About 10 years ago in a beer league game we noticed during warmups there was an old guy on the other team with post skates like that. We all laughed, and then he put up a hat trick against us.
That's your problem, you can really only compare Orr to his peers the rest is nostalgiac guess work. No one actually knows how he would fair if he played today. It's an ongoing argument, and will continue to be, but in my opinion Orr wouldn't even come close to dominating the way he did back then if he played today. The league as a whole skates so much better and is so much better conditioned it's hardly comparable. Not only that but the depth and quality of talent today dwarfs the 60's and 70's when it was primarily an all-Canadian league with
so many less people to choose from.
I can play against a D level and look like an amazing skater but put me against A level competition and suddenly I don't look so hot. The eye test doesn't work but we do know hockey has evolved so much since when Orr played so I don't see how someone can essentially close the books and say someone who played 35-40 years ago was the best skater ever. It doesn't work for me anyways.
A reminder that this forum is not the place for "Evolution of Hockey" threads, where people who have experienced the "blinding flash of the obvious" come to the conclusion that all players today are better than any players in history, and make implications that Guy Lafleur wouldn't be able to crack an NHL roster today.
In this forum, the history of the sport is to be respected.
Players of the past are worthy of admiration but this section tends to go way overboard with that admiration in my opinion.
That's your problem, you can really only compare Orr to his peers the rest is nostalgiac guess work. No one actually knows how he would fair if he played today. It's an ongoing argument, and will continue to be, but in my opinion Orr wouldn't even come close to dominating the way he did back then if he played today. The league as a whole skates so much better and is so much better conditioned it's hardly comparable. Not only that but the depth and quality of talent today dwarfs the 60's and 70's when it was primarily an all-Canadian league with
so many less people to choose from.
I can play against a D level and look like an amazing skater but put me against A level competition and suddenly I don't look so hot. The eye test doesn't work but we do know hockey has evolved so much since when Orr played so I don't see how someone can essentially close the books and say someone who played 35-40 years ago was the best skater ever. It doesn't work for me anyways.
What about Guy Lafleur?
There's a huge hole in your theory. Don't be offended, because it's the same hole that everybody has who makes the claim you did that everything pre-2005 is inferior and "easy".
I think most of us will agree that the game is faster today than in 1970. The players are bigger too. But you are forgetting one thing. If the common player in 2011 is faster than the common player in 1970 then why wouldn't the superstars of 1970 (Orr) improve as well? In other words, with the rule changes and lack of obstruction in the NHL today Orr would still be hands down the best defenseman in the NHL and would be the best rusher. Nobody does what he did. Nobody even TRIES it anymore. Players are scared to carry the puck on a penalty kill and skate behind their own net. Orr would still do this to an extent.
In conclusion, imagine Orr in 1970 with better skates, better training and better conditioning. He still gets to carry his hockey sense and anticipation to 2011 but his speed is even better. I guess we'll never totally get rid of this train of thought that everything came easier back in the day. I was on the boards here a month ago when someone claimed that the Ottawa Senators made the playoffs in 1997 because it was "easier" to do back then. I didn't realize 14 years ago was already considered irrelevant in some eyes.
IIRC he wore skates of size little smaller than he needed.Coffey had a very flat grind on his skates, didn't he?
IIRC he wore skates of size little smaller than he needed.
Imagine Bobby Orr with 40 years of advancement in regards to the techniques of knee surgery.
Read the sticky in this forum. For those of you who are too lazy to go and do it:
i am not sure morenz was even the fastest player of his era.If it's a comparison to his peers, it's Bobby Orr, and then probably Paul Coffey.
The thing about Orr's skating is, I'm not convinced that it was THAT fast in terms of top speed, compared to his peers. Oh, it may still have been the fastest of its day, I'm just not sure Howie Morenz and Bobby Hull weren't even more dominant speed-wise.
However, I think his skating "skill" was unparalleled. The acceleration, the turning, knowing where to go. I realize that once we go down this road, we are in a grey area as to what counts as part of his "skating skills" and what counts as other skills, such as stickhandling, anticipation, and hockey sense.
But yeah, my gut says Orr.
I think he was a size 9 or 10 and wore skates that were size 5 or 6. He said it allowed the skate to become part of his legs, rather than be footwear. I tried the same thing in order to improve my skating and ended up with blisters from hell, LOL!
i am not sure morenz was even the fastest player of his era.
montreal forum had speed contests regularly and morenz was tied with babe siebert, jimmy ward, russell oatman and gizzy hart for fastest lap time (17s). skaters carried the puck.
in 1928, hec kilrea won $400 for breaking that record. montreal gazette said kilrea's mark (16 2-5) was "liable to stand for a long time." i am not sure what 16 2-5 means. possibly 16 2/5 or 16.25.
in late december of 1927, babe siebert lost control of the puck early in the lap, but still tied the record of 17s. montreal gazette said siebert "lost control of the puck for a time just after the start, otherwise he would have smashed the record by a good margin."
Seriously what's the problem with the argument he was making? (and I'm not trolling here either)
If guys want to make the argument that Orr was the best skater ever, which is the question in the OP, and use the main basis of his dominance to his peers, then some context in evaluation seems to shed light on the topic not detract from it IMO.
The quote that you attributing does not go to say that Orr couldn't play in the NHL today or anything but does try to shed some light on the importance of context in the discussion IMO.
in fact the offending quote came after this was posted in post #26
"Irrespective of era, Bobby Orr's skating is the best I have seen." which surely opens the door to some context or am I off base here?
Back to the original question Coffey was the most graceful and best skater that I have seen and Bure was pretty close in terms of excitement but Coffey if he wanted to could have out skated everyone on every shift and just played "keepaway" which he would often due then set up a goal.
As I recall, he also played "giveaway" often.
Yes he did as he wasn't the best player defensively but his skating prowess still stands.
i am not sure morenz was even the fastest player of his era.
montreal forum had speed contests regularly and morenz was tied with babe siebert, jimmy ward, russell oatman and gizzy hart for fastest lap time (17s). skaters carried the puck.
in 1928, hec kilrea won $400 for breaking that record. montreal gazette said kilrea's mark (16 2-5) was "liable to stand for a long time." i am not sure what 16 2-5 means. possibly 16 2/5 or 16.25.
in late december of 1927, babe siebert lost control of the puck early in the lap, but still tied the record of 17s. montreal gazette said siebert "lost control of the puck for a time just after the start, otherwise he would have smashed the record by a good margin."
I think he was a size 9 or 10 and wore skates that were size 5 or 6. He said it allowed the skate to become part of his legs, rather than be footwear. I tried the same thing in order to improve my skating and ended up with blisters from hell, LOL!
No one crucify me or anything, but I actually thought Coffey was a better skater than Orr. It was about the only thing he was better at, but there it is. Both were amazing though.
Coffey just had such a smooth, effortless glide to him though, that it was almost magical to watch.
He would have faced Gretzky and possibly Lemieux. That would have been incredible. With the medical technology of today, he would likely have had a 20 year career. Just incredible what he might have accomplished with another 10 healthy years tacked on to what he already did accomplish. Would Potvin or Robinson have even sniffed a Norris?
hahaha,
but i got a harsh feeling of much of Bobby Hull was fishing stories, even Bobby said that bobby was better at skating than himself.
Coffey had a very flat grind on his skates, didn't he?
Nobody was a better "all around" Skater than Orr.
Bobby Hull to me, had great acceleration and speed, but could not do the on the fly direction changes and agile things Orr could do on skates with the puck(Nobody could).
Cournoyer was also a phenomenal skater, but again, could not do what Orr could do while holding the puck.