GMJB moves so far - HF grades

[nameless1]

Douglas murray didnt have a 5 million dollar salary!! Garrison had one good year with FLA and has been garbage ever since. JB tried to milk that deal with Kesler what did you expect, he isn't stupid clearly the deals just werent there and he did not want another luongo situation

What are you talking about?
He had been good defensively for the last couple of years.
In fact...
He was ranked #1 in his career year with Florida.
He was so good...
That he even dragged Mike Weaver into the top 3 or 4.

He regressed last season...
But I think he was still in the top 10 to 15...
Solely base on defense.
His 4.6 million dollars was worth his skillset.

Why do you guys believe Botchford...
And say that Kesler will become a Luongo situation?
Luongo is still signed for a decade...
While Kesler's contract is up in 2 years.
That is already a major difference...
And that alone makes his contract moveable.
Plus...
At 5 million per season...
He is below market value.
The only reason why the offers did not come in was because Kesler only had 6 teams on his list...
And only 2 of them really needed him.
If he expanded his list...
There will be more suitors.
The lack of offers is all on Kesler...
And not because he is undesirable.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

hey guys, neutral fan here, lived in Vancouver for 6 years saw that whole Cup run etc.

I feel you didn't do great today, but it was not awful either. You added to your pool with 2 potentially good forwards. That said your roster next year looks worse than what you had.


I think the Nucks have no choice but to tank hard next year sadly. Your youth are all of the supporting cast variety. You have to get a number one centre, or a Norris type defenceman in your organization.

If you bend over next year and score a McDavid/Eichel/Hanifin you could re-boot the whole thing fairly quickly. If not, its just a long future of early playoff exits with the talent you have, if it all works out.

Next year's draft is more crucial for you than maybe any team in the league.

 

[nameless1]

For Pete's sake, you're worried about replacing the production of a 29-year-old four/five defenceman as though it's going to undermine the performance of a non-playoff team? Chances are the second-round pick won't even make the bigs, but if he does you win big-time. Plus you clear a roster spot and salary space for a younger, less expensive player to be your new fourth or fifth defenceman. You won't even notice that he's gone!

At that point of the discussion...
The benefit everyone listed is the freed cap space.
If the freed cap space is not used to replace him for someone better...
Then what is the point of trading him?
I merely followed that line of thought...
Because I largely disagree with it.

The second point people made later on is that he is not a good fit...
And that is a better argument.
If he is not a good fit...
Then he should be traded.
However...
That too is arguable...
But since he is ultimately traded...
I will accept it.
Regardless...
He should still get back more than a mere 2nd rounder.
His value as the top defensive target a summer or 2 ago should not...
And would not...
Have fallen that far.

 

[nameless1]

hey guys, neutral fan here, lived in Vancouver for 6 years saw that whole Cup run etc.

I feel you didn't do great today, but it was not awful either. You added to your pool with 2 potentially good forwards. That said your roster next year looks worse than what you had.


I think the Nucks have no choice but to tank hard next year sadly. Your youth are all of the supporting cast variety. You have to get a number one centre, or a Norris type defenceman in your organization.

If you bend over next year and score a McDavid/Eichel/Hanifin you could re-boot the whole thing fairly quickly. If not, its just a long future of early playoff exits with the talent you have, if it all works out.

Next year's draft is more crucial for you than maybe any team in the league.

I agree.
Unfortunately...
They should have went all futures...
And not do a retool.
I think most knowledgeable fans would have accepted that more than this half-ass effort today.
The team got worse now...
And it did not get that much better for the future either.
It looks to be in no-man's land...
At best.

 

[nameless1]

Career-wise, Kesler has been far superior to Ryan. The trouble is, Kesler has a lot of injuries and is past his prime. Three years ago you would have got the sun, the moon and the stars for Ryan Kesler. Now you get less than what Bobby Ryan fetched last year. I don't know what use it would have been to write another Luongo-story for Kesler.

