World Cup: Group F: Germany vs. Mexico, 6/17/2018

Result?


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Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
61,956
8,524
France
LOL at all the haters. What favourite has done well? France? Argentina? Brazl (tie vs. Switzerland right now? Spain tie vs. (strong) Portugal?
Let's give the cup to Russia. They won their game 5:0.
All the favourites have struggled indeed.
We'll see what Belgium does.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

Registered User
May 3, 2007
16,384
3,410
38° N 77° W
Müller is a great support player, but he will not carry a team. Hes not gonna take the ball and dribble at goal. There seems to be zero chemistry between Germany's attacking players and that hurts Müller a lot as he relies on service and on players making the right runs. Werner and Draxler felt like alien objects at times.

I mean, we could write a few paragraphs about pretty much every German player's performance in this match. If they all look out of sorts, assuming they haven't lost their ability to play overnight, then the problem is the team's setup and/or their attitude - both of which go back to the manager. And yes it's fair to talk about attitude. Mexico played with great passion and intensity from the 1st minute, Germany was tentative and seemed surprised that Mexico was giving it a go. If you had watched the way Mexico talked the last week, you would not have been surprised to see them do that..yet I think Bierhoff after the match conceded that Mexico surprised them in their approach.
 

Live in the Now

Registered User
Dec 17, 2005
53,029
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I'm expecting a big win for Belgium so that the EPL-announcers will start to talk about whether this "is belgium's year?" yet again.

...at least until they lose in the round of 16...

When one of the brackets features...

Spain vs. Russia
Croatia vs. Denmark
Mexico vs. Serbia
Belgium vs. Senegal

People are gonna be mad. So mad. The other one will have...

Uruguay vs. Portugal
Argentina vs. France
Brazil vs. Germany
England vs. Colombia
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,984
19,055
w/ Renly's Peach
Müller is a great support player, but he will not carry a team. Hes not gonna take the ball and dribble at goal. There seems to be zero chemistry between Germany's attacking players and that hurts Müller a lot as he relies on service and on players making the right runs. Werner and Draxler felt like alien objects at times.

I mean, we could write a few paragraphs about pretty much every German player's performance in this match. If they all look out of sorts, assuming they haven't lost their ability to play overnight, then the problem is the team's setup and/or their attitude - both of which go back to the manager. And yes it's fair to talk about attitude. Mexico played with great passion and intensity from the 1st minute, Germany was tentative and seemed surprised that Mexico was giving it a go. If you had watched the way Mexico talked the last week, you would not have been surprised to see them do that..yet I think Bierhoff after the match conceded that Mexico surprised them in their approach.

? I liked the through balls they played into Werner before the mexicans shocked them & took charge of the match. Draxler...is Draxler...

I'm hoping for a Werner-Brandt duo in front of Mesut by the knockouts.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,984
19,055
w/ Renly's Peach
When one of the brackets features...

Spain vs. Russia
Croatia vs. Denmark
Mexico vs. Serbia
Belgium vs. Senegal

People are gonna be mad. So mad. The other one will have...

Uruguay vs. Portugal
Argentina vs. France
Brazil vs. Germany
England vs. Colombia

What would be even better is if Belgium screwed up the England match in their group so that Colombia could thump them in the round of 16 while England lost to Poland instead.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

Registered User
May 3, 2007
16,384
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38° N 77° W
? I liked the through balls they played into Werner before the mexicans shocked them & took charge of the match. Draxler...is Draxler...

I'm hoping for a Werner-Brandt duo in front of Mesut by the knockouts.

It might be unfair because of how the match unfolded and the fact he did have a few chances, but I felt like there was a 40 minute stretch or so where I did not see Werner. Now the same can be said of a few players, but he's the lone forward so you'd expect him to be a focal point of play.
 

Live in the Now

Registered User
Dec 17, 2005
53,029
7,489
LA
What would be even better is if Belgium screwed up the England match in their group so that Colombia could thump them in the round of 16 while England lost to Poland instead.

If we were guaranteed an SF with Colombia, England, Serbia, or Mexico...I wouldn't be able to contain myself. That's too funny. Croatia also knows how to beat Spain.

So let's get a Serbia-Croatia SF.
 
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Stray Wasp

Registered User
May 5, 2009
4,561
1,503
South east London
LOL at all the haters. What favourite has done well? France? Argentina? Brazl (tie vs. Switzerland right now? Spain tie vs. (strong) Portugal?
Let's give the cup to Russia. They won their game 5:0.

I'll answer your question with a question- what aspect of Germany's performance would you suggest people should praise?

If criticising dross makes me a 'hater', I'll proudly wear the badge.

Here's another question, I wonder if Germany win the World Cup, and I praise their performances, I'll be labelled a 'gusher' for daring to say things that their fans like to hear?
 
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Bon Esprit

Registered User
Jan 24, 2004
4,856
438
I'll answer your question with a question- what aspect of Germany's performance would you suggest people should praise?

