Greatest goal scorer ever? Ovy or?

[AD1066]

I think what many of us consider greatest/greatness is a combination of accomplishments and pure ability.

Gretzky is the most accomplished over a career, but given the difference in scoring levels, I'd argue that if Ovechkin ends his career with 750+, he'll have strong claim towards that title, and 800+ should be indisputable for anyone fairly considering the ways in which the sport has changed these past thirty-some years.

Pure ability, for my money, is Lemieux. That remains of of reach, since we've already seen Ovechkin's best. But he's not far off there either, and his 65 goal season is one of the best in the history of the game.

I'm admittedly a huge fan of Ovi, but given the combination of his high peak and ridiculous durability thus far, I think he's on the brink of GOAT status, and if he can play at a high level for a few more seasons and keep adding to his total, he'll be deserving of the title.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

I'm not lecturing anyone.
This entire thread is in the wrong forum. It should be in the History of Hockey forum.
Only reason why it's here because Ovie just scored his 40 th goal of the year.

You're right, it should be in the HOH. I don't think anyone there is clueless enough to vote for Bossy.

 

[Frankie41987]

There's no such thing as "era adjusted points". It's numbers games for people who don't understand hockey, nor numbers.

What does that even mean? This is one of the posts where I don’t even need to defend myself because there is no sense to be made from it. Thank you.

 

[Vaporwave]

You're right, it should be in the HOH. I don't think anyone there is clueless enough to vote for Bossy.

Funny that it bothers you so much. By your join date, I'm assuming that you never saw him play.

The sooner you accept that Bossy will get some votes for the greatest goal scorer in any forum until the end of time, you'll waste less energy pushing back.


"Chris Peters, hockey prospects analyst: I'm going with Mike Bossy, with Ovechkin a very close second. I think Ovechkin is probably one of the game's best pure shooters and I was 3 years old when Bossy retired, but looking at the numbers, what Bossy did is mind-blowing. The fact that he ended up playing only 10 seasons when a bad back cut his career short is all that probably keeps him from being the no-brainer in this discussion. Bossy topped 50 goals in every season but his last, and topped 60 five times. He's the NHL's all-time leader in goals per game (minimum 300 games played) and had a career shooting percentage of an absurd 21.2 percent. Yes, goalies were stopping pucks at a far lower rate in Bossy's prime, but he was special even by that era's standards. One wonders what would have happened had he stayed healthy for longer."

I'll take a hockey analyst's take. Once again, I'm not saying that Bossy was the best. But if you're mad that he gets votes and is in the conversation, I can't help you with that.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Funny that it bothers you so much. By your join date, I'm assuming that you never saw him play.

The sooner you accept that Bossy will get some votes for the greatest goal scorer in any forum until the end of time, you'll waste less energy pushing back.


"Chris Peters, hockey prospects analyst: I'm going with Mike Bossy, with Ovechkin a very close second. I think Ovechkin is probably one of the game's best pure shooters and I was 3 years old when Bossy retired, but looking at the numbers, what Bossy did is mind-blowing. The fact that he ended up playing only 10 seasons when a bad back cut his career short is all that probably keeps him from being the no-brainer in this discussion. Bossy topped 50 goals in every season but his last, and topped 60 five times. He's the NHL's all-time leader in goals per game (minimum 300 games played) and had a career shooting percentage of an absurd 21.2 percent. Yes, goalies were stopping pucks at a far lower rate in Bossy's prime, but he was special even by that era's standards. One wonders what would have happened had he stayed healthy for longer."

I'll take a hockey analyst's take. Once again, I'm not saying that Bossy was the best. But if you're mad that he gets votes, I can't help you with that.

I'm not "mad" that he gets votes, it's just hilarious. You can post whatever you want, but nothing beats facts. And the facts say that Gretzky tore Bossy a new hole head to head. How is the #2 of his era getting votes for #1 all time? That would be like voting for Stamkos over Ovechkin.

 

[Vaporwave]

I'm not "mad" that he gets votes, it's just hilarious. You can post whatever you want, but nothing beats facts. And the facts say that Gretzky tore Bossy a new hole head to head. How is the #2 of his era getting votes for #1 all time? That would be like voting for Stamkos over Ovechkin.

Please show me where I say that Bossy > Gretz.

You said that the poll should be in the HOH because no one would be fool enough to give Bossy a vote. Petty and ridiculous. I could understand if he was winning the poll.

People vote because they watched him play. Many still say he was the purest goal scorer ever.

No one else scored scored 17 playoff goals 3 years in a row winning Cups the way he did. 51 playoff goals in 56 games in a row. Never done before and doubtful again. Gretzky's best 3 year stretch in the playoffs was 32 goals in 53 games from '83-'85 for comparison. Facts, not even close. You won't discuss that though. Those goals are the most important, outside of his leading GPG of all time.

