WJC: Greatest Collapse or Greatest Comeback

[Evil Romano]

Aren't fans of NHL teams cocky?

Philly fans come to mind a lot.

Pens fans at times.

The hate between Montreal and Boston fans is epic.

Toronto and Ottawa fans despise each other.

Fans of Crobsy vs Ovechkin would kill each other if given the chance it seems at times.

I recall USA hockey after the embarrassment in Boston in 1996 saying they were going to start a program to beat Canada. Is that being cocky?

I think too much is put into this "being cocky" thing. So some fans have "it's our game" signs, whoppee.....it is our winter national sport.

It's played by more Canadians than any other nation. (US a very close 2nd)

Something like 30% of the NHL's revenue comes from Canada.

Over 52% of the players are Canadian.

Canadian broadcasters pay millions to air games.

We're no different than any other nation. We're passionate about the game, as other countries are passionate about their games.

Ever seen the little league world series? Americans waving flags at a tournament of 11 and 12 year olds.

Yes, we're cocky, passionate, damn right nuts about our game.

I don't want it any other way.

The only thing I don't like is the Canadian heart is better crap.

You're clearly missing the point. I'm not talking about regular rivalry between teams in certain professional or amateur leagues - I'm talking about rivalry between nations during international occasions, the climate in question; additionally, the characteristics of each country. It has nothing to with whether Americans are cocky and disrespectful during a game in the NHL between two rivals, the Swedes in the SEL, the Russians in the KHL etc - but the fact that when it comes to the WJC, the Canadians display their features more than well. We all know this happens wherever you look, as explained earlier.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I watched the third period again. All five of the Russian goals were good goals and involved tremendous skill and play-making ability. Gotta give them credit there. That being said, they still only had 10 shots and the flow of play was pretty even, the Russians just played much better in the offensive zone and created great scoring chances, which they converted. Giving up 5 goals on 10 shots is terrible any way you slice it though. None of the goals Visentin allowed were soft ones but you have to rely on your goaltender to make at least a couple of really strong saves in a period against an offensively explosive team like the Russians, which Visentin was not able to do.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

Greatest comeback - to call it anything else would be a little disrespectful to Team Russia's accomplishment, no? They did what they needed to do to win, Canada didn't.

 

[shveik]

Of course you wouldn't call it a "comeback"...

You are simplifying the very nature of hockey. The fact that Russia got a 5-0 win in one period does not automatically mean that they would have gotten another 10 goals over the next forty minutes (A comeback like that goes heavy on the feet), and it doesn't mean that it was a result of the collapse. Against Norway, you scored 6 goals in the first period (and evidently you had the advantage against a tired, less skillful team) - yet you didn't score another 6 in the second, and certainly not in the third. The game itself isn't plain as pikestaff - everything has an effect on the game, the goalscoring, goalkeeping and what not. The "structure" of the game does not indicate a solid "increase" of the goals by even numbers or playing at the exact and "solidly even" and consistent level at all times. It's not math. Goals don't just happen, there is more to put into account more than just the simple theory of math, of which you're seemingly trying to add to your conclusion.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: spectacular comebacks do happen every now and then, and when they do, this usually results in a significant "collapse" (disadvantage) for the opponent.

Collapse? To a certain extent, yes.
Epic and spectacular comeback? Yes!

Quite honestly I do not see a significant disagreement between what you are saying and what I am saying. So, I am attributing this to a bit of misunderstanding.