If criticising dross makes me a 'hater', I'll proudly wear the badge.

Here's another question, I wonder if Germany win the World Cup, and I praise their performances, I'll be labelled a 'gusher' for daring to say things that their fans like to hear?
I woudn't label you as hater. TBH I didn't even recognize you as a critic. Critics are okay, I'm one of them, but man, it's the first game. As pointed out no top side did good as of now.
As for your second question. You are smarter than that.
If I wanted to I could rip apart the performance of France, Brazil or Argentina. I don't do it, because it's no my cup of tea.
Let's wait and see what Belgium, England and others do in their first games. I won't comment unless it' spectacular good.
 

Stray Wasp

Registered User
May 5, 2009
4,561
1,503
South east London
I woudn't label you as hater. TBH I didn't even recognize you as a critic. Critics are okay, I'm one of them, but man, it's the first game. As pointed out no top side did good as of now.
As for your second question. You are smarter than that.
If I wanted to I could rip apart the performance of France, Brazil or Argentina. I don't do it, because it's no my cup of tea.
Let's wait and see what Belgium, England and others do in their first games. I won't comment unless it' spectacular good.

You're absolutely right- it's just one game. Only a fool would write Germany off because of it. Equally, World Cups are a short sprint, and bad flaws need to be rectified quickly, otherwise before a team knows it they're done for.

I expect Germany to improve, and I continue to think they're likely to make the later stages. If so, I'll gladly praise them. But today wasn't an acceptable performance for any team of merit- and Germany is on paper a team of considerable merit as far as I'm concerned.

I very much believe that if we never criticise, praise becomes meaningless. Mind, that's just an opinion, like near everything else I post.
 

Nalens Oga

Registered User
Jan 5, 2010
16,780
1,053
Canada
Low is like the Babcock of soccer coaches. All structure but shit at line-ups and adjustments. Having Muller play as a pseudo-winger is one thing but Draxler over Sane let alone Reus is inexcusable. Khedira over Gundagon...Khedira can't run anymore and he needs a Schweinsteiger type to hold things down for him because he can't do shit alone. Teams like France or Brazil's counter attack would eat Germany alive just like they did during that Euro 2016 semi-final.

They played so casually with a lack of urgency until they went down and even then. This was like watching Bayern late in the season, a complete mess and certain players mentally checking out.
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
45,289
54,812
Duck hunting
Müller is a great support player, but he will not carry a team. Hes not gonna take the ball and dribble at goal. There seems to be zero chemistry between Germany's attacking players and that hurts Müller a lot as he relies on service and on players making the right runs. Werner and Draxler felt like alien objects at times.

I mean, we could write a few paragraphs about pretty much every German player's performance in this match. If they all look out of sorts, assuming they haven't lost their ability to play overnight, then the problem is the team's setup and/or their attitude - both of which go back to the manager. And yes it's fair to talk about attitude. Mexico played with great passion and intensity from the 1st minute, Germany was tentative and seemed surprised that Mexico was giving it a go. If you had watched the way Mexico talked the last week, you would not have been surprised to see them do that..yet I think Bierhoff after the match conceded that Mexico surprised them in their approach.

So much to this. Could not agree more. Muller of course worked best when he was around sublime movements by any of Ozil, Klose, Schwieni, Khedira, Lahm forwarding the ball and it was the combination and orchestration that worked. Much tighter unit.

The difference is this version is not a team. Its a transition team in time.

I don't really think Germany was surprised Mexico gave it a go. Look at the concern etched in the faces of Kroos, Boateng, Muller, Ozil before the game even began. To me the game proceeded exactly as I thought going in. Unfortunately I felt Mexico would win. (Stated in the Oilers board) and from the first minute on Germany was overwhelmed with the pressure. It recalled in instants what Germany did to Brazil pressuring turnovers all over the pitch. Germany did have difficulty matching intensity and Mexico clearly wanted it more.

Ironically the most overconfident Germans appeared to be the ones that had no right to be. Werner, Kimmich, Drexler. They played as if they expected Mexico would part easily.

btw the bolded is also why Mario Gomez has never really fit on this squad. No real sync with the core of the club plus lacking finish in WC play.
 

Sabresfansince1980

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Sep 29, 2011
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This was a curious match to see. I think about every savy fan knew that Mexico would be aggressive on counters, and Germany would have to be careful and cohesive from midfield to back line. Yet I saw counter after counter with random guys chasing back to fill spots that were inexplicably left open by the player who should've been there. Kimmich was the most at fault of not being where he should be...way too forward. That can't be the gameplan, for someone else to cover for him. In 2014 they were playing the same set-up and Lahm was never caught out of the TV screen with an opposing forward cruising down on the wing, waiting for his pass wide open.

