Guerin Named New Wild GM

[Riptide]

Isn't the successor to Bill Guerin, an old hat from Carolina?

Vellucci? Even so, I'd still take it. But then I want new blood in the management group - even if BG wasn't the problem.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Vellucci? Even so, I'd still take it. But then I want new blood in the management group - even if BG wasn't the problem.

Jason Karmanos is next in line for the succession to GM.

A guy that was JR's ex AGM.

His lone claim to fame as an ex Penguin is that he was in a Pens training camp that one time in the 90's.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

There's entirely too much Carolina floatin' around in this franchise.

 

[Pens x]

I honestly have no idea what if any input Guerin had in some of JR's bad moves the past few years, so it would be foolish of me to say thank god Guerin is gone or whatever.

Hopefully this isn't a bad thing for us.

Very true.

Our biggest issues continue to be poor free agent signings, so unless Guerin unilaterally signed some of these idiots, we will still have issues.

Our biggest issue is Sully and JR. I consider Guerin pretty far down on our biggest problems list.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Re The whole "Was Billy G a bad influence thing"... I half-buy the idea, but also half-buy that it's simply that Rutherford is, ah, of an erratic and mercurial nature and drove the bus there and back again pretty much all by himself. I think seeing what his philosophy looks like at Minnesota will be interesting.

I'm also curious as to what players he might want from us. I feel like executives returning to their old team for all the depth pieces they liked better than the ones at their new org is pretty regular after all. I don't do hope enough to think Johnson, but I'm half thinking he might try to go for one of our forwards on the cheap if opportunity presents itself. I also think that, depending on what he thinks of Stalock, he might look at Jarry - it's not an org that has one waiting in the AHL insofar as I can see.

In any case - definitely congrats and thanks to him.

Bad influences in the Pens management predate JR and Guerin, this franchise has allowed the country club atmosphere dictate how things were done when they gave a player too much power and fired a Hall of Fame coach and then fired another coach because he didn't speak english well enough and then another coach because he made them play defense too much.

The fact that people have no idea about this team's actual past and blame current management is always a treat for me, in a funny way.

 

[Rakell67]

Lol...Seeler sucks just as bad as JJ, that’s why I was suggesting JJ for them...I think you’ve found even a worse outcome for the Pens than the current status quo...

Umm, he’s signed for $700 and could be waived/sent to AHL, opening up $3 mil in cap space. Not sure why that would be hard to figure out. Teams usually trade matching number of contracts since there is a contract limit.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Honestly I get the feeling that AGMs don't really matter at this point in JR's tenure. I think he's sorta just flying by the seat of his pants and doing whatever he wants. He can burn it all down and walk away due to the end of the window and what he's already accomplished and use retirement as an excuse. Why would he listen to anyone?

 

[Turin]

Hopefully he doesn’t steal a bunch of scouts and stuff.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Hopefully he doesn’t steal a bunch of scouts and stuff.

If my reasoning earlier in this thread is solid then the scouts that would go with him he can have.

I can't imagine many of Karmanos's staff including Sam Ventura would want to hitch themselves to that wagon if, as I speculated, they had been on the other side of some of these arguments.

Does anyone believe that the analytics people put any kind of numbers in that made the case that JJ was, or would be, good? You saw how hard people like McCurdy laughed at the Pens for the signing.

If Billy G wants to take some of his living in the 70's acolytes with him I will drive them to the airport.

 

[cygnus47]

I'm whelmed. Guerin was never tied to any of the good moves and JR was significantly less thoughtful with Guerin as AGM compared to Botts.

We need someone to tell JR 'no' when he wants to sign useless players and whatever Guerin was he clearly wasn't that.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Very true.

Our biggest issues continue to be poor free agent signings, so unless Guerin unilaterally signed some of these idiots, we will still have issues.

Our biggest issue is Sully and JR. I consider Guerin pretty far down on our biggest problems list.

Please, tell me who is out there right now, available, that would be a better combo then the men who brought back to back Cups to this team?

Honestly, I think we could have won the last 4 Cups and people would still bitch.

 

[Peat]

Honestly I get the feeling that AGMs don't really matter at this point in JR's tenure. I think he's sorta just flying by the seat of his pants and doing whatever he wants. He can burn it all down and walk away due to the end of the window and what he's already accomplished and use retirement as an excuse. Why would he listen to anyone?