Kesler is not past his prime.
If he is...
Murray would not have traded for him.
He sees him as that second liner to put his team over-the-top.
Kesler is not 2011 Kesler anymore...
But why do you underestimate him so much?
If Kesler expanded his list...
He could have gotten a Bobby Ryan-esque return...
Easily.
This one is all on Kesler.

Kesler will never become the Luongo situation.
He is signed for 2 more years...
Versus a decade for Luongo.
Why do you guys believe in Botchford?
The guy is a hack.

 

[NucksOnly]

My goodness we are a fickle bunch, never happy with anything... Today was okay, it wasn't horrible by any means.

Ryan Kesler for Nick Bonino, Luca Sbisa, 24th OA
- Gave the trade a solid B. Would of loved the 10th pick, but we were trading from a point of weakness. Kesler didn't want to be here and only gave us two teams to deal with compared to Spezza which Ottawa can contact 20 teams. What do you really expect in a situation like this? Hold out for longer and let drag out longer than necessary? Benning dealt with it promptly, good for him and the organization.

Jason Garrison, Costello, 7th for 2nd
- Gave it a C. Wish we got a little more another 2nd or 3rd would of been ideal, but this is basically a cap dump. Garrison wasn't fitting in with the team's plan. I had foot speed issues and seemed struggle through out the year. Became expendable with Sbisa at a cheaper price and this give more of an opportunity for Corrado to make the line up.

3rd for Dorsett

- Gave it a C-. Probably could had him for a 4th or 5th round. As previously talked about in other threads, looks like a Desjardins project. Asset management could of been better.

Drafting

Jake Virtanen

Gave him a B+. Basically a hometown Powerforward that skates like wind, drive to the net and has a wicked released. Give me a big man with these set of skill any day of the week over small man with same skills. Comparisons include Neely, E. Kane, and Ignila.

Jared McCann

Gave him a B+. Pretty much a consensus 15-20rd pick, only one publication had him at 25. A steal at 24 imo. Models his game after Kesler/Bergeron. 200 feet player, versatile, a puck hound... whats not to like. Hell, we got a potential younger Kesler for an older Kesler.

 

[LiquidSnake]

hey guys, neutral fan here, lived in Vancouver for 6 years saw that whole Cup run etc.

I feel you didn't do great today, but it was not awful either. You added to your pool with 2 potentially good forwards. That said your roster next year looks worse than what you had.


I think the Nucks have no choice but to tank hard next year sadly. Your youth are all of the supporting cast variety. You have to get a number one centre, or a Norris type defenceman in your organization.

If you bend over next year and score a McDavid/Eichel/Hanifin you could re-boot the whole thing fairly quickly. If not, its just a long future of early playoff exits with the talent you have, if it all works out.

Next year's draft is more crucial for you than maybe any team in the league.

Guessing you're a jet fan. And your situation is much much more dire.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Don't like the names I'm hearing in free agency from Vancouver media, but there are good players out there. Quite a few scoring wingers actually - the Canucks biggest need IMO.

There could be a handful guys we haven't heard about. With how much cap space Benning managed to clear, it's likely.

I hope they haven't given up on Santo though. They need as much scoring as they can get, are short on RH shots and don't have anyone at 3C that can compare. He's a no-brainer if they can't find someone better from outside the organization.

I doubt Bolland is a target now that they got Bonino. Bolland will make too much to slot in at 3C.

Moving Garrison opens the door to really change the look up front. That was an absolute must if this team hopes to turn things around. The cap space is there - remains to be seen if they can get the job done.

The Canucks actually don't have that much cap space. Say Tanev gets $3.5M, Kassian $2M, Horvat makes the roster, that leaves $12M for 2 forwards (1 top 6) and a goalie plus whatever clearance you want for injury callups, etc.

 

[racerjoe]

The Canucks actually don't have that much cap space. Say Tanev gets $3.5M, Kassian $2M, Horvat makes the roster, that leaves $12M for 2 forwards (1 top 6) and a goalie plus whatever clearance you want for injury callups, etc.

12 mil for that is a lot of room. We could sign stasny for 7 mil, and still have five mil for a goalie and player. And I am against diving big into this FA class.


