Greatest Skater all time = Bobby Orr?

[Dark Shadows]

Yes Bobby Orr.

Others had some of his talents, but none had all of them. I of course am including the ability to do what he did at top speed. Stop and change directions on a dime. Overall speed. Acceleration.

That video of Sinden talking about Orr shows and covers what you need to know.

Irrespective of era, Bobby Orr's skating is the best I have seen.

 

[VMBM]

In his 'skating prime' (pre-1972?), Orr might have been the best skater ever.

I always like to pimp my favourite Soviet skaters, though:

Helmut Balderis



Incredible speed & balance & feet; could turn any way he wanted, whenever he wanted.


Sergei Kapustin (especially speed-wise)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1909974923608934933&hl=en# At 58:22 (replay at 59:00).

Come on, not many have beaten Serge Savard so cleanly 1-on-1; no dangling involved really, it was pure speed.

Also Maltsev, Firsov, Makarov, Kharlamov, Bykov...

 

[Infinite Vision*]

He wasn't even the greatest skater of his own time. I hear from a good source that Bobby Hull and Yvan Cournoyer were faster and better all around skaters than Orr. He's of course not far behind them. All time though, Fedorov no doubt.

 

[Dark Shadows]

He wasn't even the greatest skater of his own time. I hear from a good source that Bobby Hull and Yvan Cournoyer were faster and better all around skaters than Orr. He's of course not far behind them. All time though, Fedorov no doubt.

Nobody was a better "all around" Skater than Orr.

Bobby Hull to me, had great acceleration and speed, but could not do the on the fly direction changes and agile things Orr could do on skates with the puck(Nobody could).

Cournoyer was also a phenomenal skater, but again, could not do what Orr could do while holding the puck.

 

[JaymzB]

How about Henri Richard?

 

[Dark Shadows]

How about Henri Richard?

I am a huge Henri Richard fan. But I would not put his skating near Orr's category.

 

[danincanada]

The other thing is Bobby wasn't just fast going north-south, he could literally jump 10 feet east-west in the blink of an eye at high speed.
That is the biggest difference between him and the Gartner's, Coffey's and Fedorov's imo.

The only player that really stands out in my mind that had that same kind of east-west change over was Bure.

Nah, Fedorov had amazing lateral movement at top speed too. His skating appears more impressive than Orr's to me if you don't factor in anything else. I remember seeing Sergei leave guys like Roenick and Leetch in the dust quite a few times when he first came over and he was also very very shifty for a guy his size. Just an amazing athlete and skater in his prime.

I'll admit that I just can't get past the fact that the guys chasing Orr don't look...well, not very impressive. Obviously the skates of today would have made things easier for everyone back then.

 

[Killion]

He wasn't even the greatest skater of his own time. I hear from a good source that Bobby Hull and Yvan Cournoyer were faster and better all around skaters than Orr. He's of course not far behind them. All time though, Fedorov no doubt.

I dont think so. Hull was fast alright, fast at getting into the open in order to unleash his shot, but not with the puck. With it, he tended to plod & ponder, whereas Orr was thinking 3 moves ahead and going at speeds that were virtually untouchable by Hull or anyone else of his era for that matter. I would put Hulls' speed in the same category as a Frank Mahovolich. Cournoyer was a "quick" skater laterally & straight ahead, was a superb player, but was at least a half a step behind Orr when carrying the puck. Fedorovs' speed & agility, along with many of his predecessors from the Soviet era was truly something to behold, WITH the puck or without it, and Orr wouldve had his hands full with a guy like that, but Id bet dollars to donuts #4 would come out on top in a one on one game situation.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Nah, Fedorov had amazing lateral movement at top speed too. His skating appears more impressive than Orr's to me if you don't factor in anything else. I remember seeing Sergei leave guys like Roenick and Leetch in the dust quite a few times when he first came over and he was also very very shifty for a guy his size. Just an amazing athlete and skater in his prime.

I'll admit that I just can't get past the fact that the guys chasing Orr don't look...well, not very impressive. Obviously the skates of today would have made things easier for everyone back then.

I am trying to imagine just how much better Orr would have been with Modern skates and knee procedures

Fedorov's skating was outstanding yes. But not when I compare him to Orr. Even not watching other players around him who were not as good and just focusing on him, Orr was just a demon on skates compared to everyone else.

 

[danincanada]

I dont think so. Hull was fast alright, fast at getting into the open in order to unleash his shot, but not with the puck. With it, he tended to plod & ponder, whereas Orr was thinking 3 moves ahead and going at speeds that were virtually untouchable by Hull or anyone else of his era for that matter. I would put Hulls' speed in the same category as a Frank Mahovolich. Cournoyer was a "quick" skater laterally & straight ahead, was a superb player, but was at least a half a step behind Orr when carrying the puck. Fedorovs' speed & agility, along with many of his predecessors from the Soviet era was truly something to behold, WITH the puck or without it, and Orr wouldve had his hands full with a guy like that, but Id bet dollars to donuts #4 would come out on top in a one on one game situation.

