World Cup: Group F: Germany vs. Mexico, 6/17/2018

[cgf]

Its always a Problem if a Coach stays to Long. He has to much love for some Players (Müller for example)
The first squad should look different. But now its to late.

------------------------------Neuer

Kimmich---------Boateng-------Hummels--------Max

-----------------------Khedira---Kroos

----------Reus------------Gündogan-----------Sane

-----------------------------Werner

WTF is the point of playing Khedira?

And Max is a poor man's Plattenhart, he would get absolutely abused by counters. Since he's never had to defend one before for Augsburg...nevermind that he'd give the ball away any time he touched it outside of the final third. That guy is literally just a left foot that can deliver crosses, corners & set pieces. He's very poor in every other aspect.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Lahm & Schweini were still lambasted for "choking" in 2012, it wasn't just a club thing with them

Players generally become winners retroactively once they've won. Until then they are "chokers" to the press.

Win or lose all of Schweini, Lahm, Klose had clear WC pedigree and solid play on the biggest stage. They almost always did. For sure with them on the pitch I never had the feeling of turning off the tube in disgust like I did in the first half today and which I've never done.

Other than Boateng, Neuer there was no sense of leadership and control and confidence today. In fairness to Ozil, Kroos, who did everything they could.

But the look of worry on Germany's faces even before the match started today was something I'm less accustomed to seeing from this German era.

What I saw instead was the looks of vet players that know the long halcyon is probably at an end and that they do not have confidence in the current lineup.

That said I don't know how Germany went through qualifying so cleanly.

 

[cgf]

Win or lose all of Schweini, Lahm, Klose had clear WC pedigree and solid play on the biggest stage. They almost always did. For sure with them on the pitch I never had the feeling of turning off the tube in disgust like I did in the first half today and which I've never done.

Other than Boateng, Neuer there was no sense of leadership and control and confidence today. In fairness to Ozil, Kroos, who did everything they could.

But the look of worry on Germany's faces even before the match started today was something I'm less accustomed to seeing from this German era.

What I saw instead was the looks of vet players that know the long halcyon is probably at an end and that they do not have confidence in the current lineup.

That said I don't know how Germany went through qualifying so cleanly.

I hear what you are saying, but the tourney isn't over. Let's see how this story ends before we decide whether they'll be remembered as leaders or chokers. As this game reminded me of the Italy game in 2012...another match in which I lamented the absense of Ilkay lol. That was the last time that I remember being this annoyed with just how out of sync they were in a competitive match.

We made it through qualifying because Jogi had mixed things up a lot more with his selection and played us better tactically.


...though we are missing Stindl's leadership, that dude is a f***ing warrior.

 

[Bure80]

Khedira played a good season for Juve. Even if i would like a faster Player. Germany just have no better option.
Max had 2 goals and 13 assists this season.Plattenhardt had 0 goals and 7 assists. So Plattenhart is poor mans Max.

 

[robertmac43]

Gündogan

Ozil here for sure

 

[Drivesaitl]

Its always a Problem if a Coach stays to Long. He has to much love for some Players (Müller for example)
The first squad should look different. But now its to late.

------------------------------Neuer

Kimmich---------Boateng-------Hummels--------Max

-----------------------Khedira---Kroos

----------Reus------------Gündogan-----------Sane

-----------------------------Werner

In fairness this was being stated here in 2010, 2014

But I agree that it has been too long now. heh.

Low really overthinking things with this starting lineup. Trouble is the players he's brought aside from Reus, Brandt, theres not much to stem the bleeding. The help isn't really in this lineup and was instead curiously left home.

This lineup worried me before the tournament started. A player of the caliber or Plattenhart playing on the German National team. Really?

 

[Corto]

Somewhere, Leroy Sane is probably thinking he could've helped in this game. And just about every German.

 

[Live in the Now]

That said I don't know how Germany went through qualifying so cleanly.

Qualifying is simply not as hard for the giants as people think it is. They have gigantic player pools to choose from.

Anyway, it is very clear Germany picked the wrong squad and will suffer the consequences. Müller and Draxler were a mess, showing that if you're in bad club form, it isn't going to magically snap back into place against other good teams. Creatively, they have only one player to supply all of it, and he's a bit past his best.

Even when Ozil is not on the ball he's generally one of the best players at drifting into space to pull defenders and create space for teammates. I laugh at the commentators that continue the "Ozil is lazy" narrative despite him covering the most ground in some games, as he's constantly moving. Everyone would rather praise the fake hustle/passion of a player like Alexis.

