Grade our trade deadline moves

[ricky0034]

Based on real life and not some stupid prediction percentage that someone came up with, Detroit has a 6.25% chance of winning the cup. Just like every team who makes the playoffs.

saying every team in the Playoffs has an identical chance of winning it is pretty ridiculous too

here's a breakdown of the past 30 cup winners by seed:

1: 11
2: 9
3: 3
3: 3
4: 2
5: 1
6: 1
7: 0
8: 1

 

[SirKillalot]

A solid B+

I think we might have given up a little much for Cole. At the same time, there was a logjam for the youngsters. I would have liked a late pick back there.

Excellent deal for Zidlicky.


Downside is that both Zidlicky and Cole are old. So, they are no long term solutions. Maybe they can last a while, we will see.

Important thing. Our team got better. And I'm a fan of getting the best player in the trade.

 

[splot]

B- from me, I'm not a huge fan of the Cole trade. Already liked our forward group, not sure it was that needed since Helm doesn't seem to be out for that long. More depth is never a bad thing though, and I guess we should expect more injuries.

The main reason I'm not a fan of it is that I really like Janmark, probably the prospect I've watched the most the last two years and while the odds are that he'll never play in the NHL I think he could be a top 6 impact player.

 

[BinCookin]

True. And Detroit are pretty much a playoff lock to make the playoffs. Why did they waste their picks?

Dotter. I understand your points. I really do. I do not think our team is a contender yet when I look at the roster.... (on paper). But look at what we have done this year. We are as much of a contender as pittsburgh and chicago according to points (Dead tie). So apparently we ARE a contender as far as i am concerned.

I think we have been rebuilding since 2008 (while contending). I always hate the idea of giving away picks for veterans. I mean that is sort of the reason the leafs are so bad. They did it forever.

But let me ask you some simple questions along the lines of your theory.

Theory: Our team drafts well, we should never trade draft picks because that is the best way to build the team.

Do you think we can contend for the cup in the next 5 years without making any trades? Can we just keep adding young kids and become the best team in hockey? At what point do we run out of time? (D/Z/Kronwall) retiring is about to line up with our "rebuild" of Mantha/Larkin etc.

You think we have thrown a 2nd and 3rd away on nothing. What if Cole and Zidlicky help drive us to be the #1 or #2 seed in our conference. Are the odds we win better? (according to stats yes). I know these guys are "old" but so is D and Z and Kronwall to a degree. They are helping us win right now. I would argue with no clear cut favorite, these moves might help us to win a cup this year.

Did you think we had a chance of winning a cup without them?

Do you think we have a chance of winning a cup with them?

Following your arguement, Cole and Zidlicky are horrible players, worth no more than Andersson/Weiss and Kindl/Smith. And some of these guys if not all of them will play playoff games for us.

Do you think we are a better team than 1 week ago?
If the answer is yes. even only slightly. Then our chances of winning a cup improve. And that is all that really matters. If we have 7-8 "old vets" on our team, and we win a cup, I don't care what happens to all of them. And if we do not win a cup... so be it. But this line of "you cant win the shots you don't take" its interesting. Because that is the exact line most here would use to support losing a 2nd/3rd rounder for a shot at the cup. And this year there is no super favorite. If these additions work well, WE could be the favorite.

I think winning first in our division would go a LONG way to securing TB and MON kill each other first. It could happen. Odds are on your side of course. will we be 1/16 teams to win the cup? Probably not. But I could see it happening. And this TDL day has helped us. We are better.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I give it a solid B or a B+. I really like what Kenny did especially in terms of what we gave up and protection from the downside risk if it doesn't work out. Unlike others, I really like the Cole acquisition. I didn't think Kenny had the stones to acquire a big, physical, forward who can skate. We have been missing a real banger for a long time. I think his style of play is great in the playoffs and that he will help a lot even if he isn't producing.

Zidlicky isn't Bobby Orr, but he is a good, offensive, right-handed defensemen who can move the puck. He was my choice from day one and I am really glad that Kenny found a way to grab him at a super reasonable price.