Not that Kimmich was the worst player for me today. I thought Draxler was generally wasting time during his touches...moving around but with no effect. I don't understand him starting over Reus to begin with. Others played poorly as described in earlier posts, but above all my impression is that Germany should've known what they were facing today and either didn't know or didn't care or respect the other side. I posted before the WC started that based on the previous several months, Germany seemed like they thought they could just walk out on the pitch and execute a gameplan to be successful, without the mental and physical desperation required at this event. Today epitomized my fears, and I no longer want to hear "oh it was just a friendly" when they play @#$% for months on end.
 
Last edited:

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
45,289
54,812
Duck hunting
On a positive note Germany played I felt much better in 2nd half spreading the ball wide as is more their characteristic and with more meaningful building and ball control. Of course positive that German had +20 attempts on goal. The chances were certainly there. 2 posts as well.

The unsettling thing is as good as Mexico was Germany beat themselves in this game. With Neuer in net and Boatang being a brick wall Mexico was not going to score in this match unless Germany gave Mexico several ridiculous odd man rushes. Which Germany served on a platter all day. You're not going to win many using any system if you are not committed to numbers back. Germany game is more typically to exploit teams getting careless. Worse, Mexico warned Germany of this from the first minute and at least 6 times before Mexico finally scored. Germany had every opportunity to adjust in the first half and play more sensible game. Even if Germany was having trouble on the ball there was no reason to lose this game. They could have played it to a draw just by not getting caught over pressuring forward.
 

Deficient Mode

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
60,348
2,397
Kimmich was the most at fault of not being where he should be...way too forward. That can't be the gameplan, for someone else to cover for him. In 2014 they were playing the same set-up and Lahm was never caught out of the TV screen with an opposing forward cruising down on the wing, waiting for his pass wide open.

It can be and it is. Lahm didn't play RB in a game in which Germany had 67% possession in 2014.
 

Luigi Habs

Captain Saku
Jul 30, 2005
17,466
3,802
Montreal
Germany needs to go 4-3-3 next game. Let me simplify it for Jogi.

Neuer
Boateng-Sule-Hummels-Hector
Kimmich
Ozil-Kroos
Brandt-Werner-Reus

You can also slot Ruddy at RB with Boateng at his usual CB position. But I feel they need Kimmich at DM. Kroos was overwhelmed by himsef there.

Muller should sit. As should Draxler. Brandt and Reus showed in 10 minutes more than what both have the entire game.
 

East Coast Bias

Registered User
Feb 28, 2014
8,362
6,422
NYC
Germany needs to go 4-3-3 next game. Let me simplify it for Jogi.

Neuer
Boateng-Sule-Hummels-Hector
Kimmich
Ozil-Kroos
Brandt-Werner-Reus

You can also slot Ruddy at RB with Boateng at his usual CB position. But I feel they need Kimmich at DM. Kroos was overwhelmed by himsef there.

Muller should sit. As should Draxler. Brandt and Reus showed in 10 minutes more than what both have the entire game.


You said simplify and now Boateng is at RB and I’m confused.
 

Duchene2MacKinnon

In the hands of Genius
Aug 8, 2006
45,300
9,465
Germany needs to go 4-3-3 next game. Let me simplify it for Jogi.

Neuer
Boateng-Sule-Hummels-Hector
Kimmich
Ozil-Kroos
Brandt-Werner-Reus

You can also slot Ruddy at RB with Boateng at his usual CB position. But I feel they need Kimmich at DM. Kroos was overwhelmed by himsef there.

Muller should sit. As should Draxler. Brandt and Reus showed in 10 minutes more than what both have the entire game.

Boateng was probably best player not counting Nuer. You want them to shift the only capable defender against Mexico? The rest looks good... even though I'm confused as to how Mueller will be the top scorer from the bench? ;)
 
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S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
30,706
16,238
Toruń, PL
I remember how all the Gooners here were being chastised by the BuLi Gestapo when we dared second guess Ozil's work ethic and play away from the ball. Fudge berries son of a bucket jumpin’ jehoshaphat was he putrid today.

This German teams really needs his creativity because they literally have nobody else that can make a play. Their whole game revolved around getting the ball to the wingers and crossing it in. That is at a Mourinho at Chelsea level of gameplan nonsense. I said it before the tourney at how brutal their forward options are...Werner, Muller, and ****ing 50 year old Gomez. Werner was pretty bad today because he shouldn't be in this situation that he eventually switched positions with Thomas because he was ineffective.

I also really like Draxler as a player, but I honestly have no clue what he brings to this team. You already have every fullback and winger who plays a similar game. And what's up with a lack of a proper CDM? Jogi didn't even bring one on during the second half and his team got ****ing shredded on the counterattack all game long. If Mexico wasn't so inept at the forward position, I honestly believe we're looking at a 5-1 game here Germany was that bad with the pacy forwards.

I give for credit to Mexico though, he pretty much watched every match that every smaller club played against Arsenal and just conducted those tactics.
 

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