I won't argue that he played particularly great today, but the fact that he's singled out among the others is just absurd.

He gets all the shit for two reasons. One, he's the only player who's supposed to be creative and has to do it by himself. Which is what always happens in these tournaments with certain players, and they get endless shit for not performing at their best. Why does everyone think Messi hasn't won a big tournament? Players can't win by themselves. Müller doesn't have it anymore, Sane isn't there, so it's Ozil's job alone. Look at how Eriksen played yesterday. Wtf is someone supposed to do in this situation? Any team with only one creative player, that player is effectively playing 1 v. 6. The entire defense and at least two midfielders have a job to stop them.

The team selection for this game was so poor, and they can fix it to some extent by starting Reus, but the midfield problem isn't going away. In the first half they were passed through like they weren't even there.

 

[cgf]

Khedira played a good season for Juve. Even if i would like a faster Player. Germany just have no better option.
Max had 2 goals and 13 assists this season.Plattenhardt had 0 goals and 7 assists. So Plattenhart is poor mans Max.

We're not playing in Serie A. I know it's not as slow as some make it seem, but it's a lot slower than what he faced today.

How did I know that Max's #s are why you thought he was a good choice...other than that being the only reason anyone has ever thought that Max would be a good choice for the NT *sigh*

But he really wouldn't be. He put those #s up taking set pieces & launching counters for a team who bunkered hard and who play trees up front. If you wanted to get Max to produce for the NT we would need to start Wagner & Gomez up front. And we'd have to sit very deep to keep him from getting exposed. Plattenhart is much better defending up the pitch & isn't as much of a liability to our possession game.

And I don't think Plattenhart should even be in the team since Rudy is a better FB than him anyway.

 

[Suiteness]

This is like watching the latter stages of an FA Cup tie in which some mid-table League One outfit is hanging on for dear life against a team like Bournemouth or West Ham.

This one deserved more love, Lord alive did I laugh at this.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Khedira played a good season for Juve. Even if i would like a faster Player. Germany just have no better option.
Max had 2 goals and 13 assists this season.Plattenhardt had 0 goals and 7 assists. So Plattenhart is poor mans Max.

In fairness if Khedira wasn't starting there would be plenty questioning it. I do feel that Germany, as a defending WC Champ, needed to remember to bring a mix of returning champs to the lineup as continuance and pedigree. Its just which ones you choose. In the end the feeling I have is that Germany is unsettled, uncharacteristically, and that the question is less about returning players being at fault as those that have found their way into the lineup and done nothing and resulting in players like Ozil being compromised through playing alongside so many weaker links.

I should clarify though. For sure I didn't want Drexler playing in this tournament just because he was a sub (another bad pick by Low) in Rio.

Germany used to have a fair amount of armor in the lineup. Hard to find weaknesses. Mexico found it in this version all day and really quite easily.

 

[cgf]

Somewhere, Leroy Sane is probably thinking he could've helped in this game. And just about every German.

Probably on the same couch as Gotze, Dahoud, Weigl, Kramer & Kruse

 

[cgf]

[...]but the midfield problem isn't going away. In the first half they were passed through like they weren't even there.

Playing Ilkay & LeGo instead of Khedira's corpse alongside Toni would help a lot.

 

[Live in the Now]

Playing Ilkay & LeGo instead of Khedira's corpse alongside Toni would help a lot.

It would, but I don't think that's a team that's going to go really long in this tournament. Mexico made a good blueprint for other opponents to build from.

 

[cgf]

In fairness if Khedira wasn't starting there would be plenty questioning it. I do feel that Germany, as a defending WC Champ, needed to remember to bring a mix of returning champs to the lineup as continuance and pedigree. Its just which ones you choose. In the end the feeling I have is that Germany is unsettled, uncharacteristically, and that the question is less about returning players being at fault as those that have found their way into the lineup and done nothing and resulting in players like Ozil being compromised through playing alongside so many weaker links.

I should clarify though. For sure I didn't want Drexler playing in this tournament just because he was a sub (another bad pick by Low) in Rio.

Germany used to have a fair amount of armor in the lineup. Hard to find weaknesses. Mexico found it in this version all day and really quite easily.

I totally understand why Jogi started Khedira & Draxler today, but now that it went as expected, he needs to make the changes that are needed.

