Greatest goal scorer ever? Ovy or?

[txpd]

Gretzsky easily...not too mention while putting up ridiculous goal totals was more focused on getting assists in his career.

Easily? How do you figure? I am willing to entertain good arguments in that direction but easily? Like as in no contest? Its not close? Please. That's just ridiculous. The difference in the quality quality of goaltending, team defense and video game prep in the Ovechkin era is off the charts. Ov has the new sticks in his corner. That's it.

 

[34]

OV easily the best goal scorer in the modern NHL. No other player even comes close.

 

[bobholly39]

What's the delineation between "greatest" and "best"?

Mario Lemieux was the best at scoring goals imo.

He didnt play enough to accomplish enough to be called the "greatest".

I mean a simpler parallel.

Whose the better hockey player today - mcdavid or ovechkin? Now - whose greater?

 

[Albatros]

Also, adjusted stats favour DPE players because of how large a percentage of goals were scored on the PP (where star players play more)

I wouldn't agree that there is any significant difference compared to the late 1980s and the early 1990s at least. If we look at the annual changes within the 20-year period between 1984 and 2004 there's some yearly fluctuation but not such constant increase that it would significantly affect anything. In the 1980s a Gretzky would have played well over 20 minutes per game anyway even if the share of even-strength goals was a tiny bit higher some particular years. The share of PP goals, the highest five bolded and the lowest five in italics:

1984/85 22.88 %
1985/86 25.69 %
1986/87 24.52 %
1987/88 29.92 %
1988/89 28.34 %
1989/90 25.82 %
1990/91 25.72 %
1991/92 27.87 %
1992/93 28.37 %
1993/94 27.78 %
1994/95 25.75 %
1995/96 28.66 %
1996/97 22.95 %
1997/98 26.52 %
1998/99 26.24 %
1999/00 23.64 %
2000/01 27.54 %
2001/02 24.81 %
2002/03 27.55 %
2003/04 27.24 %

 

[Golden_Jet]

I'll take hockey writer's opinions over random Hfers. Here's another article in case you missed the other one above...

The NHL's 25 Best Pure Goal Scorers of All Time

Again, not saying best ever because of his back/shortened career, but it was enough to create enough damage reg season/playoffs to be top 3 in a lot of writer's lists.

In his 10 years...http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...ameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=goals

Look at 14 years of Bobby Hull before he jumped leagues and became the poster boy for the new league, and scored over 300 in that one.

He scored over 215 goals more than the closest competitor over a 14 year period.
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...r=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,assists

 

[Fantomas]

Mario, then Ovechkin. But close.

 

[Fantomas]

Gretzky was only 23 the last time he lead the league in goals per game

It defies logic that the very best goal scorer ever couldn't lead the league in that category after the age of 23

He was 26. That's 62 goals in 86-87.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Gretzky nobody else is close he put up twice as many assists at same time scoring most goals. Anybody else on this option list do that? Imagine he didn't pass so much he'd have scored even more. Crosby no idea why he's even an option.

 

[Newsworthy]

I think Mario was the best goal scorer of all time.

 

[Newsworthy]

Easily? How do you figure? I am willing to entertain good arguments in that direction but easily? Like as in no contest? Its not close? Please. That's just ridiculous. The difference in the quality quality of goaltending, team defense and video game prep in the Ovechkin era is off the charts. Ov has the new sticks in his corner. That's it.

New sticks, new equipment, new skates better training facility and rinks and arenas.
And no none of these goalies you talk about are as good as the likes of Hasek, Roy, Belfour, Brodeur, and Joseph.
The majority of the people voting for Ovechkin have never even seen Mario, Bossy or Wayne play.

 

[Neutrinos]

He was 26. That's 62 goals in 86-87.

No, he was 23

I said GOALS PER GAME, not total goals

 

[Newsworthy]

Gretzky's got the record only because he played his peak during an exceptional high-scoring era, he doesn't belong to this discussion. Ovechkin, Hull, Jágr, Selänne.

Gretzky has the record because he's the greatest player of all time. That's why he has the nickname.
He happen to play in the highest scoring era of all time but so did many others

 

[Albatros]

Gretzky has the record because he's the greatest player of all time. That's why he has the nickname.

Actually he got the nickname in peewee hockey already.

 

[txpd]

New sticks, new equipment, new skates better training facility and rinks and arenas.
And no none of these goalies you talk about are as good as the likes of Hasek, Roy, Belfour, Brodeur, and Joseph.
The majority of the people voting for Ovechkin have never even seen Mario, Bossy or Wayne play.