In the grand scheme of things, we really didn't give up much. Janmark could turn out to be an NHLer, but he had the opportunity to come over to GR for this season and he didn't. I completely understand why Bachman returned to the SHL and I can't really blame him. We all knew, however, that this was going to happen as a consequence. I love following our prospects, I really do. We all, however, overstate the number of prospects that actually move on to have successful NHL careers. Picks are picks. They certainly have value, but they guarantee you nothing. If those are the eggs we need to break to make an omelet, so be it. I also like that they are split between two drafts.

If this all blows up and we flame out in the first round, we are only really out Janmark, a 2016 third and 15-20 spots in the 2015 draft. I consider that a very small price all things considered.

Lastly, as UFAs-to-be, these guys don't tie our hands moving forward.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Babcock confident newcomers fit in Red Wings lineup

 

[WingedWheel1987]

After having some time to think about it, i am going to go with a B-.

Thought the Cole trade was bleh.

Zidlicky trade improved the defense, so i really can't complain too much.

 

[Frk It]

I guess part of the reason my grade was so high is because my expectations were so low hahahaha

Just realized that....

 

[Bench]

I guess part of the reason my grade was so high is because my expectations were so low hahahaha

Just realized that....

And the only high profile defender even traded was Yandle.

 

[Frk It]

And the only high profile defender even traded was Yandle.

Yeah, true.

I mean IMO if good trades or good free agent signings was the "norm" would probably just give this a B and say whatever.

For me that hasn't been the case. Plus it's exciting to me to get an offensive defenseman, even if it's an old one.

 

[Dotter]

You posted a very long and thought-out post. I will do my best to humor you with my opinion. And it's only my opinion.

Dotter. I understand your points. I really do. I do not think our team is a contender yet when I look at the roster.... (on paper). But look at what we have done this year. We are as much of a contender as pittsburgh and chicago according to points (Dead tie). So apparently we ARE a contender as far as i am concerned.

It might sound like I'm beating a dead horse, but I think we were a contender before the trade. Health is the major concern. If Wings stay healthy, I think they have a legit shot.

I think we have been rebuilding since 2008 (while contending). I always hate the idea of giving away picks for veterans. I mean that is sort of the reason the leafs are so bad. They did it forever.

But let me ask you some simple questions along the lines of your theory.

Theory: Our team drafts well, we should never trade draft picks because that is the best way to build the team.

Do you think we can contend for the cup in the next 5 years without making any trades? Can we just keep adding young kids and become the best team in hockey? At what point do we run out of time? (D/Z/Kronwall) retiring is about to line up with our "rebuild" of Mantha/Larkin etc.

I think Holland should try to get the core pieces through draft, but if that falls through, then I think our scouting staff have a legit chance at drafting multiple more Tatar/Nyquist level guys through the course. Remember, Holland hired a few new scout from Columbus who have been doing a wonderful job. Tyler Wright and Andrew Dickson.

If Holland doesn't find those "home run" guys like Weber or Keith (which is possible, but not likely)... then package up those future Tatar/Nyquist guys up to get the Tyler Myers or Keith Yandle's of the world. And that's only if a FA guy like Mike Green (or Suter in the past) fall though.

You think we have thrown a 2nd and 3rd away on nothing. What if Cole and Zidlicky help drive us to be the #1 or #2 seed in our conference. Are the odds we win better? (according to stats yes). I know these guys are "old" but so is D and Z and Kronwall to a degree. They are helping us win right now. I would argue with no clear cut favorite, these moves might help us to win a cup this year.

That's not good enough. For me it's cup or bust. Will they help? possibly if they adapt and stay healthy. What are the chances of a 36 physical player and a 38 year old remain healthy? Don't like the odds.

Did you think we had a chance of winning a cup without them?

If you make the playoffs, you have a chance.

Do you think we have a chance of winning a cup with them?

Same as above. If you make the playoffs, you have a chance.

Following your arguement, Cole and Zidlicky are horrible players, worth no more than Andersson/Weiss and Kindl/Smith. And some of these guys if not all of them will play playoff games for us.

I don't think they are horrible. I think they are old. With age comes higher percentage of injuries. If they are out with injuries, they don't help us whatsoever. If they stay healthy, they'll be good additions but not enough. If they are like Weiss and think they need to play though nagging injuries, it will hurt the team.