I'm done arguing with you. Bossy deserves and earned his place among the top 3 or top 5 all time. Players like that will always get votes. Deal with it.

 

[93gilmour93]

Mario. Just imagine if Lemieux never had back problems or dealt with cancer and played another 550-600 games. He would have Gretzky's record

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

It's Gretzky and everyone who says otherwise is just wrong. He scored 92 goals in a season while being a pass first player. Ovechkin scores a lot because he shoots more than any other player to ever play the game. Gretzky was always looking for the pass first, and would only shoot if he knew it was his best or only way to get his team a goal. I'm sure if Gretzky played with the same level of selfishness with the puck as Ovechkin he would have a few 100 goal seasons, and easily over 1000 goals.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

I calculated Era-adjusted goals per game by dividing Era-adjusted goals found here: NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Goals | Hockey-Reference.com by career games played. Here are the results:

Ovechkin: .69
Lemieux: .67
Bossy: .61
Bob Hull: .61
Bret Hull: .58
Howe: .52
Selanne: .51
Gretzky: .51
Jagr: .48

Keep in mind this doesn't take into account career length. Players with shorter careers (Bossy and Lemieux, Ovechkin) will look better and longer careers will look worse. It'd be difficult to adjust for that other than perhaps look at Era-adjusted goals per game in a players first 10 years but who has time for that.

Fun to look at but era-adjusted statistics should never be taken seriously. They are very flawed, although an interesting concept.

 

[The Macho King]

First - it's really crazy that Bobby Hull - the only other guy with a good argument - isn't even an option in the poll.

Second - the interesting parallel is that Bobby Hull left the league after his age 33 season for the WHA, so there's a bit of "what if" at play (Hull not shockingly tore up the WHA).

Ovi has a really good argument. Hull probably has one or two retro-rockets he missed from not playing full seasons, but so does Ovi. Also, Ovi has the edge in not being a colossal piece of shit as a human being.

 

[illpucks]

Crosby? No Brett Hull?

 

[Sparksrus3]

Mike Bossy the greatest sniper on the wing ever. When your career avg is .76 goals a game or 60 per 80 there can not be any arguments.
While all the others are obviously among the greatest ever the OP asks a very specific question and there is only one answer. Bossy was a goal scorers goal scorer.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Please show me where I say that Bossy > Gretz.

You said that the poll should be in the HOH because no one would be fool enough to give Bossy a vote. Petty and ridiculous. I could understand if he was winning the poll.

People vote because they watched him play. Many still say he was the purest goal scorer ever.

No one else scored scored 17 playoff goals 3 years in a row winning Cups the way he did. 51 playoff goals in 56 games in a row. Never done before and doubtful again. Gretzky's best 3 year stretch in the playoffs was 32 goals in 53 games from '83-'85 for comparison. Facts, not even close. You won't discuss that though. Those goals are the most important, outside of his leading GPG of all time.

I'm done arguing with you. Bossy deserves and earned his place among the top 3 or top 5 all time. Players like that will always get votes. Deal with it.

Never said you said that.

People vote because they didn't see him play. If they did they would know he was a clear #2 of his own era.

His playoff record is great. Doesn't make up for his lack of rockets and longevity.

That's nice but the op is asking for GOAT, not top 3 or 5. A guy who was the clear #2 of his era has zero argument for being the GOAT. People who vote for him just look at his GPG with zero context and ignore the facts. You aren't arguing anything because there is no argument. Bossy doesn't belong in this discussion.

 

[Cup or Bust]

Lemieux is the best I have ever seen.

 

[Sparksrus3]

Never said you said that.

People vote because they didn't see him play. If they did they would know he was a clear #2 of his own era.

His playoff record is great. Doesn't make up for his lack of rockets and longevity.

That's nice but the op is asking for GOAT, not top 3 or 5. A guy who was the clear #2 of his era has zero argument for being the GOAT. People who vote for him just look at his GPG with zero context and ignore the facts. You aren't arguing anything because there is no argument. Bossy doesn't belong in this discussion.

Bossy was Mr Clutch. He was a 50 in 50 player . Go see his goal against the Canucks in the finals with both skates off the ice . His stats don't even tell the whole story . 85 playoff goals . He could score a goal from the 5th hole at Bethpage. Bossy doesn't belong in the discussion ? Bossy is the discussion

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Bossy was Mr Clutch. He was a 50 in 50 player . Go see his goal against the Canucks in the finals with both skates off the ice . His stats don't even tell the whole story . 85 playoff goals . He could score a goal from the 5th hole at Bethpage. Bossy doesn't belong in the discussion ? Bossy is the discussion

When careers overlapped (79/80-86/87)

Bossy: 451 goals in 679 GP = 0.66 GPG
Gretzky: 543 goals in 632 GP = 0.86 GPG

Rockets:
Ovechkin/Hull: 7
Gretzky/Howe/Richard: 5
Lemieux: 3
Bossy: 2

GPG wins:
Ovechkin/Hull: 8
Lemieux: 6
Richard: 5
Gretzky/Howe: 3
Bossy: 1

Combined:
Ovechkin/Hull: 15
Richard: 10
Lemieux: 9
Gretzky/Howe: 8
Bossy: 3

Bossy GOAT!!