Even if Rutherford is coming up with the vision single handed, there's still a lot of GMing he simply can't do himself because he doesn't have the time to do it all. The AGMs may be simple filters and glorified scouts, but there's still a lot of difference between being good at that and bad at that.

 

[66-30-33]

Good luck Guerin, hope you do well in Wild land. How about trading us Zucker though?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Even if Rutherford is coming up with the vision single handed, there's still a lot of GMing he simply can't do himself because he doesn't have the time to do it all. The AGMs may be simple filters and glorified scouts, but there's still a lot of difference between being good at that and bad at that.

No I agree. I'm just saying that I don't think people should hold their breath regarding "new voices in the room." I simply have my doubts that he's really listening at this point. But yeah for sure these guys have every day and very real tasks they have to do. Like more or less running the farm teams.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

No I agree. I'm just saying that I don't think people should hold their breath regarding "new voices in the room." I simply have my doubts that he's really listening at this point. But yeah for sure these guys have every day and very real tasks they have to do. Like more or less running the farm teams.

Someone has to answer the phones when Grandpa Munster goes to bed at 3 pm.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Someone has to answer the phones when Grandpa Munster goes to bed at 3 pm.

...or reluctantly tell him where he left his putter.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Hopefully he doesn’t steal a bunch of scouts and stuff.

It'll be funny if he doesn't, which is probably more telling than anything.

 

[ryerockarola]

Hopefully he's easier on the rookies than when he played

 

[Honour Over Glory]

There really is no right or wrong GM at points in their career. A coach can win back 2 back and still be absolute shit years later, the back 2 backs don't mean anything because years later, those 2 cups aren't going to win you more just by faith, you have to keep earning it by adapting and evolving and its a partnership with a GM that sees that vision. So many fail, so so many.

I mean at one point, Chiarelli won the Bruins a cup and was heralded by many of their fans, just as we did for Shero.

Then everyone sours on them when these guys can't strike gold again (@shoplifter I debated the use of lightning in a bottle). I like seeing guys like Botts and Guerin take hold of a truly pathetic team like the Sabres and build them up.

Botts was gifted Eichel, so he has it easier.

Guerin will really be put to the test and I think we'll really see what he's learned being a fly on the wall all these years and what he preaches. It's going to shock us that's for sure.

Some think he's just a size queen that wants the old NHL to return while others think he actually liked speed and talent and will preach a mixture of that said size and speed in a more Blues sort of way. But one thing is for sure, he is not handed anything in Minnesota, that team needs a steady hand and a clear vision and direction.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

People were really high on Botts and I am looking what he's done in Buffalo and I am still skeptical on his vision. He finally fixed the defense to the point where if guys develop properly, he has not done much for the forward group, that forward group is almost a joke outside of 1.5 line's worth of players.

Hopefully he's easier on the rookies than when he played

People loved that about him though, dude took little to no time getting acclimated to a team, I think that makes it easier than the grizzled veteran that is quiet and makes you come to him, he just straight way busted your balls and joked around.

 

[Riptide]

Jason Karmanos is next in line for the succession to GM.

A guy that was JR's ex AGM.

His lone claim to fame as an ex Penguin is that he was in a Pens training camp that one time in the 90's.

I don't really care about that, as I don't actually think it's that simple or nearly that predictable.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I wouldn't mind at all if Karmanos was next in line to be GM. He at least comes from an analytics background that should lead to the possession and speed type of play that I like best.

 

[farscape1]

WaS Guerin in charge of WBS? If so who replaces him.

 

[WayneSid9987]

WaS Guerin in charge of WBS? If so who replaces him.

I"m sure they'll just hand all of the WBS GM's duties to Velucci. He did it with Carolina, i assume.

 

[sabremike]

People were really high on Botts and I am looking what he's done in Buffalo and I am still skeptical on his vision. He finally fixed the defense to the point where if guys develop properly, he has not done much for the forward group, that forward group is almost a joke outside of 1.5 line's worth of players.



People loved that about him though, dude took little to no time getting acclimated to a team, I think that makes it easier than the grizzled veteran that is quiet and makes you come to him, he just straight way busted your balls and joked around.

Botts in a nutshell: in 2018 the Sabres had the top pick in every round. Toronto wanted our 6th rounder and Botts gave it to them for their 6th rounder in 2019 and nothing else (straight swap). I think anyone here can see how comically stupid that was: it would literally be impossible for the pick we got to be equal to the one given up. It was like something out of a comedy sketch and should've been a huge red flag that he was a total mark. Everything he's done since has done nothing but confirm it.