But again, it's cup or bust for me.

Do you think we are a better team than 1 week ago?
If the answer is yes. even only slightly. Then our chances of winning a cup improve. And that is all that really matters. If we have 7-8 "old vets" on our team, and we win a cup, I don't care what happens to all of them. And if we do not win a cup... so be it. But this line of "you cant win the shots you don't take" its interesting. Because that is the exact line most here would use to support losing a 2nd/3rd rounder for a shot at the cup. And this year there is no super favorite. If these additions work well, WE could be the favorite.

I think winning first in our division would go a LONG way to securing TB and MON kill each other first. It could happen. Odds are on your side of course. will we be 1/16 teams to win the cup? Probably not. But I could see it happening. And this TDL day has helped us. We are better.

Wings already had a shot to win the cup without them. If they adapt and stay injury free, they'll improve the team. Will it increase their precense be enough to push them over the top? I don't think so.

I think this trade was more about getting the fans revved up and sell more tickets. Fans have been grumbling about a trade for awhile and I'm thinking this is more of a PR stunt than an actual push for the cup. While they will help, I doubt they'll increase our odds much.

At the end of the day, our scouts (who have been doing a wonderful job, btw) perhaps could have landed a few good players to either add to the core or to dangle for a young Myers or Bogo. But I think this trade is more profitable today than what Wings do in 2 to 4 years.

Just looking around the boards, seems fans are happy and Holland's approval rating significantly went up. This was a win for him. Not so much for the future of the team.

In my opinion, this move was made to "please" the fans and to get DRWs fans revved up and sell tickets (maybe even at a higher cost come playoffs). It's more of a PR stunt than anything. And fans are eating it up like gullible children.

 

[BinCookin]

In my opinion, this move was made to "please" the fans and to get DRWs fans revved up and sell tickets (maybe even at a higher cost come playoffs). It's more of a PR stunt than anything. And fans are eating it up like gullible children.

Fair enough. Good response

As for this tiny tid bit. Lets hope in several months that I can prove that they were useful in us winning the cup this year

That way "I win" this arguement that the trades were useful, and you "lose" the arguement, but hopefully will be consoled by our 5th stanley cup in this string of playoff appearances

If you win, we both lose, sorta

 

[Dotter]

Fair enough. Good response

As for this tiny tid bit. Lets hope in several months that I can prove that they were useful in us winning the cup this year

That way "I win" this arguement that the trades were useful, and you "lose" the arguement, but hopefully will be consoled by our 5th stanley cup in this string of playoff appearances

If you win, we both lose, sorta

I would love to eat some crow. I really would.

 

[stillwater]

In my opinion, this move was made to "please" the fans and to get DRWs fans revved up and sell tickets (maybe even at a higher cost come playoffs). It's more of a PR stunt than anything. And fans are eating it up like gullible children.

Sell tickets in a rink with what, 150+ consecutive sellouts? Ok.

Anyone who doesn't share your opinion is a gullible child. Ok.

Deadline trades as merely PR stunts. Ok.

 

[Shaman464]

I just have to disagree with the 'if you make the playoffs you have a chance' trope. While technically true, realistically it's not.

 

[stillwater]

Another PR stunt in winning in OT and Zidlicky getting the winner.

Look at that PR machine roll!

 

[SirloinUB]

Cole played a hell of a game too!

 

[Dotter]

Another PR stunt in winning in OT and Zidlicky getting the winner.

Look at that PR machine roll!

Now if he can just get a couple of those after the real season begins to leads the Wings to a Stanley cup victory, I'll gladly eat some crow.

 

[14ari13]

I'll put it to you like the great Wayne Getzky use to put it

"you miss 100% of the shots you don't take"

Webers and Keiths do get drafted in the 2nd round. Not often, but they do. And you won't ever draft one if you don't give yourself a chance to draft one.

The consolation prize is a Tatar/Nyquist which is far more likely to be had in the 2nd round over the Keiths and Webers of the world... but like good 'Ol Mr.Gretzky use to say...

You miss 100% to win the cup if you don't try/make playoffs.

 

[Classicnamesup]

I thought we paid a lot for Cole but I thought we got a great deal on Zids.

