Grabovski vs. Bozak - A Comparison

[The Legend]

Question. Do the Leafs miss Grabovski or MacArthur? Are we a worse team without them? Are Ottawa and Washington better teams with them? Their addition or loss to any team is negligible. The Toronto Maple Leafs have been so devoid of talent the past decade that you think losing these types of players is actually something to talk about. It's not.

I don't think you can just look at a team's record to decide if a player is valuable (or would be valuable to another team).

Grabovski went 8 games without a point last year. I happen to think that is way too small a sample size to demote a player, but Carlyle has obviously shown that he will give far more chances to certain players than others. I think the Leafs are at their best when they use their speed and skill -Grabo and Clarke fit very well with that style.

Not to mention that using a compliance buyout on Grabovski instead of Liles at the time was laughable.

 

[BlueForever]

I don't think you can just look at a team's record to decide if a player is valuable (or would be valuable to another team).

Grabovski went 8 games without a point last year. I happen to think that is way too small a sample size to demote a player, but Carlyle has obviously shown that he will give far more chances to certain players than others. I think the Leafs are at their best when they use their speed and skill -Grabo and Clarke fit very well with that style.

Not to mention that using a compliance buyout on Grabovski instead of Liles at the time was laughable.

Not laughable anymore. We turned Liles into Gleason and as far as I am concerned its no coincidence that since Gleason has been in our lineup we have been playing better in front of our goalies and winning lots of games.

As far as Grabovksi over Bozak. You take Bozak all day long. Better player offensively and defensively. Keeps our best player Kessel being our best player. Bozak has elevated his game. I take Bozak. Good work Nonis.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Not laughable anymore. We turned Liles into Gleason and as far as I am concerned its no coincidence that since Gleason has been in our lineup we have been playing better in front of our goalies and winning lots of games.

As far as Grabovksi over Bozak. You take Bozak all day long. Better player offensively and defensively. Keeps our best player Kessel being our best player. Bozak has elevated his game. I take Bozak. Good work Nonis.

Agreed! And after Grabs got the big contract, he floated, and then sulked about being "demoted"
We needed to get bigger up front.

 

[BlueForever]

Agreed! And after Grabs got the big contract, he floated, and then sulked about being "demoted"
We needed to get bigger up front.

Bozak isnt exactly bigger but is liked by his team, and is a team player first. Grabo never was hence the reason we needed to get rid of him.

To be honest McCarthur too was too into himself. Good player and all, we do miss him more the Grabo. But hes all about the $$$$$. Hence the good season this year in Ottawa. He will float again once he gets his payday.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Sorry didn't mean Bozak was bigger, just that by moving guys like Mac and Grabs we were able to add Clarkson/Bolland. Bigger/tougher/experience/leadership

 

[indigobuffalo]

Guys.... they don't even play the same style of game.

Bozak is way more defensive and a better puck possession type of player. Wins FO (most of the the time) and creates turnovers.
Bozak also plays with the best wingers in the game.

Grabo is a great skating, puck moving guy but he wasn't very good at FOs and definitely not as defensive. He also doesn't really use his line-mates as often as he should

Bozak isn't as offensively gifted as grabo but he brings some defensive abilities that complement kessel and JVR. Grabo, while a good player, doesn't fit the teams needs.

It's saying ROR vs Kadri.

Are we saying that Kessel + JVR >>> Ovechkin + Fehr ???

I'd certainly agree that JVR > Fehr, but Kessel isn't as dynamic as OV.

IF, somehow, Kadri and Kessel fused together then, I could see it, but Kessel doesn't fire up the team the way Ovechkin does.

Personally I'd rank the lines as about equal.

 

[The Legend]

Agreed! And after Grabs got the big contract, he floated, and then sulked about being "demoted"
We needed to get bigger up front.

We needed to get faster - not bigger. Could not disagree more.

 

[Hero]

Now if only Bozak could get back to winning faceoffs.

 

[Delicious Dangles*]

dude, if we're going to have an intelligent discussion here, you need to get your arguments right. you can't be picking pieces here and there to change them to your own agenda.

otherwise, it's a waste of time just like those fan 590 crazy fans that have no logic and say the leafs suck because they suck.

First, you said TEAM. We are a better team than ottawa and Washington because we have more points and currently sit in a playoff position. That is how to measure team success. Next would be getting to the stanley cup finals which ottawa and washington has yet to also do.

To base a team's success on one player is silly unless 1 player can play goalie, defense, and offense at the same time.

Um, did you read what I wrote? I'm not sure you're understanding. I'm not changing anything, picking pieces, or claiming that a single player is the reason for any kind of team success or lack-thereof. In fact, I am arguing the opposite; that Grabovski and Macarthur are not bad players because they are on worse teams, and those teams aren't worse because of those players.