Sure, Norway did not lose 18-3, after losing 1st period of the game, because the game wasn't played the same way for 60 minutes. Canada rolled different lines, and their effort wasn't at 100%. Had they been firing on all cylinders, I do not doubt that Canada would score closer to 18 goals than to 10 in that game (and they'd score even fewer than 10 if Schenn wasn't so eager ). But those 20 minutes of domination are comparable to the 3rd period of Canada-Russia game. I think you'll agree that Russia doesn't outclass Canada the same way Canada outclasses Norway. Such mismatch between similar level teams doesn't happen without one team choking under pressure. It's not as bad as USSR choking in the Miracle on Ice, even though the US scoring wasn't as prolific, they overcome a vastly superior team. In this case, like I said, while Canada's team was a bit better, the advantage is nowhere close to those teams. But losing a period 0-5 to a similar level opponent, and not having to play shorthanded, is a serious choke job, no matter what. That doesn't take any credit away from the Russian team. It takes great character not to fold under pressure of 0-3 deficit, and they didn't. Instead, they played with more, rather than less inspiration. Their finals win, combined with the 1/4 and 1/2 wins (as if the final wasn't amazing enough), give this Russian team a special place in WJHC history in my book.

 

[pashazz]

That really worked well in the olympics.

I think we will have a better team in Sochi, on big rinks. And almostly all our players will play in KHL.

 

[Jussi]

I think we will have a better team in Sochi, on big rinks. And almostly all our players will play in KHL.

They won't be big rinks for sure. NHL wants small rinks for Olympics.

 

[pashazz]

They won't be big rinks for sure. NHL wants small rinks for Olympics.

Maybe NHL are Gods? Or, maybe they are managers of IIHF?
The Olympics will be in Russia, so rinks will be in KHL standards.

KHL and RHF didn`t told to NHL about big rinks.

 

[Sentinel]

I think we will have a better team in Sochi, on big rinks. And almostly all our players will play in KHL.

Oh, God, I hope not! KHL players SUCKED in Vancouver... with the possible exception of Kalinin.

 

[Sergei DRW]

Oh, God, I hope not! KHL players SUCKED in Vancouver... with the possible exception of Kalinin.

It depends what players.
KHL players won the WC 2009.
On the other hand the way Ovechkin and Semin sucked in WC 2010 against the Czechs can't be described.
The only person who bailed those NHLers out was Datsyuk.

It is all about the attitude, if it is missing, it doesn't really matter which league they are playing in.

 

[DahaRussia]

It depends what players.
KHL players won the WC 2009.
On the other hand the way Ovechkin and Semin sucked in WC 2010 against the Czechs can't be described.
The only person who bailed those NHLers out was Datsyuk.

It is all about the attitude, if it is missing, it doesn't really matter which league they are playing in.

It is exact!

 

[99GoHabsGo99]

both

 

[CanadianHockey]

Comeback.
The Russians brought out their true colours in the third, and it wasn't so much Canada collapsing as the Russian skill finally producing. Canada still had pretty good puck possession in the third, and the Russian goals were more the result of great plays than of terrible coverage.

 

[Beorc]

Oh, God, I hope not! KHL players SUCKED in Vancouver... with the possible exception of Kalinin.

It doesn't matter on big Sochi's rinks that they sucked on Vancouver's small rinks. Am I wrong?

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Just remember, a 3 goal lead is at all times 10 seconds away from being a 2 goal lead (or a 4 goal lead for that matter)

 

[pouskin74*]

Maybe NHL are Gods? Or, maybe they are managers of IIHF?
The Olympics will be in Russia, so rinks will be in KHL standards.

KHL and RHF didn`t told to NHL about big rinks.

they are not gods but they are DECIDERS! you want it or not

 

[WarriorofTime]

Just remember, a 3 goal lead is at all times 10 seconds away from being a 2 goal lead (or a 4 goal lead for that matter)

In this case a 3 goal lead was 11 seconds away from being a 1 goal lead..

 

[Uncle Rotter]

In this case a 3 goal lead was 11 seconds away from being a 1 goal lead..

Russia's odds of winning improved from about 5% to almost 50% in less than 15 seconds

 

[Sentinel]

It depends what players.
KHL players won the WC 2009.
On the other hand the way Ovechkin and Semin sucked in WC 2010 against the Czechs can't be described.
The only person who bailed those NHLers out was Datsyuk.

