Post-Game Talk: Government Shutdown: Pens-2, Senators-1

[BumFortyOne]

Kris Letang 'Stats'

Record with: 22-12
Record without: 17-5

GF/g with Letang: 3.1
GA/g with Letang: 2.4

GF/g without Letang: 3.3
GA/g without Letang: 2.3

someone is welcome to check my work.

I knew we were better without him, but those numbers are quite telling. Maybe someone should seriously send these stats to Shero or the pens.

Um, what? Given the sample size those stats are taken from, that very slight difference is likely within normal variation.

I remember as recently as last season and before that seeing win-loss records with and without Letang on the ice and the record was decidedly better with him than without. Now, Letang has not played up to what we should expect of him this season and I would still consider dealing Letang if the right deal, but the guy has been key to this team's success the past few seasons. I do think the team could survive without him moving forward with Niskanen's emergence, assuming Niskanen and Martin were both extended.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Um, what? Given the sample size those stats are taken from, that very slight difference is likely within normal variation.

I remember as recently as last season and before that seeing win-loss records with and without Letang on the ice and the record was decidedly better with him than without. Now, Letang has not played up to what we should expect of him this season and I would still consider dealing Letang if the right deal, but the guy has been key to this team's success the past few seasons. I do think the team could survive without him moving forward with Niskanen's emergence, assuming Niskanen and Martin were both extended.

I agree.

a) I always am suspect of team stats used to 'prove' how good or bad a player is doing. They are team stats for a reason.

b) You do not need statistics to know that Letang is having an off year. For whatever reason. Injury, regression, stupidity, take your pick. A simple eye test would have told you that.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Cycle killer
qu'est-ce que c'est
Fre fre fre free fre fre fre fre free free candy

Better, trade, trade, trade, trade, trade, trade, trade, trade him away!!!

 

[Michael8771*]

- The clutch and grab era is back. Crosby may be the only player to reach 100 points.

I was thinking that myself.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

What happened to Pyatt, noticed they were double shifting a lot and saw he had only 0:22 seconds of ice time when i got home?

 

[Captain Hook]

What happened to Pyatt, noticed they were double shifting a lot and saw he had only 0:22 seconds of ice time when i got home?

It looked like he hurt his leg throwing a hit along the boards early in the game. He immediately went to the locker room, looked to be heavily limping and didn't return to the game.

 

[ColePens]

I agree.

a) I always am suspect of team stats used to 'prove' how good or bad a player is doing. They are team stats for a reason.

b) You do not need statistics to know that Letang is having an off year. For whatever reason. Injury, regression, stupidity, take your pick. A simple eye test would have told you that.

Yeah isn't there some ridiculous stat that we have an insanely good record w/ Engo in the line up instead of when he's out? I'd love to see some people pick that stat and try to make an argument. Wingerz up above said, by just looking at the Letang stat, we are better w/o Letang. Then I say we pay Engo 8 years/8 mil for how good we are when he's in the line up.

Eye test >>>>>> stats

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

It looked like he hurt his leg throwing a hit along the boards early in the game. He immediately went to the locker room, looked to be heavily limping and didn't return to the game.

oh, ok that doesnt sound too good.

 

[IcedCapp]

Um, what? Given the sample size those stats are taken from, that very slight difference is likely within normal variation.

I remember as recently as last season and before that seeing win-loss records with and without Letang on the ice and the record was decidedly better with him than without. Now, Letang has not played up to what we should expect of him this season and I would still consider dealing Letang if the right deal, but the guy has been key to this team's success the past few seasons. I do think the team could survive without him moving forward with Niskanen's emergence, assuming Niskanen and Martin were both extended.

Just to be clear, I only posted these stats because someone asked for them. Posting them did not mean I felt they were statistically significant. In fact, in the other thread I said they weren't.

 

[IcedCapp]

Yeah isn't there some ridiculous stat that we have an insanely good record w/ Engo in the line up instead of when he's out? I'd love to see some people pick that stat and try to make an argument. Wingerz up above said, by just looking at the Letang stat, we are better w/o Letang. Then I say we pay Engo 8 years/8 mil for how good we are when he's in the line up.

Eye test >>>>>> stats

I disagree. I think both are equally important. I don't think stat watchers get the whole story, but also feel that "eye testers" are prone to human error: not seeing the entire play, not knowing assignments, and, most important, confirmation bias.

Combining the two is the best way to get a complete picture.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Um, what? Given the sample size those stats are taken from, that very slight difference is likely within normal variation.

It's a 43% increase in goal differential over 22 games (more than 1/4 of an NHL regular season).