Ok, stayed away from these type of threads for a while to let it digest. Not a terrible day. I am liking much of it more and more.

The Kesler trade
Turns out we were way more handcuffed than I thought. If I had know his demands were down to two teams, and not two teams were most interested I may have wanted a lot more. Having said that, I like what we got in the end. Without garrison, I do like sbisa, puck mover even though he doesn't have a huge offensive upside, reminds me a bit of Tanev. Bonino to me is a guy who is probably better suited to center than Santoreli, would have loved to still have him on the team, but see nothing wrong with a slight upgrade on him. And a first is the asking price.

I hated the garrison, I understand he would only go to two teams, but would have preferred to just keep him then.

I don't mind the Dorset trade. We needed an upgrade, it's just an extra third we had anyway.

Loved JV, would have loved any of the four here though. Will say I like that he did what he did at such a young age the most.

McCann... I understand people being mad we didn't pick Barbs, but makes me question if I missed something to have 6 other teams so far pass on him. Bad interview? Bad combine? Who knows. Anyway, McCann is a great skating great shooting two way Center with outstanding hands, and what I like the most as I said when I was higher on him was his hockey iq.

I am not sure how to characterize how I feel over all, I think just happy it's over.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

little to early to grade. if we get a top 3 pick next draft, A++.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

[ANA/VAN] Ryan Kesler for Nick Bonino, Luca Sbisa, 24th OA

GRADE: A

I love this trade! Kesler has been an overrated injury plagued mess since 2011. We got a 1st round pick, a two-way 2nd line center and a serviceable defenseman while clearing a couple mil off the books? Hahaha, I take that deal and run away laughing.

~

[VAN/TB] Jason Garrison, 7th in 2015, Jeff Costello for TB's 2nd (50th OA) ‎

GRADE: D+

We gave up a dependable top four defenseman and a 7th round pick for a 2nd round pick?

...Also who is Jeff Costello?

~

[NYR/VAN] Derek Dorsett to VAN for 85th Overall

GRADE: B+

I like it, established grit in the bottom six and someone who can throw fists for a 3rd round pick that may or (probably) may not pan out? What the hell, why not? Especially since we're stacked with picks. Dorsett was an animal in Columbus, he's going to be a fan favorite here.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

My initial reaction to the two trades was shock and a concern that the Canucks were getting screwed. After seeing what Neal garnered in return for Pittsburgh, I now feel pretty confident in saying that the trade market just isn't particularly strong at the moment. Benning got what was likely the best return possible at the moment, and the Kesler situation needed to be resolved now - not later.

The Garrison one hurts a bit, and we likely won't see what that move was made to accommodate for a little while yet (cap space for free agency), but rebuilding a team does mean making some tough decisions.

I'm thrilled with the Virtanen pick, and if it's true that Florida wanted more than our 6th/24th/Shink offer for the 1st overall, I'm glad we stood pat. I'm also content with the McCann pick.

Overall, I'm not overjoyed with the returns, but I'm also aware there was little Benning could do to improve them. Sucks, but that's the way it is.

 

[Canucklove]

Sure...
Retooling...
And yet you have already pegged a top 10 pick for the team already.
What kind of retooling is that?
That is more akin to a full on rebuild.

Plus...
Someone still need to take Garrison's place in the top 4.
Do you suggest the team just leave it...
And replace him with a lesser player?
What is the point?

Sure...
The team thought about buying Garrison out...
But he is still a valuable commodity...
As he was ranked as one of the better free agency option just last year.
He does not lose all value in just one year...
Just because a lot of people wrote him off.
The fact that he can still fetch a second rounder...
Despite the fact that he only have 2 teams on his list...
Allegedly...
Tells me that.
Even if he is not a fit for Desjardins' style...
I can pretty much guarantee you that the team will never just waive him and buy him out...
Because that is piss poor asset management.
It was probably just a pressure tactic to get him to waive the No Trade Clause.

Yes...
He cost 4.6 million dollars per year...
But his skillset warrants such a price.
It is considered to be fair market value...
And honestly...
A non-issue.
Teams still want him...
But the partners are limited...
Because he only had 2 teams on his mind.
Again...
It is speculation...
And no one is sure.

