Confirmed with Link: Going Full Rutherford (or: He Traded Elmer for The Reverend.)

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Shaftception

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Apr 6, 2011
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He was brought here to help this team win the Stanley Cup and to bring the GM in waiting along slowly. And that appears to be exactly what he is doing.

Which is sheer stupidity since unlike past years they aren't even mistakenly considered one of the so called favorites, with very clear logical reasons behind why a good number of other teams will beat them, most in their own division. Lovejoy sure as hell isn't the final cog in the machine. They dumped a controlled growing (regardless of how much he has left to do) asset for an already grown expiring one. And if you try to logically explain that there must be some hidden reason, why does the current top western team 2 years running not feel the same?
 

drpepper

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Dec 10, 2013
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People, I get it if many of you are upset because you view the Despres trade as a symptomatic problem within the organization. If you view the Pens as a team that does not develop it's own talent. If you question how they handle the injection of youth into the line-up. Those are legitimate objections. I do have two objections to all of this.......

1. Don't hold up Detriot as the standard for player development and youth injection. Babcock is worse than us in using his youth. He will play them only when forced and if he can acquire a vet to replace youth, he will do it 100% of the time. Seriously, he just traded for Eric Cole and Marek Zidlicky! Really?
Lovejoy is 31 and very capable for this teams style, just think of the outrage if Despres was moved for Marek Zidlicky!

2. Don't hold Simon Despres as the standard for player development, he is not that good. All 4 of the younger defensemen are better in their role as defenseman than he is or will be. He was never going to be more than a 5/6 here, primarily because the others fit the 1, 2, 3, & 4 roles better. Sure he threw body checks, all defensemen do. But he hits, and is physical, Ok, I get it. However, try being in position, try defending, skate and pass north and south and not east and west. Don't waste your youth arguements on Despres. Physical guys, MacNeill and Roupp are waiting in the wings. "Old Time Hockey, Wren Blair, Toe Blake!"

Wow, what would this be doing if Despres had been sent to Jersey for Jagr.......talk about Board and fan conflict!

Who held Detroit up as the model for incorporating young players into the NHL? Babcock and Quenneville, for example, are notorious for not playing young players unless forced by injury or cap issues. I think ANA and maybe LAK have been used as examples.

Also Rutherford kicked the tires on Zidlicky.

I seriously question your assessment of the young defensemen.

First, MacNeill and Ruopp will never be more than AHL call-ups in the NHL; they absolutely cannot even come close to replicating Despres's ability to skate, pass, and carry the puck. They do not have even close the same vision. I am the absolute last person to advocate for "old timey hockey" and to suggest that Despres was in a similar vein is ludicrous.

Second, none of the defensemen who might actually be fulltime NHLers replicate Despres's abilities to be physical, play solid defense, and be a PMD.

Third, Despres is better than Dumoulin and likely always will be. Despres is better than Harrington currently, and I believe that Harrington is further behind where Despres was two years ago. I was extremely disappointed with Harrington's play in the NHL, and I think he has a lot of developing to do. Despres is better than Pouliot with the exception of his PPQB, and I think Pouliot's offensive skill set is slightly more refined. I would need evidence that Pouliot is really playing well (statistics - passing, zone entries, etc) versus playing because the coach trained him in juniors. Pouliot's been impressive in some ways, but I don't think he's earned his TOI. I think Maatta is a better player than Despres based mostly on their decision making. Despres clearly has the better physical tools.

Fourth, Despres has not had a problem with defensive positioning. His 1v1 defending could use a little work but so could every other defender on the Pens. His decision making in the neutral and offensive zones could use refining but so could most other defenders on the Pens. In terms of passing and carrying the puck, Despres has been solely responsible for the breakout and covering Scuderi's deficiencies in puck handling. He's performed so well that I doubt any of the new players brought in, Maatta, Pouliot, or Harrington could do as well. I think Dumoulin could cover for Scuderi but would need a lot more NHL time to do so.