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Still watching highlights of that glove save by Flower

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

It's a 43% increase in goal differential over 22 games (more than 1/4 of an NHL regular season).

Which is a extremely wild result in a very small sample. It screams statistical noise. But your gonna see what you want to see anyway so...

 

[Shrimper]

Last time we lost a regular season game in OT at home was November 23rd 2011.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I thought this was a great game for the pens to play in, i didn't really care if they won or lost.

The way the Sens played against the pens and Sid and Geno is going to be the way teams like Boston and Detroit play against them in the playoffs.


Shero needs to improve the pens roster and the pens are going to need to find ways to win these 2-1 games without Sid and Geno scoring in the playoffs.


One thing i love hearing the pens players talk about is being patient, that was a problem for the pens last year, you can really tell that DB drilled into the pens heads that they need to be patient to win in the playoffs.

 

[Captain Hook]

I thought this was a great game for the pens to play in, i didn't really care if they won or lost.

The way the Sens played against the pens and Sid and Geno is going to be the way teams like Boston and Detroit play against them in the playoffs.


Shero needs to improve the pens roster and the pens are going to need to find ways to win these 2-1 games without Sid and Geno scoring in the playoffs.


One thing i love hearing the pens players talk about is being patient, that was a problem for the pens last year, you can really tell that DB drilled into the pens heads that they need to be patient to win in the playoffs.

Yeah, I thought it was an awesome game last night. Felt like a playoff game.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I disagree. I think both are equally important. I don't think stat watchers get the whole story, but also feel that "eye testers" are prone to human error: not seeing the entire play, not knowing assignments, and, most important, confirmation bias.

Combining the two is the best way to get a complete picture.

This seems to be one of the hardest points to drive home for a lot of people.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

This seems to be one of the hardest points to drive home for a lot of people.

I do not mind using stats.

I do it all the time, it is one of my things.

But you have to take them with a grain of salt. Some far more than others.

Team stats used for judging individual players is one of those that is more prone to error. It is one reason that goalies are so hard to judge just by stats. So when a goalie moves from one team to another he can suck on one team then be a Vezina Trophy candidate on another. Because goalie stats ARE team stats to one degree or another. Even save percentage, as what kind of shot a goalie for Edmonton faces is far different than the type of shot a King's goalie faces.

Just take all stats with a grain of salt, especially ones like these.

 

[Shrimper]

Ebbett re-assigned to WBS.

 

[dr robbie]

I forgot to mention that our PK has been amazing as of late. Not sure where we rank, but with our dangerous PP and shutdown PK, I would have to assume that we run the best special teams in the NHL right now (someone could correct me if I'm wrong). Say what you want about Glass and Adams, but if the PK is their job, they are doing a pretty good job of it (even before Glass decided to be a good NHL player a few games back).

 

[Cardboard Orpik]

I forgot to mention that our PK has been amazing as of late. Not sure where we rank, but with our dangerous PP and shutdown PK, I would have to assume that we run the best special teams in the NHL right now (someone could correct me if I'm wrong). Say what you want about Glass and Adams, but if the PK is their job, they are doing a pretty good job of it (even before Glass decided to be a good NHL player a few games back).

We have the #1 PK and #1 PP in the league, and have for some time. Special teams have been exceptional this year.

 

[Shady Machine]

Ebbett re-assigned to WBS.

YAAYYY!!!

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I forgot to mention that our PK has been amazing as of late. Not sure where we rank, but with our dangerous PP and shutdown PK, I would have to assume that we run the best special teams in the NHL right now (someone could correct me if I'm wrong). Say what you want about Glass and Adams, but if the PK is their job, they are doing a pretty good job of it (even before Glass decided to be a good NHL player a few games back).

Number 1.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.ht...rt=penaltyKillPercentage&viewName=penaltyKill

We only allow a little over 12% of PP opportunites to be converted.

 

[radapex]

Number 1.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.ht...rt=penaltyKillPercentage&viewName=penaltyKill

We only allow a little over 12% of PP opportunites to be converted.

I don't know how anybody could miss that. The "#1 on the PP, #1 on the PK" topic has been brought up a dozen times a game for the past week!

How about this? http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....t=powerPlaySavePctg&viewName=specialTeamSaves

Fleury continues to lead the way with an astonishing .929 PK SV%. The 7 players ahead of him had a combined 57 games played this season, Fleury has 45 himself. In comparison, Zatkoff is sitting at a more normal .889 PK SV%.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Ebbett re-assigned to WBS.

Odd timing with Pyatt going down.