A. We have given him 2 years now and he was terrible both.
B. Skillset? all he has is a hard shot that has no accuracy. Horrible defensively. Clunky skater. Leaves guys open in front of the net and never takes his man. Doesnt clear the crease when he should.
C. We arent done....these are the first moves and theres word we are in on Myers, and oh yeah free agency is in 5 days...I say we leave his spot anyway and let Corrado fit in, do you know what a re-tool is? it usually includes losing and getting top 10 picks for 2-3 years with which im fine with. Unless your content getting swept in the first round for the next 5 years and staying mediocre, i would rather lose to get better and contend in 3-4 years.
How would the threat of being bought out make him want to waive his no-trade? Do you know what a buy out is? I'm pretty sure any player would love to be bought out

 

[salo franchise]

Kesler trade: B

Did the best we could of in a crap situation. Kesler needs to accept some of the blame here.

Garrison trade: B+

Basically a cap dump. He can't skate (groin) and couldn't hit the net this year. With Tanev to resign we had too many expensive Dmen. NTC made it impossible to get more value. 2nd is fine. Also we got him as a free agent so I'll take it as a net positive....

Dorsett: C-

Don't hate it. Would have preferred to give up a 4th or 5th. He's a Diaz/Weise value of player (going from recent com parables). From the media reports he seemed to be a request from Desjardins though, so good to make the new coach happy I guess...

Santorelli potentially walking: Undecided

Will depend how much he signs for with another team: If over 3 million or two years I give letting him go an A. If less, a B or a C (Depending on what he is signed for).

Virtanen pick: B

Really liked Ehlers but Virtanen was my 2nd choice at 6.

McCann pick: A+

I think he will end up being the best pick we could have made at 24. Very happy.

 

[Canucklove]

I dont get why everyones hating on the dorsett deal. We got a relatively young western Canadian boy who hits hard and forechecks well. He is a great team mate and will stand up for the Sedins which we have been lacking FOREVER. We need a better fourth line as opposed to that weird mix we've had for the last 5 years.
Lets be honest here, what's the % of 3rd round picks panning out?? I bet its under 15%

 

[nameless1]

A. We have given him 2 years now and he was terrible both.
B. Skillset? all he has is a hard shot that has no accuracy. Horrible defensively. Clunky skater. Leaves guys open in front of the net and never takes his man. Doesnt clear the crease when he should.
C. We arent done....these are the first moves and theres word we are in on Myers, and oh yeah free agency is in 5 days...I say we leave his spot anyway and let Corrado fit in, do you know what a re-tool is? it usually includes losing and getting top 10 picks for 2-3 years with which im fine with. Unless your content getting swept in the first round for the next 5 years and staying mediocre, i would rather lose to get better and contend in 3-4 years

You...
My good sir...
Honestly do not know what a re-tool is.
What you have listed is more like a rebuild.
But I digress.

I also do not appreciate your patronizing attitude.
Believe whatever you want to believe.
Clearly...
We cannot agree with each other...
So we will part ways here.
Enjoy your night.

 

[Ryp37]

F
Pronouncing Odjick

 

[Wilch]

Kesler trade C-

Went the half ass route of not enough futures and not enough NHL ready players in quality. Either go for the tenth overall, or go for better roster players.

Garrison trade F

Just handled a serviceable top four player who wanted to be around in the most horrible manner possible while yielding a worthless return.

The draft B+

No major reaches off the board. Failed to move despite all the noise they made in the media. Terribly planned out.

 

[Barney Gumble]

I dont get why everyones hating on the dorsett deal. We got a relatively young western Canadian boy who hits hard and forechecks well. He is a great team mate and will stand up for the Sedins which we have been lacking FOREVER. We need a better fourth line as opposed to that weird mix we've had for the last 5 years.
Lets be honest here, what's the % of 3rd round picks panning out?? I bet its under 15%

I'd like to forget what Sestito did that night as well but have you forgotten how he went ape**** after Nolan tried to cheapshot Sedin?