Your valuation of Despres failed to mention that he needs to work on his discipline and decision making. These are the biggest holes in his game deciding when to go for a hit, learning when he needs to get back to cover his partner, making less risky plays in certain situations. Not having coached Despres, I have no idea if he has the ability to adapt his decision making. Based on his improvements in every other area of his game including stupid penalty taking, I would guess that he is adaptable as long as he gets the proper coaching and motivation.

Also, in terms of struggles or whatever weird ass description Rutherford used yesterday, moving Despres away from Scuderi or resting him a game or two should have taken care of the problem. The team tried neither suggesting that they didn't care that much about his struggles or they didn't really care about his development.

Trading Despres is not the biggest issue. Trading Despres and not maximizing his value is an issue. Trading Despres and failing to develop another young player is an issue.
 

BeautiPhil

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The one positive I see about this is for Despres himself. He was getting jerked around by two different coaching staff, and seemed greatly under-appreciated here by management and media.

In Anaheim, they actually give their young guys a chance. Fowler, Lindholm, and Vatanen being recent examples on defense. It's likely better for Despres's career that he was traded somewhere where he'll be given an opportunity and playing time to work through his deficiencies and develop properly. And he likely won't be given a liability of a defense partner like Scuderi.

I'm just sad he had to go like this, and that our management continues to make the same mistakes. It just never ends, and likely won't unless we actually clean house and fire these pathetic assistant GMs who can't evaluate talent.

Additionally, all of our 1st round picks from 2007-2011 are now gone aside from Beau Bennett, who is likely going to get shafted in a similar manner himself. And we have nothing to show for it. Just horrendous asset management going on in this organization, and there's really no excuse for it.
 

redsono93

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Jun 29, 2009
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If we got Brent Connoly I would be fine with it. Since both got pushed down in rankings due to being over crowded. I'd be okay if it was package deal with Depres and others for Phaneuf. I would get it veteran defenseman with mean streak. What I don't get is saying we need toughness and getting a guy named Lovejoy. Yeah because Lovejoy sounds so intimidating. I know GM'S make bad trades this one is up with being the worst. Been holding this in since yesterday still in shock. Makes no sense especially adding Cole for the Veteran presence role.
 

WheresRamziAbid

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Oct 31, 2013
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The one positive I see about this is for Despres himself. He was getting jerked around by two different coaching staff, and seemed greatly under-appreciated here by management and media.

In Anaheim, they actually give their young guys a chance. Fowler, Lindholm, and Vatanen being recent examples on defense. It's likely better for Despres's career that he was traded somewhere where he'll be given an opportunity and playing time to work through his deficiencies and develop properly. And he likely won't be given a liability of a defense partner like Scuderi.

I'm just sad he had to go like this, and that our management continues to make the same mistakes. It just never ends, and likely won't unless we actually clean house and fire these pathetic assistant GMs who can't evaluate talent.

I don't think he's going to get much of a chance unless the lose someone in the offseason. Right nows he is there 6 at best with...

Beauchemin
Vatanen
Lindholm
Fowler
Wisnewski

all easily ahead of him with Stoner as competition for the 6th spot.
 

BeautiPhil

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I don't think he's going to get much of a chance unless the lose someone in the offseason. Right nows he is there 6 at best with...

Beauchemin
Vatanen
Lindholm
Fowler
Wisnewski

all easily ahead of him with Stoner as competition for the 6th spot.

I can't see him not beating out Stoner. And I believe Beauchemin is a pending UFA, is he not? This year he'll be pushed down, but he'll get his chance I'm sure.
 

IcedCapp

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Aug 7, 2009
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I don't think he's going to get much of a chance unless the lose someone in the offseason. Right nows he is there 6 at best with...

Beauchemin
Vatanen
Lindholm
Fowler
Wisnewski

all easily ahead of him with Stoner as competition for the 6th spot.

I think they made the trade with a long term view in mind.