 

[cgf]

It would, but I don't think that's a team that's going to go really long in this tournament. Mexico made a good blueprint for other opponents to build from.

Eh, I don't think the mexican blueprint would have really worked with Ilkay linking us...so that Mesut didn't have to drop back as deep as he did...and LeGo or a third CB joining that deeper central part of the pitch in defending counters

Especially with Draxler & Muller being replaced with Brandt or Reus up front and a Werner who's taking his chances.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

It is important to note that with Vela, Lozano and Chicharito Mexico had the exact sort of players who will prosper if the opponent keeps losing the ball with numbers forward. In hockey terms, Germany's D always pinches and that requires focus and coordination to avoid these turnovers. If you look back at 2014, another team not considered on Germany's level - Algeria - nearly pulled off the same stunt when Germany put in a less than focused performance. Back then the team was bailed out once Algeria got a bit tired..it could have happened today as well but Germany just lacked the gusto to break through.

 

[KJS14]

He gets all the **** for two reasons. One, he's the only player who's supposed to be creative and has to do it by himself. Which is what always happens in these tournaments with certain players, and they get endless **** for not performing at their best. Why does everyone think Messi hasn't won a big tournament? Players can't win by themselves. Müller doesn't have it anymore, Sane isn't there, so it's Ozil's job alone. Look at how Eriksen played yesterday. Wtf is someone supposed to do in this situation? Any team with only one creative player, that player is effectively playing 1 v. 6. The entire defense and at least two midfielders have a job to stop them.

The team selection for this game was so poor, and they can fix it to some extent by starting Reus, but the midfield problem isn't going away. In the first half they were passed through like they weren't even there.

There's definitely unfair expectations on certain players to just create goals out of thin air. Mesut isn't the only one that gets singled out for this, but it happens so much for Arsenal that it pisses me off every time now. He's the scapeGOAT.

However, Germany has other creative players in the side (not to the extent of Ozil) that shouldn't get a pass in games like this. But when in doubt it's easiest for the out-of-touch commentators to blame the lazy guy with poor body language.

 

[Evilo]

I don't think Ozil is the only one who gets criticized. Hummels, Muller, Khedira, Kroos, Draxler all took heat in this thread.

Only one was defended though and it's Ozil.

 

[Live in the Now]

There's definitely unfair expectations on certain players to just create goals out of thin air. Mesut isn't the only one that gets singled out for this, but it happens so much for Arsenal that it pisses me off every time now. He's the scapeGOAT.

However, Germany has other creative players in the side (not to the extent of Ozil) that shouldn't get a pass in games like this. But when in doubt it's easiest for the out-of-touch commentators to blame the lazy guy with poor body language.

I think the simple fact is that the other "creative" players like Muller and Draxler just aren't good at all. I also don't think anyone got a pass. IMO Hummels was the worst player besides Muller. Not really close either.

 

[KJS14]

I don't think Ozil is the only one who gets criticized. Hummels, Muller, Khedira, Kroos, Draxler all took heat in this thread.

Only one was defended though and it's Ozil.

It's not only this thread, but rather all throughout the media that Ozil gets singled out for his performances. Like I said, everyone loves to blame the "lazy guy that doesn't put in a shift" in post-match shows, the papers, social media, etc. And it often happens on here too.

 

[cgf]

I don't think Ozil is the only one who gets criticized. Hummels, Muller, Khedira, Kroos, Draxler all took heat in this thread.

Only one was defended though and it's Ozil.

Khedira is the only one who took as much heat, with Muller & Draxler getting less & Kroos n Hummels getting a lot less. Despite Mesut being the best of that lot today, maybe defending him was justified?

 

[Bon Esprit]

LOL at all the haters. What favourite has done well? France? Argentina? Brazl (tie vs. Switzerland right now? Spain tie vs. (strong) Portugal?
Let's give the cup to Russia. They won their game 5:0.

 

[Bure80]

I think the simple fact is that the other "creative" players like Muller and Draxler just aren't good at all. I also don't think anyone got a pass. IMO Hummels was the worst player besides Muller. Not really close either.

Müller is not really a creative Player in my opinion. I dont like him as winger too. He is better in the middle, where he gets more shots.

 

[Live in the Now]

Müller is not really a creative Player in my opinion. I dont like him as winger too. He is better in the middle, where he gets more shots.

Yeah, he's definitely not, but he was played there for some reason.