It is all about the attitude, if it is missing, it doesn't really matter which league they are playing in.

Don't know which WC you watched. WC08 was won by Semin and Kovalchuk. WC09 was won by Bryzgalov. Vancouver was lost by pretty much everybody, but Nikulin, Korneev, and Kozlov were by the worst. Same for WC10.

You can have all the attitude and "heart" in the world, but if you are not used to being pressured when with the puck and making quick decisions, and your coach doesn't know how to match lines, you will have your ass handed to you.

 

[DahaRussia]

Don't know which WC you watched. WC08 was won by Semin and Kovalchuk. WC09 was won by Bryzgalov. Vancouver was lost by pretty much everybody, but Nikulin, Korneev, and Kozlov were by the worst. Same for WC10.

You can have all the attitude and "heart" in the world, but if you are not used to being pressured when with the puck and making quick decisions, and your coach doesn't know how to match lines, you will have your ass handed to you.

For the sake of justice i will tell that Ovechkin also has not shown Itself in play off in the World championship-2010! So silly to write off errors only on players KHL or only on players of NHL...
Loses - a team!..

 

[Dr Pepper]

Not going to read this whole thread, maybe it's already been mentioned, but during the intermission the Russian coach told his players that all they needed was to score just one goal.

Just one.

He was right.

 

[HemskyToHall*]

Worst collapse by a goalie, Visentin choked.

 

[DahaRussia]

Not going to read this whole thread, maybe it's already been mentioned, but during the intermission the Russian coach told his players that all they needed was to score just one goal.

Just one.

He was right.

Yes, just one - "in time of the first 5 minutes!"
But Russians scores two goals...

 

[Sentinel]

Actually, he told them all that in the 1st intermission (which is when he broke the board). You could tell Russians stepped it up in the 2nd period and the game evened out. But the puck would not go in until the 3rd period.

Can't believe people are blaming Vizentin. None of the goals were actually "bad." He could have stopped the 2nd and the 5th, but then again, they weren't really BAD goals.

P.S. Ovechkin was terrible in both Vancouver and Cologne. He is just too one-dimensional and neurotic. Once other players figured him out, his scoring went downhill, and he has been having problems coping.

 

[Jussi]

Maybe NHL are Gods? Or, maybe they are managers of IIHF?
The Olympics will be in Russia, so rinks will be in KHL standards.

KHL and RHF didn`t told to NHL about big rinks.

Perhaps you didn't understand, the NHL will (likely) set small rinks as conditions for their players participation in Olympics. There was something about it in Finnish papers last year, I think Kalervo Kummola (head of Finnish hockey fed, one of the high ups in IIHF as well) said it or some other person with "inside knowledge". I can see IOC/IIHF going with that demand.

 

[Sergei DRW]

Don't know which WC you watched. WC08 was won by Semin and Kovalchuk. WC09 was won by Bryzgalov. Vancouver was lost by pretty much everybody, but Nikulin, Korneev, and Kozlov were by the worst. Same for WC10.

You can have all the attitude and "heart" in the world, but if you are not used to being pressured when with the puck and making quick decisions, and your coach doesn't know how to match lines, you will have your ass handed to you.

Bryzgalov was good in net, but the goals scored were Saprykin and Radulov - KHL players.

Ovechkin and Semin weren't particularly effective in neither Olympics nor WC2010. In WC2010 the coach shouldn't have invited them at all and instead made room for KHL players who know how to backcheck and play defense.
Defensive game is totally alien to Ovechkin that's why he is always a liability on the ice when the other team has determined backcheckers and good passers.

Moreover, NHL players are used to play under pressure all the time, especially during Stanley Cup runs, what happened in the Olympics?
The argument could be that Bykov is not a good coach and couldn't find his own strategy but dissing KHL players is just stupid - many of them more than stood up for the challenge, and when you have such warriors as Radulov (Saprykin), now Mozyakin good things are going to happen