Bolland and Clarkson brings in a different aspect of the club like leadership and experience from playoff games. Something the leafs do lack.

bolland + clarkson = 111 games of playoff experience
MacArthur + Grabo = 11 games of playoff experience.

that's 10x the number of playoff games.

once again, i'm not saying that grabo and macarthur individually SUCK, but the leafs got more playoff experience now and if you compare bolland/clarkson to grabo/macarthur, their historic production numbers aren't vastly different.

Actually, historically, Grabovski and Macarthur both produce more than Bolland and Clarkson, assuming similar roles.

Yes, we have more playoff experience in our line-up now. I'm not sure that value makes up for the assets, production, and cap situation we lost.

You can't be basing your arguments on "this years" production because at the time, no one knows how Grabo/MacArthur would produce. That's like saying I should have invested in apple stocks 10 years ago because I knew they would be the most successful company in the past decade. If everyone had 20/20 hindsight, we would all be billionaires and bought Tesla stocks 1 year ago.

If we can use Bozak's current production, that is WAY off his expected pace, then we can certainly use Grabovski's and Macarthur's production from this year, which was WAY more predictable, since they've done it before.

Also, Bolland working out is entirely hindsight (and premature). He was horrible last year (worse than both Grabovski and Macarthur), and was at times relegated to 4th line duty, even though Chicago was desperate for a center.

 

[Cor]

Are we saying that Kessel + JVR >>> Ovechkin + Fehr ???

I'd certainly agree that JVR > Fehr, but Kessel isn't as dynamic as OV.

IF, somehow, Kadri and Kessel fused together then, I could see it, but Kessel doesn't fire up the team the way Ovechkin does.

Personally I'd rank the lines as about equal.

Kessel + JVR >> Ovechkin + Fehr

Fehr is terrible, absolutely terrible. Wouldn't want him on our fourth line

 

[Delicious Dangles*]

Not laughable anymore. We turned Liles into Gleason and as far as I am concerned its no coincidence that since Gleason has been in our lineup we have been playing better in front of our goalies and winning lots of games.

While Gleason has been good, give or take a few games, it is a very small sample that coincides with Kessel being the 2nd best player of the month.

He is also worth nowhere near 4 million, even at his best.

Liles was also negative value, so it would have been a piece of cake to still get Gleason for nothing, or even assets coming our way.

 

[Delicious Dangles*]

Bozak isnt exactly bigger but is liked by his team, and is a team player first. Grabo never was hence the reason we needed to get rid of him.

Grabovski never once sulked during the season, and there is no indication or evidence that he is not a team player.

Revisionist history.

 

[Delicious Dangles*]

Are we saying that Kessel + JVR >>> Ovechkin + Fehr ???

I'd certainly agree that JVR > Fehr, but Kessel isn't as dynamic as OV.

IF, somehow, Kadri and Kessel fused together then, I could see it, but Kessel doesn't fire up the team the way Ovechkin does.

Personally I'd rank the lines as about equal.

Grabovski does not play with Ovechkin.

 

[mikebel111*]

Yup bozak is soo much better than grabo.

Great job nonis!

 

[BlueForever]

Grabovski never once sulked during the season, and there is no indication or evidence that he is not a team player.

Revisionist history.

Grabovski sulked all kinds and it showed in his play. Carlyle didnt like his effort and sent him to 3rd line against less talented players. Instead of stepping up his game to get back minutes and PP time. He floated and did nothing until playoffs came where he was our best player as some will argue. If Grabo showed that intensity the entire season last season he would still be here and Kadri would have already been gone. Bozak was being brought back regardless, he's Kessels Oates as Oates was to Hull.

 

[Delicious Dangles*]

Grabovski sulked all kinds and it showed in his play. Carlyle didnt like his effort and sent him to 3rd line against less talented players. Instead of stepping up his game to get back minutes and PP time. He floated and did nothing until playoffs came where he was our best player as some will argue. If Grabo showed that intensity the entire season last season he would still be here and Kadri would have already been gone. Bozak was being brought back regardless, he's Kessels Oates as Oates was to Hull.

Grabovski did not sulk once. He was always optimistic and all-in for the team every time he spoke to media. The ONLY time he spoke out was after getting bought out the day before his wedding, and what he said wasn't even that bad. It was just laying it all out there publicly.

It was not his effort that got him demoted. His effort should never be in question. It was his production, which is something that was already proven to be overblown and caused by the coach in the first place.

The entire season, he was the shutdown line. He was NOT matched up against less talented players. He was tasked with shutting down the opposition's superstars.

Kadri would never have been traded, regardless. Grabovski's money and spot went to one of Bolland, Bozak, or Clarkson.

Now that you've got pretty much everything you said wrong, comparing Bozak to Oates is just .

 

[Joey Hoser]

Why do people still think Grabovski had a good playoffs?

