Golden Knights (K)News - Volume II

[LadyStanley]

Awesome perspective. Paywall

 

[LadyStanley]

Foley's Group Looked At 20 Potential MLS Stadium Sites, Talked With Raiders About Using Allegiant Stadium In Quest For MLS Team - LVSportsBiz

A look at Foley's MLS plan

 

[LadyStanley]

https://www.reviewjournal.com/sport...source=onesignal&utm_medium=push_notification

A look at the "business" of hockey and how VGK has competitive/cutthroat and sometimes not as "nice" as some might like WRT player movement.

 

[LadyStanley]

Darn

 

[LadyStanley]

Seaaon opener

 

[Vegas07]

https://www.reviewjournal.com/sport...source=onesignal&utm_medium=push_notification

A look at the "business" of hockey and how VGK has competitive/cutthroat and sometimes not as "nice" as some might like WRT player movement.

That article makes the front office look bad. And personally I think they come across as arrogant. It feels like they saying “Our customers are dumb. They will get over the way we treated Fleury and will learn to see things our way.”

They mention it being a business, but I don’t think insulting your customers by trading away the most popular player after you said he would retire as a Knight is a good way to do business.

I know teams should tend to pick the much younger, cheaper player (duh) but this situation is more complicated than that.

 

[Vegan Knight]

That article makes the front office look bad. And personally I think they come across as arrogant. It feels like they saying “Our customers are dumb. They will get over the way we treated Fleury and will learn to see things our way.”

They mention it being a business, but I don’t think insulting your customers by trading away the most popular player after you said he would retire as a Knight is a good way to do business.

I know teams should tend to pick the much younger, cheaper player (duh) but this situation is more complicated than that.

Fleury behaved poorly at times himself these past two seasons. This isn't on management alone. The relationship deteriorated and that was from both ends, people treat Fleury as a saint, and do need to get over that.

 

[IceNeophyte]

That article makes the front office look bad. And personally I think they come across as arrogant. It feels like they saying “Our customers are dumb. They will get over the way we treated Fleury and will learn to see things our way.”

They mention it being a business, but I don’t think insulting your customers by trading away the most popular player after you said he would retire as a Knight is a good way to do business.

I know teams should tend to pick the much younger, cheaper player (duh) but this situation is more complicated than that.

In my experience, arrogance permeates the organization, from McPhee down to the season ticket reps. Lot of talk about looking for character in players when I don't see a lot of character outside the roster.

 

[Vegas07]

Fleury behaved poorly at times himself these past two seasons. This isn't on management alone. The relationship deteriorated and that was from both ends, people treat Fleury as a saint, and do need to get over that.

For me it isn’t just about that. Even when management tried to be nicer to him I think they screwed up.

Why did they give him that extension after the trip to the Finals? You don’t do that with an older goalie coming off a career year if you can wait. Even a much younger Lehner was signed by us for $5 million a year.

So management gives him that really generous extension, then with one year left on the deal we trade him because he was too expensive to keep. Huh?

 

[Vegas07]

After watching 10 minutes of Fleury playing for Chicago, management definitely treated him MUCH worse (than he treated them) by shipping him off to that team. WOW Chicago looks horrible. They are on pace to give up over 30 shots in the first period.

 

[IceNeophyte]

For me it isn’t just about that. Even when management tried to be nicer to him I think they screwed up.

Why did they give him that extension after the trip to the Finals? You don’t do that with an older goalie coming off a career year if you can wait. Even a much younger Lehner was signed by us for $5 million a year.

So management gives him that really generous extension, then with one year left on the deal we trade him because he was too expensive to keep. Huh?

He had a rough season after his father died. The McGMs went full on panic and canned Turk and traded for Lehner. Flower looked like he had gotten his head straight by the time of the bubble playoffs, but it was too late, DeBore completely alienated him and then the team signed Lehner to 5X5. Despite that, he gave Vegas a Vezina performance the following year. Which was great for VGK because it made him moveable. I don't fault VGK for trading Fleury, that playbook was written the moment they signed Lehner. No one was going to take Lehner at 4X5.

 

[willy702]

After watching 10 minutes of Fleury playing for Chicago, management definitely treated him MUCH worse (than he treated them) by shipping him off to that team. WOW Chicago looks horrible. They are on pace to give up over 30 shots in the first period.

I don't get this line of thinking. He signed a contract to pay him better than any relevant comparable goalie at his age, it was a clear overpay as a thank you for the first season's performance. That's not taking care of him? If he loves Vegas so much he can always come back when he's done, but this is a business he's in. No one is owed the net or a spot on the team and for as much as you think he gave to the team with last season, what good what that have done the team in a year or two when he retired?

 

[Vegan Knight]

I don't get this line of thinking. He signed a contract to pay him better than any relevant comparable goalie at his age, it was a clear overpay as a thank you for the first season's performance. That's not taking care of him? If he loves Vegas so much he can always come back when he's done, but this is a business he's in. No one is owed the net or a spot on the team and for as much as you think he gave to the team with last season, what good what that have done the team in a year or two when he retired?

