GOAT goalscorer?

[daver]

I think there is a clear upper tier of players who all have an argument to be the GOAT depending on how weight you put on peak, prime, longevity and playoffs but there is not a clear GOAT.

Richard
Howe
Hull
Wayne
Mario
Ovechkin

Wouldn't this make for an interesting HOH rankings project.

Click to read more...

 

[57special]

I would think that Bossy would have to be in there, also.

 

[tony d]

Bobby Hull for me. My top 5 goal scorers all time are:

1. Hull
2. Lemieux
3. Ovie
4. Gretzkty
5. Richard

 

[Lights911]

Bossy

 

[Asheville]

Take your pick...

 

[daver]

Bossy

What's the argument for Bossy that the others listed would not better him in?

 

[FerrisRox]

Wayne Gretzky.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Well, for starters, Bossy played in the league for 10 years on a pretty defensive-minded team and finished top 3 in goals in 7 of those seasons...seems like that might make the cut for conversation at least...

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

how can bossy possibly be the GOAT if he only beat gretzky in two out of the eight seasons they were both in the league?

with everyone else, their goal scoring peaks didn't overlap so we can say we can't really know whether peak bobby hull vs peak mario vs peak gretzky vs peak rocket vs peak ovechkin would have been better. but bossy vs gretzky, we know.

 

[steve141]

how can bossy possibly be the GOAT if he only beat gretzky in two out of the eight seasons they were both in the league?

with everyone else, their goal scoring peaks didn't overlap so we can say we can't really know whether peak bobby hull vs peak mario vs peak gretzky vs peak rocket vs peak ovechkin would have been better. but bossy vs gretzky, we know.

I agree with this. While Bossy was an outstanding goal scorer, he clearly has no case as the greatest of all time considering Gretzky outscored him by far during his own career.

It's interesting that nobody's mentioned Phil Esposito, who lead the league in goel scoring six consecutive times (nobody else has done it more than four times in a row). On the other hand, I can't ignore that his goal scoring pace jumped by 57% the year he joined Orr's team and plummeted by 39% the year he left.

 

[Canadiens1958]

how can bossy possibly be the GOAT if he only beat gretzky in two out of the eight seasons they were both in the league?

with everyone else, their goal scoring peaks didn't overlap so we can say we can't really know whether peak bobby hull vs peak mario vs peak gretzky vs peak rocket vs peak ovechkin would have been better. but bossy vs gretzky, we know.

Did anyone else do so?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Did anyone else do so?

finish higher than gretzky in goals twice? simmer and dionne both did.

 

[BenchBrawl]

how can bossy possibly be the GOAT if he only beat gretzky in two out of the eight seasons they were both in the league?

with everyone else, their goal scoring peaks didn't overlap so we can say we can't really know whether peak bobby hull vs peak mario vs peak gretzky vs peak rocket vs peak ovechkin would have been better. but bossy vs gretzky, we know.

Playoffs is the only angle where Bossy might have an edge against Gretzky.

In the same vein, Rocket Richard has a case for greatest of all-time based on playoffs.

To OP: We had this debate many times before, it's a tough one.I usually end up going with Mario.

Honestly I cannot get myself to put Gretzky or Howe #1 in that category.I don't buy it at the gut feeling level that one of them is the "greatest goalscorer ever".It doesn't feel right.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Bobby Hull for me. Followed by Richard and Ovechkin

Espo needs to be on your list of candidates as well. 717 goals, 1 70, 3 60, 1 50 G seasons. 0.56 gpg career, and an incredible 0.73 gpg over 9 years in Boston

 

[daver]

Playoffs is the only angle where Bossy might have an edge against Gretzky.

In the same vein, Rocket Richard has a case for greatest of all-time based on playoffs.

To OP: We had this debate many times before, it's a tough one.I usually end up going with Mario.

Honestly I cannot get myself to put Gretzky or Howe #1 in that category.I don't buy it at the gut feeling level that one of them is the "greatest goalscorer ever".It doesn't feel right.

This is what makes this such an interesting discussion. How much does one factor in the playmaking element to the discussion where Wayne, Mario, and Howe are concerned.

Do they get bonus points for being the best playmakers at the same time as being the best goalscorers?

 

[Sentinel]

What's the argument for Bossy that the others listed would not better him in?

What's the argument for Lemieux being better than Bossy?

Oh, and both Esposito and Hull Jr. should be there. Both were record-setters.

 

[Sentinel]

My list du jours (changes every week):

Gretzky
Hull / Ovechkin / Bossy
Richard / Esposito
Lemieux / Hull Jr. / Howe
Kurri / Bure / Lafleur

 

[daver]

What's the argument for Lemieux being better than Bossy?

Oh, and both Esposito and Hull Jr. should be there. Both were record-setters.

Peak goalscoring.

 

[bobbyking]

Playoffs is the only angle where Bossy might have an edge against Gretzky.

In the same vein, Rocket Richard has a case for greatest of all-time based on playoffs.

To OP: We had this debate many times before, it's a tough one.I usually end up going with Mario.

Honestly I cannot get myself to put Gretzky or Howe #1 in that category.I don't buy it at the gut feeling level that one of them is the "greatest goalscorer ever".It doesn't feel right.

richards playoffs are overrated, there was 2 rounds, what are everyone elses numbers after 2 rounds?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Well, you'd compare it to the Conference Final and Stanley Cup Final, not the first two rounds, right? Gretzky going ham on the 16th best team out of 21 (or whatever) isn't the same as what Richard was doing...

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Well, you'd compare it to the Conference Final and Stanley Cup Final, not the first two rounds, right? Gretzky going ham on the 16th best team out of 21 (or whatever) isn't the same as what Richard was doing...

this. Richard scored 82 G in 132 playoff games playing in nothing but the equivalent of conference and cup finals today.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Playoffs is the only angle where Bossy might have an edge against Gretzky.

In the same vein, Rocket Richard has a case for greatest of all-time based on playoffs.

To OP: We had this debate many times before, it's a tough one.I usually end up going with Mario.

Honestly I cannot get myself to put Gretzky or Howe #1 in that category.I don't buy it at the gut feeling level that one of them is the "greatest goalscorer ever".It doesn't feel right.

I don't get it though. By what metric does a guy like Bossy or Lemieux beat Gretzky? He has the raw totals, the peak years, the dominance versus peers, and a solid number of goal scoring "titles". Unless we are going to credit a guy who was injured/retired for things they didn't do, we can't place either above 99

 

[Sentinel]

Peak goalscoring.

Then you should really, really value Brett Hull.

 

[daver]

this. Richard scored 82 G in 132 playoff games playing in nothing but the equivalent of conference and cup finals today.

More like the 2nd and 3rd rounds actually. If you played a 4th seed in the o6, they might not make the playoffs in today's league.

That being said, all you need to know is how much better Richard was vs. his peers than the others were against their peers.

 

[daver]

Then you should really, really value Brett Hull.

Why?