things.

Shero and Fitz were here, Botts moved up and JR came in as GM. Botts left, Billy took his role, Billy left, the only logical step is Karmanos takes that role.

 

[Peat]

Ok serious question, what the **** makes you think that won't be the case?

Jason Botterill left, and Bill Geurin who is in Karmanos' spot, moved up into Botts' role and so if Guerin leaves...then.

It's how that succession works. It's not me assuming it, it's how the Pens have done things.

Shero and Fitz were here, Botts moved up and JR came in as GM. Botts left, Billy took his role, Billy left, the only logical step is Karmanos takes that role.

But being the most senior AGM here doesn't mean he's in line to be the next Pens GM. If that's how it went, Rutherford wouldn't be here to begin with.

 

[pokey10]

True - but in doing so, he ran out the clock on his owner's patience and lost his job. Are Minnesota's ownership prepared to be more patient than Philly's, and than they were with Fenton? Because if yes, they should get Hextall.

If they think they've got something going on and want a guy to go in and make changes, probably not him.


Also, who's Mellanby?

Scott

 

[Honour Over Glory]

But being the most senior AGM here doesn't mean he's in line to be the next Pens GM. If that's how it went, Rutherford wouldn't be here to begin with.

That has nothing to do with who was promoted. Pens were wanting to groom Fitzgerald, Botterill, and Guerin.

When Shero left, he took Fitzgerald with him to New Jersey.
Botterill basically saw his fast track and I think this was when JR was extended the first time.
Guerin left to be a GM with the Wild, JR is still our GM for the indefinite future and Guerin knows that.

But each one took over for the next for the Assistant GM's. If you think that Karmanos and his extensive experience isn't going to be the main AGM, I don't know what to tell you, they will add a 2nd AGM, but I would put money on Karmanos being the next right hand man for JR (which on the website, he already is).

I don't get why people are being so whiny about this, were people blind to this the whole f***ing time we had AGMs or what? Ignoring how everything went, they suddenly then decide to ignore how they've done things?

You're all smarter than that (i hope).

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Just because Karmanos gets the AGM job (which he already has) doesn't mean he's going to be our GM.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Did KIRK show up yet? Or is he still recovering from his excitement?

Kirk is waiting for it to be announced that it was all an April Fools joke in August.

He isn't allowed to be this happy.

 

[Riptide]

That has nothing to do with who was promoted. Pens were wanting to groom Fitzgerald, Botterill, and Guerin.

When Shero left, he took Fitzgerald with him to New Jersey.
Botterill basically saw his fast track and I think this was when JR was extended the first time.
Guerin left to be a GM with the Wild, JR is still our GM for the indefinite future and Guerin knows that.

But each one took over for the next for the Assistant GM's. If you think that Karmanos and his extensive experience isn't going to be the main AGM, I don't know what to tell you, they will add a 2nd AGM, but I would put money on Karmanos being the next right hand man for JR (which on the website, he already is).

I don't get why people are being so whiny about this, were people blind to this the whole ****ing time we had AGMs or what? Ignoring how everything went, they suddenly then decide to ignore how they've done things?

You're all smarter than that (i hope).

All depends on who the next AGM is, and how things work out. The "plan" could be that Karmanos is the right hand guy, but that could very easily change - either from Rutherford or from direction from above.

But your statement was "Karmanos is next in line for the succession to GM". And I stand by my response that I don't actually think it's that simple or nearly that predictable - especially as it likely won't be Rutherford who gets to make that choice. It'll either be JR's current boss or it will be another owner who's making a choice on who they want.

Just because Karmanos gets the AGM job (which he already has) doesn't mean he's going to be our GM.

Nor does it mean he'll be the next of our AGMs to get a GM gig. Or that he'll be the right hand guy of the 2 AGMs. And stating otherwise before we even know who the next AGM will be seems really shortsighted.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Except Karmanos was VP of Hockey Ops when Fitz, Botts, and G were here. Two left and he became AGM with Billy.

But sure, lets live in denial.

 

[Night Shift]

I don't get why people are being so whiny about this, were people blind to this the whole ****ing time we had AGMs or what? Ignoring how everything went, they suddenly then decide to ignore how they've done things?

You're all smarter than that (i hope).

What I've taken out of this thread is that I'm a little surprised about the positive reaction to Billy G in general, when all I can recall is all negativity in this forum (regarding Guerin) to the point it had me believe Guerin was a problem here. So which is it?

 

[Riptide]

Except Karmanos was VP of Hockey Ops when Fitz, Botts, and G were here. Two left and he became AGM with Billy.

But sure, lets live in denial.

So Karmanos was VP of hockey ops... and has been passed over twice for a GM gig and somehow he's now next in line? You're logic is flawless.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes, I'm aware Hunwick was the cap albatross we were taking back. Taking him off your hands was doing you a solid. So why did we have a clause where if we somehow flipped him we would have to pay a penalty for him?

Look at every single transaction Botts has made and point to a single one where the other GM did us a favor? The only trade he has made that he won was getting a guy who essentially wanted to go nowhere else but Buffalo because going to Toronto would've been impossible.

Important to read this mindset when criticizing our GM. Reminder to myself as well.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

What I've taken out of this thread is that I'm a little surprised about the positive reaction to Billy G in general, when all I can recall is all negativity in this forum (regarding Guerin) to the point it had me believe Guerin was a problem here. So which is it?

The post you quoted was about Karmanos, not Billy G.

I've never said Billy was a problem here, I don't know what his scope was as the Assistant GM, but as a Development Scout, he seemed to be highly praised by a lot of players and I wish the guy well.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

So Karmanos was VP of hockey ops... and has been passed over twice for a GM gig and somehow he's now next in line? You're logic is flawless.

Karmanos left for the Pens not so long after JR became GM. He was VP of Hockey Ops when we had Fitzgerald and Botterill as AGM's and Guerin was Player Development.

When Fitz left, Guerin became AGM with Botts.
When Botts left, Karmanos became AGM with Guerin.

You see where this is going? Because it's literally where its going.