Maybe. When I was 14 the Washington Capitals were born. My neighborhood was 10 minutes from the arena and 5 from the practice rink. The entire team moved into my neighborhood. I knew them. The Washington Post beat writer was a friend. Lived in my neighborhood too. I coached his son in soccer. With his opening the door I became the beat writer for a Monday thru Friday paper in the dc metro. I was in the locker room. As a high schooler. I saw them all play.

Save your lecture. Ok?

 

[Fantomas]

No, he was 23

I said GOALS PER GAME, not total goals

Whoops, ma bad.

 

[Frenchy]

Bossy for me

 

[Neutrinos]

I voted Lemieux, but I was interpreting "greatest" to mean "best"

Greatest? Ovechkin certainly has an argument, as does Gretzky, Bobby Hull, Richard and Mario

One thing to consider is Richard, Ovechkin and Hull often had seasons where they finished with more goals than assists, so they weren't overly concerned with getting their teammates involved once the puck was on their stick

In fact, Hull, Richard and Ovechkin have more goals than assists in their NHL careers

Imagine if Mario and Gretzky focused on being exclusively snipers, rather than all-around offensive threats

 

[spiny norman]

Lemieux, followed closely by Bossy and Bobby Hull.

Then Ovechkin.

 

[TheGuiminator]

Mario had the best scoring touch I’ve ever seen

However, he didn’t play long enough to be the greatest goal scorer of all time. I guess he could have a case, but not as strong as Gretzky or Ovechkin

 

[Laveuglette]

Lol'd at the options. I'd say Maurice Richard, followed by Bobby Hull. Can't believe Crosby is a choice.

Richard is massively underrated on here. OV may have great numbers, but he doesn't play in the same context (thankfully, honestly). Doesn't have to score goals half unconscious.

 

[Newsworthy]

Maybe. When I was 14 the Washington Capitals were born. My neighborhood was 10 minutes from the arena and 5 from the practice rink. The entire team moved into my neighborhood. I knew them. The Washington Post beat writer was a friend. Lived in my neighborhood too. I coached his son in soccer. With his opening the door I became the beat writer for a Monday thru Friday paper in the dc metro. I was in the locker room. As a high schooler. I saw them all play.

Save your lecture. Ok?

I'm not lecturing anyone.
This entire thread is in the wrong forum. It should be in the History of Hockey forum.
Only reason why it's here because Ovie just scored his 40 th goal of the year.

 

[Frankie41987]

I calculated Era-adjusted goals per game by dividing Era-adjusted goals found here: NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Goals | Hockey-Reference.com by career games played. Here are the results:

Ovechkin: .69
Lemieux: .67
Bossy: .61
Bob Hull: .61
Bret Hull: .58
Howe: .52
Selanne: .51
Gretzky: .51
Jagr: .48

Keep in mind this doesn't take into account career length. Players with shorter careers (Bossy and Lemieux, Ovechkin) will look better and longer careers will look worse. It'd be difficult to adjust for that other than perhaps look at Era-adjusted goals per game in a players first 10 years but who has time for that.

 

[Laveuglette]

I calculated Era-adjusted goals per game by dividing Era-adjusted goals found here: NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Goals | Hockey-Reference.com by career games played. Here are the results:

Ovechkin: .69
Lemieux: .67
Bossy: .61
Bob Hull: .61
Bret Hull: .58
Howe: .52
Selanne: .51
Gretzky: .51
Jagr: .48

Keep in mind this doesn't take into account career length. Players with shorter careers (Bossy and Lemieux, Ovechkin) will look better and longer careers will look worse. It'd be difficult to adjust for that other than perhaps look at Era-adjusted goals per game in a players first 10 years but who has time for that.

There's no such thing as "era adjusted points". It's numbers games for people who don't understand hockey, nor numbers.

 

[Vaporwave]

There's no such thing as "era adjusted points". It's numbers games for people who don't understand hockey, nor numbers.

He's citing era adjusted goals. The site explains how they do it, click on "adjusted statistics".

Pretty arrogant to say that something doesn't exist because you don't like or believe in it.

 

[Plural]

There's no such thing as "era adjusted points". It's numbers games for people who don't understand hockey, nor numbers.

There are such things. Just because you are incapable of understanding the simple logic behind scoring-levels doesn't mean the rest of the world is too.