He also could have taken a more reasonable contract for the time and gotten a full NMC if staying in Vegas guaranteed was of that much absolute vital importance to him.

 

[Vegas07]

He also could have taken a more reasonable contract for the time and gotten a full NMC if staying in Vegas guaranteed was of that much absolute vital importance to him.

I think it’s implied that they aren’t trading him when they give him a special deal like that extension. It’s probably one reason some fans are surprised he is gone. The team gave him an extension, told him he would retire in Vegas, promoted him as the face of the franchise and then shipped him out later anyway.

But you’re right, it’s interesting he didn’t push for a full NMC. Perhaps the team could have thrown that into a deal a year later, and that might have helped sign him to a cheaper deal. Fleury loving Vegas so much increases the chances that you can sign him to a cheaper deal too.

 

[Vegas07]

I don't get this line of thinking. He signed a contract to pay him better than any relevant comparable goalie at his age, it was a clear overpay as a thank you for the first season's performance. That's not taking care of him?

I don’t understand this though. We didn’t do that with Karlsson. And Karlsson is still here. If we significantly overpaid Karlsson (or anybody else) as a thank you for a great season, that would definitely be a problem for the team. Does Karlsson feel the team treated him badly?

We certainly didn’t try nearly as hard to take care of other players either, like David Perron, who said the team never offered him anything after the trade deadline.

It’s too much trouble to overpay players like that when you have a salary cap to worry about. That’s how we got into a position where we were thinking “Oh crap, we are spending way too much on our goalies.”

I also think it’s inconsistent. I read about the front office being ruthless and doing what it takes to win, but that’s inconsistent with the idea of overpaying an older player with an extension like that.

If he loves Vegas so much he can always come back when he's done, but this is a business he's in. No one is owed the net or a spot on the team and for as much as you think he gave to the team with last season, what good what that have done the team in a year or two when he retired?

There would be a lot less angry customers (or ex customers). I still hear complaints from fans about the team trading Fleury. I understand why the trade was made but one thing about it being a business is a bunch of fans feel the team gave them (and Fleury) the middle finger when they shipped him out, and some even gave up their season tickets. And I can’t imagine that being a good thing for a business.

And it seems to me the attitude of “Oh well, who cares” or “They will get over it” is basically spitting on their customers.

 

[Vegan Knight]

I don’t understand this though. We didn’t do that with Karlsson. And Karlsson is still here. If we significantly overpaid Karlsson (or anybody else) as a thank you for a great season, that would definitely be a problem for the team. Does Karlsson feel the team treated him badly?

We certainly didn’t try nearly as hard to take care of other players either, like David Perron, who said the team never offered him anything after the trade deadline.

It’s too much trouble to overpay players like that when you have a salary cap to worry about. That’s how we got into a position where we were thinking “Oh crap, we are spending way too much on our goalies.”

I also think it’s inconsistent. I read about the front office being ruthless and doing what it takes to win, but that’s inconsistent with the idea of overpaying an older player with an extension like that.



There would be a lot less angry customers (or ex customers). I still hear complaints from fans about the team trading Fleury. I understand why the trade was made but one thing about it being a business is a bunch of fans feel the team gave them (and Fleury) the middle finger when they shipped him out, and some even gave up their season tickets. And I can’t imagine that being a good thing for a business.

And it seems to me the attitude of “Oh well, who cares” or “They will get over it” is basically spitting on their customers.

I think if there was going to be a big impact, it would be now when it's fresh. As time passes more and more people will move on, and the overreaction probably caused others to move on quicker and turn the page to get away from the drama.

We had more preseason home games than anyone, I believe, and they were selling like over 17k tickets at prices that were ridiculously high for preseason. And a lot of people actually showed up, compared to when we went to San Jose where it was very empty.

And the home opener had over 18.4k at very expensive prices. There's waiting lists for season tickets. If people give up theirs someone else is there to snap them up.

I have a feeling the people emotionally giving up their spot would probably feel regret about it before the team does.

 

[willy702]

I don’t understand this though. We didn’t do that with Karlsson. And Karlsson is still here. If we significantly overpaid Karlsson (or anybody else) as a thank you for a great season, that would definitely be a problem for the team. Does Karlsson feel the team treated him badly?

We certainly didn’t try nearly as hard to take care of other players either, like David Perron, who said the team never offered him anything after the trade deadline.

It’s too much trouble to overpay players like that when you have a salary cap to worry about. That’s how we got into a position where we were thinking “Oh crap, we are spending way too much on our goalies.”

I also think it’s inconsistent. I read about the front office being ruthless and doing what it takes to win, but that’s inconsistent with the idea of overpaying an older player with an extension like that.



There would be a lot less angry customers (or ex customers). I still hear complaints from fans about the team trading Fleury. I understand why the trade was made but one thing about it being a business is a bunch of fans feel the team gave them (and Fleury) the middle finger when they shipped him out, and some even gave up their season tickets. And I can’t imagine that being a good thing for a business.