Right now, he'll be their 4 or 5, because they have some injuries, but when they are healthy, I do think it'll be a rotation with Stoner. But I don't think they made this move without a long term plan for him.

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/anaheim-ducks/francois-beauchemin/

Beauch is a UFA at the end of the year. Clearly they have a plan.
 

joeyjake5

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Feb 23, 2014
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Except for injury, if Scuds remains as a top 6 D, these trades make absolutely no sense. What happened last year in the playoffs will happen again this year, when scuds is on the ice the pens offense shuts down. They will have a tough time scoring. As for Scuds being a good PKER that a myth. He can't retrieve or shoot the puck out. The puck stays in the Pens zone too long when scuds is on the ice.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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If we are to assume what Murray said is true about kicking the tires on him for a while, now... yeah... they absolutely have a plan for him. I know we're used to seeing young talented guys pissed away but that's not how most other successful franchises do business.
 

Rectify

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I think they made the trade with a long term view in mind.

Right now, he'll be their 4 or 5, because they have some injuries, but when they are healthy, I do think it'll be a rotation with Stoner. But I don't think they made this move without a long term plan for him.

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/anaheim-ducks/francois-beauchemin/

Beauch is a UFA at the end of the year. Clearly they have a plan.

Weird to think some teams actually have long term plans.:help:

He will look great in ANA, can't wait to see him develop over his career, they are definitely my West team now. Gibson is also fantastic, so in general, watching the Ducks is fun and exciting.
 

WheresRamziAbid

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I can't see him not beating out Stoner. And I believe Beauchemin is a pending UFA, is he not? This year he'll be pushed down, but he'll get his chance I'm sure.

Yeah makes sense if Beauchenin walks, but I do think they rotate Stoner in.
 

Shwag33

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May 27, 2008
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I'm not mad Despres is gone... I can actually see all the reasons they said. Potential issues when he's targeted etc etc. I did like him though, always thought he got screwed by bylsma; at least MJ played him.

I just wish it would have been a better package; infact i'm shocked that was the best they could get. I don't know what happened behind closed doors, maybe thats all he's worth and people don't expect him to get much better. I would have been happier with Despres for Zidlickly + 2nd.... who knows maybe he's not worth that much, but I think he should have been.



Happy bortuzzo is gone... he was so overrated here just because he was 'big'. He still sucked at the NHL level. I think we could put John Scott on D and people would say.... well we need him because he's big.
 

Rectify

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I'm not mad Despres is gone... I can actually see all the reasons they said. Potential issues when he's targeted etc etc.

I just wish it would have been a better package; infact i'm shocked that was the best they could get. I don't know what happened behind closed doors, maybe thats all he's worth and people don't expect him to get much better.


I would have been happier with Despres for Zidlickly + 2nd.... who knows maybe he's not worth that much, but I think he should have been.

If "potential" issues when targeted were a legitimate excuse, Scuderi would have been blasted into the sun by now. Seriously, how can anyone accept that as a reasonable excuse for a 23 year old? Un-frickin-believable.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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I'm not mad Despres is gone... I can actually see all the reasons they said. Potential issues when he's targeted etc etc. I did like him though, always thought he got screwed by bylsma; at least MJ played him.

I just wish it would have been a better package; infact i'm shocked that was the best they could get. I don't know what happened behind closed doors, maybe thats all he's worth and people don't expect him to get much better. I would have been happier with Despres for Zidlickly + 2nd.... who knows maybe he's not worth that much, but I think he should have been.

Happy bortuzzo is gone... he was so overrated here just because he was 'big'. He still sucked at the NHL level. I think we could put John Scott on D and people would say.... well we need him because he's big.

C'mon now.

Teams have been dumping on Scuds side of the ice for months now and sending the F1 out of rotation to cover his outlets, so he is forced to move the puck.

That's called targeting a weakness. But vets and PK and stuff.
 

Shwag33

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May 27, 2008
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If "potential" issues when targeted were a legitimate excuse, Scuderi would have been blasted into the sun by now. Seriously, how can anyone accept that as a reasonable excuse for a 23 year old? Un-frickin-believable.