Liked a lot what I saw from Cole today, Zids scored the OTW.

Hard to complain yet

 

[haulinbass]

Wings already had a shot to win the cup without them. If they adapt and stay injury free, they'll improve the team. Will it increase their precense be enough to push them over the top? I don't think so.

I think this trade was more about getting the fans revved up and sell more tickets. Fans have been grumbling about a trade for awhile and I'm thinking this is more of a PR stunt than an actual push for the cup. While they will help, I doubt they'll increase our odds much.

At the end of the day, our scouts (who have been doing a wonderful job, btw) perhaps could have landed a few good players to either add to the core or to dangle for a young Myers or Bogo. But I think this trade is more profitable today than what Wings do in 2 to 4 years.

Just looking around the boards, seems fans are happy and Holland's approval rating significantly went up. This was a win for him. Not so much for the future of the team.

In my opinion, this move was made to "please" the fans and to get DRWs fans revved up and sell tickets (maybe even at a higher cost come playoffs). It's more of a PR stunt than anything. And fans are eating it up like gullible children.

Lol wow. The only thing you are right about is the Wings did have a chance of winning without the additions. I do not understand how you can possibly say this trade hardly increases our odds. The playoffs are about depth and being able to role four lines. Not only do these moves make us much better with a fully healthy roster, it will allow us to overcome injuries to mid tier players. If Sheahan goes down, Cole can take Weiss spot on the wing and Weiss can play center. That's huge and could be the difference between winning or losing. I don't understand how people can act like these players are no good because they are old. They are good right now and had good seasons and improve our team.
The Wings have a great team this year. We have been at the top of the standings all season long. We have possibly the best forward group in the entire NHL all the way down to our 4th line. The only thing this team desperately lacked was puck moving D and size in the top 9. Ironically that's exactly what Holland addressed. Must have been all for show to trick the fans into thinking... Wait what were you trying to say? He was trying to fool us into thinking the Wings are a serious team? Hm didn't know this team wasn't serious. I mean because teams that are in the top 10 all season long usually aren't serious about making a strong playoff run.

On top of that these trades did not cost us anything. Just two players that would have withered away lost for nothing and a minor blow to our draft picks. We don't need to trade for a long term player, we have players coming and need available roster spots next season. If we took on a big salary for say the next 3 years that would likely result in us having to cut some young guys loose once their pay day comes up. We can't afford to have any big salaries until Z and Datsyuk are retired or on decreased pay/roles. We have way to many guys that are easy decisions to lock up plus more potential on it's way. Let alone the price it would have cost. Is Yandle really that much better than Zids this year? No they are very similar. Two players who on good teams like Detroit or New York won't be depended on to face other teams top line. They are both go to power play guys who will see minutes mostly on the 3rd pair with some second pairing duties. Players who turn the 3rd pair D into a 2B unit. Allowing our team to role a 2A as a shut down pair and 2B as an offensive pair. Allowing Babcock the option to lean on the required unit depending on the circumstances of the game. That's a huge asset. These small moves made a very strong team complete. Yeah to bad we couldn't have 6 Webers and 12 Crosbys. In real life in real conditions this trade completes our team now. The idea is that for the long run the players in our system have the same impact down the stretch. The Wing's have as much chance as any to win the cup given there are no critical injuries.

 

[Dotter]

Yeah to bad we couldn't have 6 Webers and 12 Crosbys.

That's not how real life hockey works, dude.

 

[newfy]

That's not how real life hockey works, dude.

The chances that those picks are Cory Emmerton and ANdrej Nestrasil type players is higher than Keiths or Webers so quit being so attached to draft picks. The wings are poised for a deep run and youre basically the only person on here who doesnt like the moves. Give it a rest

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Cole B
Zidlicky B

 

[Dotter]

The chances that those picks are Cory Emmerton and ANdrej Nestrasil type players is higher than Keiths or Webers so quit being so attached to draft picks. The wings are poised for a deep run and youre basically the only person on here who doesnt like the moves. Give it a rest

Nestrasil was a 3rd rounder and Emmertion was drafted in the weakest draft of the decade; not much talent came past the 1st round that year. 2015 is suppose to be a deep draft.

We'll look back at this in 3 years to re-evaluate.