 

[Vaporwave]

Bossy was Mr Clutch. He was a 50 in 50 player . Go see his goal against the Canucks in the finals with both skates off the ice . His stats don't even tell the whole story . 85 playoff goals . He could score a goal from the 5th hole at Bethpage. Bossy doesn't belong in the discussion ? Bossy is the discussion

He's not worth arguing with. Obviously never saw him play. Those who did know. Probably the best playoff goal scorer all time. He's one of the greatest, period.

 

[Sparksrus3]

When careers overlapped (79/80-86/87)

Bossy: 451 goals in 679 GP = 0.66 GPG
Gretzky: 543 goals in 632 GP = 0.86 GPG

Rockets:
Ovechkin/Hull: 7
Gretzky/Howe/Richard: 5
Lemieux: 3
Bossy: 2

GPG wins:
Ovechkin/Hull: 8
Lemieux: 6
Richard: 5
Gretzky/Howe: 3
Bossy: 1

Combined:
Ovechkin/Hull: 15
Richard: 10
Lemieux: 9
Gretzky/Howe: 8
Bossy: 3

Bossy GOAT!!

What's with all these guys not even on the OPs list ? Also I didn't realize now we are picking and choosing seasons . Gretzky was the greatest player ever . Bossy was the greatest goal scorer.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

He's not worth arguing with. Obviously never saw him play. Those who did know. Probably the best playoff goal scorer all time. He's one of the greatest, period.

You're twisting into "1 of the greatest". I NEVER said he's not one of the greatest, I'm saying he has no argument for #1. You guys are using opinion and your feelings, look at the facts. And I've seen him play, but of course that's your "argument" when every fact goes against you.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

What's with all these guys not even on the OPs list ? Also I didn't realize now we are picking and choosing seasons . Gretzky was the greatest player ever . Bossy was the greatest goal scorer.

We aren't picking and choosing, those are the seasons their careers overlapped. And it's 90% of Bossy's career so it's more than enough to tell the story. Please explain how the GOAT only won 2 rockets?

 

[Dingo]

Some extremely funny options. Crosby and Bossy were vastly overshadowed by two of the guys on this list while in the same league. Crosby might nit even be better than Stamkos.

Bobby Hull is very obviously an option, and I would make a spot for Bure simply because he was the sniper here without ideal linemates.

Ovechkin and Hull pretty clearly if you like longevity. Lemieux and Gretz, and maybe Brett Hull and Bure if you dont need that and can look at other factors.

Bossy had Trottier, ffs, and finished behind Gretzky every year, while Gretzky was a playmaker first.

Crosby? Crosby???

 

[Dingo]

You're twisting into "1 of the greatest". I NEVER said he's not one of the greatest, I'm saying he has no argument for #1. You guys are using opinion and your feelings, look at the facts. And I've seen him play, but of course that's your "argument" when every fact goes against you.

it is very obvious you cant be the greatest of all time if you werent the greatest of your own time.

 

[Dingo]

Gretzky he's got the record so he's the best it's that simple

that is, admittedly, very simple.

Provided you are willing to claim that Maruk, Stastny, Nilsson, Goulet and several others peaked higher than Crosby, and that Hextall, Roy and Van beezer couldnt crack the league, then ya, i guess.

Amazing coincidence that we produced 50% of the greatest all time offensive talent out of one generation, yet couldnt find a goalie who could stop a puck at over a .900%

 

[authentic]

that is, admittedly, very simple.

Provided you are willing to claim that Maruk, Stastny, Nilsson, Goulet and several others peaked higher than Crosby, and that Hextall, Roy and Van beezer couldnt crack the league, then ya, i guess.

Amazing coincidence that we produced 50% of the greatest all time offensive talent out of one generation, yet couldnt find a goalie who could stop a puck at over a .900%

It wasn't just the goalies either, the defensive coverage was non existent compared to the game today.

Ovechkin is already the best goal scorer of all time. If Lemieux was healthier it could've been him but he wasn't, and Gretzky didn't age well when it came to goal scoring.

 

[The Abusement Park]

It's OV.

Bossy doesn't belong in this discussion.

Lol wat.