GMJB moves so far - HF grades

[Ciao]

4th in total minutes per game on the blueline this past season and the season before. Was gifted too much time on the PP this year though I'd mitigate that by saying Edler had too much time on the PK (add more minutes to Garrison over Edler here).

So Edler was five?

 

[Canucklove]

The Garrison and Dorsett trades today were truly awful. Freakin Douglas Murray as a UFA got two 2nd round picks in a deep draft and we only get the 50th for Garrison. Reto Berra got a 2nd just this year... And we throw in a 7th?!?

Giving up a 3rd for Dorsett is completely mind boggling. Those kind of players come for free and he has a crappy cap hit to boot.

Yeah and what were their contracts....have you ever heard of a salary dump??

 

[ginner classic]

You guys are morons...Kesler only gave 2 teams and everybody knew it...his hands were tied. That was the best deal available and you dont want that clown coming back to camp. I would have traded Garrison for a bag of pucks, and to not have to retain any salary from that trade is fantastic. Derek Dorsett plays a hard forechecking game and has playing experience with Will Desjardins. Give these moves some time and have PATIENCE. One thing though, was not a huge fan of the Virtanen move though i would have prefered ritchie or Nylander

Again.....dont preach patience to people that have been around as long as this lot has.

 

[Proto]

On a scale of 5 servings of meat and potatoes I'd rate today's moves as somewhere around a 2.

-Virtanen was OK, but the McCann pick seems a little questionable given the current state of the team's prospect pool and its plethora of lower upside centers. I'd have much preferred they swung for the fences with one of their two picks.

-the value for Kesler was probably as good as it'd get given the context but they absolutely needed to get long term pieces in return. "Win now" will be the death of this team

-with Garrison they threw away a perfectly good player for very little. Unless his groin is completely shot this was a terrible trade. They should be trying to keep solid veterans with good attitudes who love playing in Vancouver.

-the Dorsett trade was a complete waste of assets. The fact that they spent a 3rd on him while Tampa got Garrison and a 7th for a 2nd rounder would be hilarious if it wasn't so depressing. On it's own the loss of a 3rd isn't a huge deal but this is the type of guy you can easily pick up for nothing.

This is what I would probably say if I wasn't spitting hot fire.

No no no, you've got it all wrong. I'm more confident than ever that we'll end up with McDavid, so that these stock-picking charlatans never have to change and never get found out.

Haha. I admire the enthusiasm.

 

[nameless1]

It's not 2009 anymore. This is 2014. You think Kesler (or Garrison) will ever be worth more than they are now? Like, in the future, not the past?

Yes.
Yes I do.
I have seen similar ad lesser players traded for more.

Douglas Murray...
For example...
Got 2 2nd rounders as a impending UFA...
In 2013.
Garrison is a far superior player...
In my opinion...
Because he can handle both ends of the ice.
I would have been happy with a similar return...
Without the need to add more...
Even if they are minor and inconsequential pieces.

A player of Kesler's caliber should have gotten a Bobby Ryan-esque return...
Or something similar.
Ryan may be a better scorer...
But Kesler's defense is just as valuable.
I would even say they are a wash...
And that is why I am miffed.

 

[Canucklove]

Again.....dont preach patience to people that have been around as long as this lot has.

If ya'll have been around for so long then you should know its time to get younger and change things up, things were stale and Garrison had to be the biggest bonehead on our team (besides Edler) Good riddance <Sbisa

 

[Drop the Sopel]

-with Garrison they threw away a perfectly good player for very little. Unless his groin is completely shot this was a terrible trade. They should be trying to keep solid veterans with good attitudes who love playing in Vancouver.

-the Dorsett trade was a complete waste of assets. The fact that they spent a 3rd on him while Tampa got Garrison and a 7th for a 2nd rounder would be hilarious if it wasn't so depressing. On it's own the loss of a 3rd isn't a huge deal but this is the type of guy you can easily pick up for nothing.

On Garrison, I thought he was a good player, but if this team wants to try and play an aggressive, up-tempo Willie Desjardins style, Garrison might not be the greatest fit. Especially if his body isn't holding up. I reserve judgement on this trade until I see what shakes out in free agency. If you find an equally valuable player at a similar salary, you come out ahead by adding that 2nd rd pick. Not to mention stockpiling youth and picks should be a big priority for Benning IMO.

Didn't like the Dorseet trade. They overpaid. Really hope he can bring something of value, play more than 1 year in Vancouver, or be traded at the deadline for the 3rd or so.

 

[nameless1]

Yeah and what were their contracts....have you ever heard of a salary dump??

For what?
Cap space?
Who will replace Garrison's production?
That replacement will eat into that cap space anyways.

 

[Canucklove]

Yes.
Yes I do.
I have seen similar ad lesser players traded for more.