And it seems to me the attitude of “Oh well, who cares” or “They will get over it” is basically spitting on their customers.

If someone feels this way pro sports is probably not for them so it's good they gave up their tickets, if that really happened. I highly doubt it did for more than a handful of people.

 

[Vegas07]

If someone feels this way pro sports is probably not for them so it's good they gave up their tickets, if that really happened. I highly doubt it did for more than a handful of people.

Mayhe. Fwiw though we have some posters here that seem to really dislike Lehner, even going as far as calling him awful. From reading posts here one might think Lehner is one of the worst goalies in the league. And we only have a small number of posters.

And I hear this opinion from fans outside of this forum too.

The article in the Review Journal mentioned moderators on Facebook having to act as counselors because people were so upset. Some of those people are being irrational though.

 

[Vegas07]

I think if there was going to be a big impact, it would be now when it's fresh. As time passes more and more people will move on, and the overreaction probably caused others to move on quicker and turn the page to get away from the drama.

We had more preseason home games than anyone, I believe, and they were selling like over 17k tickets at prices that were ridiculously high for preseason. And a lot of people actually showed up, compared to when we went to San Jose where it was very empty.

And the home opener had over 18.4k at very expensive prices. There's waiting lists for season tickets. If people give up theirs someone else is there to snap them up.

I have a feeling the people emotionally giving up their spot would probably feel regret about it before the team does.

The front office probably does think that way. It’s the sort of attitude that leads to resort fees and parking fees. “Our customers will get upset and complain, but they will keep coming and they will get over it.” But you make some good points, especially with the waiting lists for season tickets.

At the end of the preseason I did see tickets that were as cheap as $10, but at the beginning they were surprisingly expensive. The article from the Review Journal I read didn’t factor in mask mandates and the virus which weren’t around two years ago to keep fans away.

I wonder what the impact would be if the team has a bad year and misses the playoffs (but I don’t really know, just curious and it may take much longer before fans lose interest). The front office obviously figured Lehner and Brossoit were good enough to win a lot of games, and expected another strong season. But with the team looking unmotivated and with injuries already piling up, I’m not confident now. Even if they pick it up later and get in as a low seed, that’s a huge disappointment.

 

[willy702]

The front office probably does think that way. It’s the sort of attitude that leads to resort fees and parking fees. “Our customers will get upset and complain, but they will keep coming and they will get over it.” But you make some good points, especially with the waiting lists for season tickets.

At the end of the preseason I did see tickets that were as cheap as $10, but at the beginning they were surprisingly expensive. The article from the Review Journal I read didn’t factor in mask mandates and the virus which weren’t around two years ago to keep fans away.

I wonder what the impact would be if the team has a bad year and misses the playoffs (but I don’t really know, just curious and it may take much longer before fans lose interest). The front office obviously figured Lehner and Brossoit were good enough to win a lot of games, and expected another strong season. But with the team looking unmotivated and with injuries already piling up, I’m not confident now. Even if they pick it up later and get in as a low seed, that’s a huge disappointment.

Just getting into the playoffs is all you need. Chasing extra points to get a higher seed too often results in disappointment. In year 2 I think the team was a bit too cavalier in their lack of urgency to get to the 2 seed, but in the end it shouldn't have mattered. Good to get the injury bug out of the way early, its fatal if you get this many injuries in the playoffs.

 

[LadyStanley]

As a fan of a team that's been around a few decades, it can happen that the play falls off and the "fair weather" fans will find other things to do with their time/disposable income.

When and if the team "gets back to winning form" some may return, or new folks take their place.

 

[Vegas07]

^That reminds me. UNLV basketball has had its fan support drop off significantly in the last decade. Maybe the Knights have something to do with it too. It took a lot of disappointment to react that point though. UNLV used to get a lot more fan support in the early 90’s.

UNLV football fan support is even worse for obvious reasons but that’s an extreme example.

UNLV sports isn’t going to attract nearly as much tourism as the pro sports teams. Knights and Raider games do attract a lot of opposing fans.

 

[IceNeophyte]

^That reminds me. UNLV basketball has had its fan support drop off significantly in the last decade. Maybe the Knights have something to do with it too. It took a lot of disappointment to react that point though. UNLV used to get a lot more fan support in the early 90’s.

UNLV football fan support is even worse for obvious reasons but that’s an extreme example.

UNLV sports isn’t going to attract nearly as much tourism as the pro sports teams. Knights and Raider games do attract a lot of opposing fans.

I think the drop-off in UNLV attendance has more to do with the circus act after Rice's firing than on-court performance. I mean on-court performance didn't help, but.....

 

[LadyStanley]

Congratulations

 

[LadyStanley]

Dan D'Uva, NHL Play-By-Broadcaster and Mentor To Students

D'uva mentors students when not doing pxp (podcast)