I'd bet dollars to donuts there would be a lot of disappointed people in this section if we had a time machine and gave Orr a few years to adapt. I can envision Datsyuk stripping the puck off Orr or Lidstrom stick checking him on one of his rushes just as easily as someone assuming he could walk around everyone today like he did back then. Orr wouldn't have nearly the time or space he did back then...not even close.

 

[danincanada]

I am trying to imagine just how much better Orr would have been with Modern skates and knee procedures

Fedorov's skating was outstanding yes. But not when I compare him to Orr. Even not watching other players around him who were not as good and just focusing on him, Orr was just a demon on skates compared to everyone else.

That's your problem, you can really only compare Orr to his peers the rest is nostalgiac guess work. No one actually knows how he would fair if he played today. It's an ongoing argument, and will continue to be, but in my opinion Orr wouldn't even come close to dominating the way he did back then if he played today. The league as a whole skates so much better and is so much better conditioned it's hardly comparable. Not only that but the depth and quality of talent today dwarfs the 60's and 70's when it was primarily an all-Canadian league with
so many less people to choose from.

I can play against a D level and look like an amazing skater but put me against A level competition and suddenly I don't look so hot. The eye test doesn't work but we do know hockey has evolved so much since when Orr played so I don't see how someone can essentially close the books and say someone who played 35-40 years ago was the best skater ever. It doesn't work for me anyways.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

^ no one cares.

i can't remember who said this, but it was on one of those legends of hockey episodes: "gordie howe could do everything, but not at top speed. bobby hull could do things at top speed, but not everything. bobby orr could do everything, and he did it at top speed."

 

[LiveeviL]

I would say that the best skater probably is some converted figure skater or short track skater who never made a name because he was so bad at everything else.

 

[danincanada]

^ no one cares.

i can't remember who said this, but it was on one of those legends of hockey episodes: "gordie howe could do everything, but not at top speed. bobby hull could do things at top speed, but not everything. bobby orr could do everything, and he did it at top speed."

No one cares or do some people just like to stick their head in the sand and pretend nothing has changed in the world of hockey since the 70's?

If we're going by fluff pieces like Legends of Hockey than I'll just stay out of this one. If Orr is the greatest skater ever than I guess Jesse Owens is still the greatest sprinter. Praising the legends of the sport is fun but can we at least be a tiny bit realistic here?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

No one cares or do some people just like to stick their head in the sand and pretend nothing has changed in the world of hockey since the 70's?

If we're going by fluff pieces like Legends of Hockey than I'll just stay out of this one. If Orr is the greatest skater ever than I guess Jesse Owens is still the greatest sprinter. Praising the legends of the sport is fun but can we at least be a tiny bit realistic here?

nope. nobody cares because it has been debated to death.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=140503

 

[overpass]

No one cares or do some people just like to stick their head in the sand and pretend nothing has changed in the world of hockey since the 70's?

If we're going by fluff pieces like Legends of Hockey than I'll just stay out of this one. If Orr is the greatest skater ever than I guess Jesse Owens is still the greatest sprinter. Praising the legends of the sport is fun but can we at least be a tiny bit realistic here?

Some people think players of the past are worthy of admiration for what they accmplished in their time, instead of dismissing them with some "everything new is better" ideology of progress.

 

[danincanada]

Some people think players of the past are worthy of admiration for what they accmplished in their time, instead of dismissing them with some "everything new is better" ideology of progress.

Players of the past are worthy of admiration but this section tends to go way overboard with that admiration in my opinion.

You can respect what they did at the time but still be realistic that it may not work as well now simply because the depth and quality of talent has grown in relation to the number of countries and people playing the game today. It's so bloody obvious and it should come up every time someone claims a player from 30, 40 or 50 years ago was the best ever at a component of the game.

The biggest reason for that admiration to me is that these "legends" paved the way and helped make the game what it is today. We are all hockey fans so we should respect them for what they did. That doesn't mean we have to hail them as the best player, best skater, best whatever out of respect. I want some realism in those discussions and it doesn't seem to be happening here.

 

[canucks4ever]

Players of the past are worthy of admiration but this section tends to go way overboard with that admiration in my opinion.

You can respect what they did at the time but still be realistic that it may not work as well now simply because the depth and quality of talent has grown in relation to the number of countries and people playing the game today. It's so bloody obvious and it should come up every time someone claims a player from 30, 40 or 50 years ago was the best ever at a component of the game.