Douglas Murray...
For example...
Got 2 2nd rounders as a UFA...
In 2013.
Garrison is a far superior player...
In my opinion...
Because he can handle both ends of the ice.
I would have been happy with a similar return...
Without the need to add more...
Albeit minor pieces.

A player of Kesler's caliber should have gotten a Bobby Ryan-esque return...
Or something similar.
Ryan may be a better scorer...
But Kesler's defense is just as valuable.
I would even say they are a wash...
And that is why I am miffed.

Douglas murray didnt have a 5 million dollar salary!! Garrison had one good year with FLA and has been garbage ever since. JB tried to milk that deal with Kesler what did you expect, he isn't stupid clearly the deals just werent there and he did not want another luongo situation

 

[Barney Gumble]

So Edler was five?

He actually was 2nd in total minutes per game this past season. Tanev was slightly behind Garrison (Torts probably didn't trust him enough to use him more early on the season - plus Torts was overusing lefty Hamhuis way too much early in the season).

 

[Canucklove]

For what?
Cap space?
Who will replace Garrison's production?
That replacement will eat into that cap space anyways.

Don't you get it...We arent trying to replace his production, we are re-tooling. Best draft in years next year if we get another top 10 we will have another huge building piece. That 1st line center everyone is complaining we dont have anymore. they were thinking about buying out Garrison the fact we got a trade out of it is a steal on its own

 

[DadBod]

Benning said candidly in his interview Kesler gave him a couple teams to trade to.


Looks like he did the best he did, and I praise Benning

 

[ginner classic]

If ya'll have been around for so long then you should know its time to get younger and change things up, things were stale and Garrison had to be the biggest bonehead on our team (besides Edler) Good riddance <Sbisa

Long enough to remember the dan woodley jason herter jim sandlak style rebuilds.....and to have complained about them.

 

[ddawg1950]

I did not want to give Kesler away, and I at this point all I can do is wait and see how Bonino and Sbiza play and how McCann turns out...obviously he is two plus years away.

But I am glad Kesler is gone. From the moment he opened his trap about wanting out, he was dead to me.

So glad we are moving on.

This team will be better off without him.

So good move by the GM.

I'm hoping the Garrison trade is more than a cap dump. A precursor to an FA siging that actually helps us is this year the most obvious hope. Otherwise it seems a horrible waste of an asset.

But the grade here has to be an incomplete.

Much more needs to be done by October.

 

[Proto]

I think it was a steal given the draft position with an even better steal available.

Compared straight up against Barbashev, I agree, it's not even close. Personally, I like Barbashev's game more than I like Virtanen's.

But aside from that, getting McCann at 24 is about the same as getting Shinkaruk where we got him for me, personally.

I think McCaan's a great pick relative to what I expected but not relative to what was on the board.

I can understand that. I'm just not a fan of taking two guys in the 1st round that both have "explanations" for why they they grossly underperformed players selected around them. I think the case for Virtanen (which I wasn't totally on board with) was at least more compelling than McCann's. McCann strikes me more as a guy that people were high on and didn't re-adjust accordingly. He should have fallen farther in the rankings in my opinion.

 

[palefire]

The more I think about the Dorsett deal, the more I like the analogy to someone thinking they can pick stocks. "Sure you can typically get a player with his talent and stat line for free, but for THIS PARTICULAR 4-4-8 in 51 GP RW we're willing to part with the #85 pick in the draft, because one of us knows him from junior and we're pretty sure there's something there." It's so ****ing depressing.

This is what you get when you hire someone who got the reputation of a "master talent evaluator" because they did well at the draft for a few years. The same thing you get when you hire a stock-picker whose last ten picks went up: a charlatan.

 

[Ciao]

Yes.
Yes I do.
I have seen similar ad lesser players traded for more.

Douglas Murray...
For example...
Got 2 2nd rounders as a impending UFA...
In 2013.
Garrison is a far superior player...
In my opinion...
Because he can handle both ends of the ice.
I would have been happy with a similar return...
Without the need to add more...
Even if they are minor and inconsequential pieces.

A player of Kesler's caliber should have gotten a Bobby Ryan-esque return...
Or something similar.
Ryan may be a better scorer...
But Kesler's defense is just as valuable.
I would even say they are a wash...
And that is why I am miffed.

Career-wise, Kesler has been far superior to Ryan. The trouble is, Kesler has a lot of injuries and is past his prime. Three years ago you would have got the sun, the moon and the stars for Ryan Kesler. Now you get less than what Bobby Ryan fetched last year. I don't know what use it would have been to write another Luongo-story for Kesler.

 

[ginner classic]

Benning said candidly in his interview Kesler gave him a couple teams to trade to.


Looks like he did the best he did, and I praise Benning

He should have asked for 6 teams or told him to sit down and shut up. so yeah....he did not do well.