He had 2 points and was -11.

He gave an admirable effort and always got up... while he got the **** beat of him and was entirely ineffective.

That should have endeared him to you as a person, but not as a hockey player.

 

[The Legend]

Carlyle didnt like his effort and sent him to 3rd line against less talented players..

What?

 

[BlueForever]

Bozak over Grabovski all day long. End of story. Forget the nonsense. Grabovski didnt live up to the hype and we got better bang for our buck with Bolland and Bozak.

Stop thrashing Bozak he's the best all round player the Leafs have. Its not about the goals and the assists. He works every shift, and makes the players around him happy and better. Doesnt need the spotlight.

Give him a chance, he will get better every year with points and the rest of his play is outstanding. Plays defence, skates, has offensive ability, kills penalties, plays PP and takes key faceoffs. What else do you want from the guy. Hes worth every penny and better then what the Leafs could have gotten for so much more money. Weiss anyone????

Give credit to the guy.

 

[Duke Silver]

Why do people still think Grabovski had a good playoffs?

He had 2 points and was -11.

He gave an admirable effort and always got up... while he got the **** beat of him and was entirely ineffective.

That should have endeared him to you as a person, but not as a hockey player.

Grabovski was one of the Leafs' top-3 forwards in the Bruins series (JVR, Kessel).

Gave it his everything every game. His +/- in that series has also been thoroughly discredited as misleading, as well.

There's more to the game than points and useless stats like +/-. You should know better, Joey.

 

[StuckOutHere]

To me it was always about Grabovski versus Kadri. Don't get the Bozak versus Grabo argument because as much as people wanted to see it, Grabo was never going to play first line minutes in Toronto. Even in his slumps the Leafs would choose Kadri over Grabo due to youth, perceived upside, and cost certainty. Grabo was a good player, will continue to be a good player, but will never be an elite player. Kadri could become that and for far less money and term as the current situation stands. I miss Grabo, but I've moved on.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Grabovski was one of the Leafs' top-3 forwards in the Bruins series (JVR, Kessel).

Gave it his everything every game. His +/- in that series has also been throughly discredited as misleading, as well.

There's more to the game than points and useless stats like +/-. You should know better, Joey.

He tried, got hit, and got up, but was the extent of his contribution.

Saying he was one of our 3 top fwds in the Boston series certifibly discredits you.

Truth is, He was dismantled by Krejci, if one wants to pinpoint the single most difference of the series.

It was how 1 comparable caphit at 5.25 conclusively outplayed a 5.5 one.

And that was the biggest reason why we lost the series. A half decent performance if we had a better center(ie. Bolland) puts us in the 2nd rd.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Interesting that people have brought up Clarke MacArthur. Had that one good year with Grabs, then two ok years. Now you separate him from Grabs, give him Turris, and he's got his game back.....

So, MacArthur is about to have a career year, after two years of average performance with Grabs... now that he isn't playing with him.

So Kessel is having a career year pace, with Bozak.

Has Grabs the great has a huge impact on Brouwer and Fehr, elevating them to greatness.....

Clarke had his career year on a 1 year contract, he only got his "game back" because he has something to prove. He'll go back to being the same as he was the past 2 season with the Leafs. Just a solid player who isn't playing above his actual skill set.

Kadri played better than Grabo and earned his spot while Grabo did nothing to contribute apart from getting hit every night. People complain that he wasn't given ice time or whatever but he was, its just that Kadri won those minutes away from him. You don't just give a player ice time when he isn't performing (for the most part anyways) but some people don't want to comprehend this. This is more of a Grabo vs Kadri rather than Bozak. Bozak's safe as the #1C unless the Leafs acquire a Stamkos or Crosby, which will probably never happen

 

[JGuardz]

Grabovski did such a poor job playing his role in that playoff series that Carlyle had to pull him off of the krecji line and put phaneuf up against him. Unsurprisingly, bergeron scores the game winner in game 7 because of a defensive miscue from Gardiner and Franson. Having Bozak allows phaneuf to go up against bergeron and we can go with Bozak against krecji....we likely win game 7 just off that small adjustment.

 

[Duke Silver]

He tried, got hit, and got up, but was the extent of his contribution.

Saying he was one of our 3 top fwds in the Boston series certifibly discredits you.

Truth is, He was dismantled by Krejci, if one wants to pinpoint the single most difference of the series.

It was how 1 comparable caphit at 5.25 conclusively outplayed a 5.5 one.

And that was the biggest reason why we lost the series. A half decent performance if we had a better center(ie. Bolland) puts us in the 2nd rd.

How absolutely laughable it is that the guy with the most blinding hatred for Grabovski on these forums makes a comment about my credibility on this subject. Give me a break.

Still haven't figured out that difference between RFA and UFA contracts, eh Interactif?