 

[btdvox]

I give Jim Benning an A- . I think alot of HFboard posters are terrible analysts and play too much GM mode on NHL14. Welcome to the real world, Benning did what all true Canucks fans wanted, a real rebuild.

Kesler for Bonino, Sbisa, McCann(24th) and Dorsett (85th)? Yes please.

Garrison is obviously a Cap Dump which makes me excited for July 1.

Jake Virtanen will be a stud. May even play a few games this year , less than 8 most likely. Im so happy we didn't choose Nick Ritchie.

In the end, we will get to see young prospects finally on our team and not the old Same old same ol.
Shinkaruk, Horvat, Jensen with large possibility to make the team.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

I give Jim Benning an A- . I think slot of HFboard posters are terrible analysts and play too much GM mode on NHL14. Welcome to the real world, Benning did whet all true Canucks fans wanted, a real rebuild.

Kesler for Bonino, Sbisa, McCann(24th) and Dorsett (85th)? Yes please.

Garrison is obviously a Cap Dump which makes me excited for July 1.

In the end, we will get to see young prospects finally on our team and not the old Same old same ol.
Shinkaruk, Horvat, Jensen with large possibility to make the team.

I wanted a rebuild with some offense...

EDIT:

Also how does Shinkaruk have a "large possibility to make the team" ... guy hasn't played hockey in 7 months...

 

[btdvox]

I wanted a rebuild with some offense...

EDIT:

Also how does Shinkaruk have a "large possibility to make the team" ... guy hasn't played hockey in 7 months...

I wonder what Free Agency is for.... Maybe some offense? Yah I think so.

 

[fancouver]

1) Kesler Trade = A
Not sure how you can really improve on the situation when Kesler gives you 1.5 teams to trade to. It didn't even seem like Chicago had any serious offers. And I am sure Benning inquired about the 10th, but wanted it done before the draft-so he settled on the 24th.

2) Garrison = B
Didn't fit the faster version Canucks the management wants to build. Pretty much a free 50th overall pick and no cap retained.

3) Dorsett = B-
Would've preferred a 4th rounder, but hopefully he becomes a mainstay on the 4th line.

4) Draft = A
BPA in all positions.
I wanted Virtanen at 6
McCann was rated 10-15 and seems like a Horvat-lite with a faster release.

 

[Chubros]

It seems silly to grade a draft on the day of. You really need to wait 3-5 years to see how Benning made out on that front.

 

[Iridescent*]

1) Kesler trade - C

He could have done more to force Kesler's hand. By all reports, Kesler is a massive tool who isn't even liked by a good percentage of his own teammates. Let alone from management where reports have been leaking for years of their patience wearing thin with him. He could and should have done everything in his power to make Kesler's life completely miserable.

Sit him and his agent down and tell him that if he doesn't start playing ball, you're going to reciprocate the sentiment. Threaten to keep him and relegate him to the 4th line. Threaten to put him through waivers. He wants to play hard ball, play back.

Yeah, probably not a good idea to have him in the dressing room with all that going on, but trades can be made all throughout the season. And while playing 4 minutes a game with grinders, with the looming threat of being waved and ending up in Edmonton hanging over his head, at some point he's going to pony up a better list of teams.

Rookie GM mistake. Just came headfist into a tough situation and wasn't as hard about it as he should have been.

2) Garrison trade - A

We needed to dump an older, slow, high paid defenseman. We dumped an older, slow, high paid defenseman. We even got a second rounder for him. Smart move here burning some of the chaff.

3) Dorsett - F

Stupid trade. Not even going to bother elaborating on why. It was remarkably dumb.

4) Draft - C-

Virtanen has size, great wheels, and a good shot. He also has a brick for a head, awful iceQ, and cannot utilize his teammates well in the offensive zone/rush.

What players share similar traits? Nearly every third liner in the league. Not a fan.

McCann is just more of the same. Bottom 6 fodder.

All in all, I'm not happy with this team. Particularly with Linden and Benning. Linden a little moreso. Benning is a moron, but Linden hired that moron.