Scuderi is the same all the time... targeted or not. He may not be that good, but it's not about scuderi it's about Despres.
 

sf expat71

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Nov 10, 2008
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Still having a hard time accepting this trade a day later... We are kinda screwed now, I don't even know who we can pair to keep Scuds afloat. What a tremendous waste of an asset. We essentially traded him for a 5th rounder (isn't that what we got for Lovejoy?)...
 

Rectify

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Scuderi is the same all the time... targeted or not. He may not be that good, but it's not about scuderi it's about Despres.

You made it about Scuderi when you mentioned issues when targeted as a legitimate reason to trade a 23 year old. Scuderi is the main issue on the team when targeted, why wasn't he shipped out the door?
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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Scuderi is the same all the time... targeted or not. He may not be that good, but it's not about scuderi it's about Despres.

But seeing as how they were stapled to each other 95% of the season-to-date... talking about Scuderi and Despres ARE pretty heavily related. The question is whether or not you see Scuderi as the "issue" on the pairing or Despres. Clearly we know management's answer.
 

IcedCapp

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Actually... let me spin y'all a tale.

Despres improved at the beginning of the year.

Then there were a bunch of injuries to the d group and, in the month of December, Despres and Scuderi were separated and Despres ran his own pair.

It was then, in December, that everyone started talking about how good Despres was. How he had developed into one of their best dmen. He was helping to carry the defense.

When everyone got healthy, the coaching staff put him back with Scuderi but kept his minutes up.

It was then that Despres started to struggle again.

You can see it in their advanced stats, too. They were similar in certain possession numbers before December, then Despres took a big jump and Scuderi dropped more, then they normalized in January.

And, as Jiggy alluded to, teams have been 'targeting' Despres by going after Scuderi, who only had one move: give it to the better player on the pairing.
 

cheesedanish87

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Jun 27, 2012
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Still having a hard time accepting this trade a day later... We are kinda screwed now, I don't even know who we can pair to keep Scuds afloat. What a tremendous waste of an asset. We essentially traded him for a 5th rounder (isn't that what we got for Lovejoy?)...

That is such a silly argument, players values change, just because he was worth a 5th round pick 3 years ago doesn't mean hes worth a 5th round pick now.
 

Rectify

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Actually... let me spin y'all a tale.

Despres improved at the beginning of the year.

Then there were a bunch of injuries to the d group and, in the month of December, Despres and Scuderi were separated and Despres ran his own pair.

It was then, in December, that everyone started talking about how good Despres was. How he had developed into one of their best dmen. He was helping to carry the defense.

When everyone got healthy, the coaching staff put him back with Scuderi but kept his minutes up.

It was then that Despres started to struggle again.

You can see it in their advanced stats, too. They were similar in certain possession numbers before December, then Despres took a big jump and Scuderi dropped more, then they normalized in January.

And, as Jiggy alluded to, teams have been 'targeting' Despres by going after Scuderi, who only had one move: give it to the better player on the pairing.

Or bank it off the boards to no one in particular, which if I recall correctly, is Lovejoys cup of tea as well.
 

Shwag33

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May 27, 2008
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You made it about Scuderi when you mentioned issues when targeted as a legitimate reason to trade a 23 year old. Scuderi is the main issue on the team when targeted, why wasn't he shipped out the door?



That's the point, scuderi is a 3rd pairing D-man. He plays the same all the time whether he's singled out or not.


You made it about scuderi just because you wanted to.
 

Rectify

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That's the point, scuderi is a 3rd pairing D-man. He plays the same all the time whether he's singled out or not.


You made it about scuderi just because you wanted to.

I do hate me some Scuderi.:laugh:

But don't you think it would make much more sense just to keep Despres and move him away from Scuds? Rather than sell another asset, with a bright future, for 5th pairing D-man who has already reached his ceiling?
 
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