The biggest reason for that admiration to me is that these "legends" paved the way and helped make the game what it is today. We are all hockey fans so we should respect them for what they did. That doesn't mean we have to hail them as the best player, best skater, best whatever out of respect. I want some realism in those discussions and it doesn't seem to be happening here.

What is your realism, that bobby orr and gordie howe would get schooled by players like marian hossa or drew doughty?

Ray Bourque was a first team all star in 1979, and then became a first team all star in 2001. Joe Sakic scored 100 points in 1990 and then repeated that feat in 2007. Dominik Hasek was still a very good goalie in 2007 at the age of 42. Patrick Roy was a conn smythewinner in 1986, and then had a great year in 2003.

This modern era garbage is ridiculous.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

There are a couple of interpretations of "greatest skater" of all-time. First off, it comes down to different groups:

Best skater based on pure speed (random order): Bure, Gartner, Cournoyer, Coffey, Orr, Bondra

Best skater based on most beautiful fluid skater: Perreault, Lafleur, Coffey, Orr, Fedorov, Hull, Beliveau and maybe even Modano when Hitchcock let him

Best skater based on who could use it best in the context of the game: Orr, Coffey, Fedorov, Hull, Beliveau, Lafleur


The thing with Gartner and Cournoyer and even Bure and Bondra is that they flew like the wind but had more of a choppy style of skating I thought. Bure didn't use his speed to backcheck though so half the time he wasted it, but when he had the puck.........

Perreault looked lovely the way he skated and I often feel that he played better than his point totals indicated (which were pretty good to start). Beliveau was another lovely skater as was Fedorov.

To me, the "best skaters" fall into the last category. Guys who could use it the best in the confines of an NHL game vs. the competition. This is probably the most difficult thing to do in the NHL

I'd consider Scott Niedermayer on some of these lists as well.

 

[seventieslord]

If it's a comparison to his peers, it's Bobby Orr, and then probably Paul Coffey.

The thing about Orr's skating is, I'm not convinced that it was THAT fast in terms of top speed, compared to his peers. Oh, it may still have been the fastest of its day, I'm just not sure Howie Morenz and Bobby Hull weren't even more dominant speed-wise.

However, I think his skating "skill" was unparalleled. The acceleration, the turning, knowing where to go. I realize that once we go down this road, we are in a grey area as to what counts as part of his "skating skills" and what counts as other skills, such as stickhandling, anticipation, and hockey sense.

But yeah, my gut says Orr.

 

[danincanada]

What is your realism, that bobby orr and gordie howe would get schooled by players like marian hossa or drew doughty?

Ray Bourque was a first team all star in 1979, and then became a first team all star in 2001. Joe Sakic scored 100 points in 1990 and then repeated that feat in 2007. Dominik Hasek was still a very good goalie in 2007 at the age of 42. Patrick Roy was a conn smythewinner in 1986, and then had a great year in 2003.

This modern era garbage is ridiculous.

For those 4 examples of great players who adapted, improved and worked hard enough to remain elite for 15-20 years I can show you way more examples of players who couldn't keep up and adapt with the changing and advancing game. And that's only 15-20 years. When we start talking about Orr, Harvey and Shore we're talking about a much larger time span than that.

It's not ridiculous at all and somewhere in between my view and yours is probably where the truth sits.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

No one cares or do some people just like to stick their head in the sand and pretend nothing has changed in the world of hockey since the 70's?

If we're going by fluff pieces like Legends of Hockey than I'll just stay out of this one. If Orr is the greatest skater ever than I guess Jesse Owens is still the greatest sprinter. Praising the legends of the sport is fun but can we at least be a tiny bit realistic here?

I'd love to see how great modern NHLer's would look wearing these on their feet:

 

[Silver]

I'd love to see how great modern NHLer's would look wearing these on their feet:

About 10 years ago in a beer league game we noticed during warmups there was an old guy on the other team with post skates like that. We all laughed, and then he put up a hat trick against us.

 

[JT Dutch*]

... What I've found in the time I've been here is that no one is going to make headway in a thread on this forum arguing that Bobby Orr wasn't the best at whatever hockey skill happens to be brought up. 99.9% of those who HAVE seen Orr play maintain he's the best ever, and the rest of us haven't seen him except for highlights and the rare game video - so what can possibly be said about him?

Of those players I HAVE seen, Paul Coffey was the best skater I ever saw. The Oilers of the 80s would have their "speed skate" drills in practice, and Coffey would always take the last lap around the rink skating backward and still beat nearly everyone else.

 

[Silver]

Coffey had a very flat grind on his skates, didn't he?