 

[Proto]

On Garrison, I thought he was a good player, but if this team wants to try and play an aggressive, up-tempo Willie Desjardins style, Garrison might not be the greatest fit. Especially if his body isn't holding up. I reserve judgement on this trade until I see what shakes out in free agency. If you find an equally valuable player at a similar salary, you come out ahead by adding that 2nd rd pick. Not to mention stockpiling youth and picks should be a big priority for Benning IMO.

Didn't like the Dorseet trade. They overpaid. Really hope he can bring something of value, play more than 1 year in Vancouver, or be traded at the deadline for the 3rd or so.

But who's available in free agency? It sounds like Ryan Miller is their #1 target. Other than that, the guys they're rumoured to have talked to are Hiller, bottom-of-the-roster garbage fires like Vitale and Engelland, and Dave Bolland. There hasn't been much to suggest any positive acquisitions.

 

[iFan]

Hard to judge the Kesler trade... If Bonino can score 20+ goals for us then I think its a solid trade, I like his drafting, Virtanen is a great pick although I like Ehlers too BMac made a funny poke at him saying he needs to put on 20lbs to be small lol BMac also said Ehlers weighted in at 160lbs, that's a little light..

 

[GranvilleIsland]

9. Bennington Bear made it possible for a day to utter the phrase, "We would have done better with Dave Nonis" and have it not immediately be seen as an ironic joke. That seems nigh inconceivable.

Because you know better then a guy with 23 years experience evaluating talent. Why are you not the GM?

You're stat watching McCann.

Benning says he wants a gritty two-way team that is deep. You might not agree with that but at least he has a direction and has shown that's the way he's going.

Ex: LA forwards are built with two-way centers and scoring wingers (Anze Kopitar and Mike Richards) (Jeff Carter, Marian Gaborik, Justin Williams)

Right now based on what we have drafted we have (Bo Horvat, Jared McCann and Brendan Gaunce) (Jake Virtanen and Hunter Shinkaruk)

I'm content with the direction thus far.

Today we also acquire Nick Bonino who out scored Kesler without much time w/ Getzlaf and Perry. He also is making half of Keslers salary for the next 3 seasons so if he keeps improving look out.

 

[nameless1]

Don't you get it...We arent trying to replace his production, we are re-tooling. Best draft in years next year if we get another top 10 we will have another huge building piece. That 1st line center everyone is complaining we dont have anymore. they were thinking about buying out Garrison the fact we got a trade out of it is a steal on its own

Sure...
Retooling...
And yet you have already pegged a top 10 pick for the team already.
What kind of retooling is that?
That is more akin to a full on rebuild.

Plus...
Someone still need to take Garrison's place in the top 4.
Do you suggest the team just leave it...
And replace him with a lesser player?
What is the point?

Sure...
The team thought about buying Garrison out...
But he is still a valuable commodity...
As he was ranked as one of the better free agency option just last year.
He does not lose all value in just one year...
Just because a lot of people wrote him off.
The fact that he can still fetch a second rounder...
Despite the fact that he only have 2 teams on his list...
Allegedly...
Tells me that.
Even if he is not a fit for Desjardins' style...
I can pretty much guarantee you that the team will never just waive him and buy him out...
Because that is piss poor asset management.
It was probably just a pressure tactic to get him to waive the No Trade Clause.

Yes...
He cost 4.6 million dollars per year...
But his skillset warrants such a price.
It is considered to be fair market value...
And honestly...
A non-issue.
Teams still want him...
But the partners are limited...
Because he only had 2 teams on his mind.
Again...
It is speculation...
And no one is sure.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

But who's available in free agency? It sounds like Ryan Miller is their #1 target. Other than that, the guys they're rumoured to have talked to are Hiller, bottom-of-the-roster garbage fires like Vitale and Engelland, and Dave Bolland. There hasn't been much to suggest any positive acquisitions.

Don't like the names I'm hearing in free agency from Vancouver media, but there are good players out there. Quite a few scoring wingers actually - the Canucks biggest need IMO.

There could be a handful guys we haven't heard about. With how much cap space Benning managed to clear, it's likely.

I hope they haven't given up on Santo though. They need as much scoring as they can get, are short on RH shots and don't have anyone at 3C that can compare. He's a no-brainer if they can't find someone better from outside the organization.

I doubt Bolland is a target now that they got Bonino. Bolland will make too much to slot in at 3C.

Moving Garrison opens the door to really change the look up front. That was an absolute must if this team hopes to turn things around. The cap space is there - remains to be seen if they can get the job done.

 

[Ciao]

For what?
Cap space?
Who will replace Garrison's production?
That replacement will eat into that cap space anyways.

For Pete's sake, you're worried about replacing the production of a 29-year-old four/five defenceman as though it's going to undermine the performance of a non-playoff team? Chances are the second-round pick won't even make the bigs, but if he does you win big-time. Plus you clear a roster spot and salary space for a younger, less expensive player to be your new fourth or fifth defenceman. You won't even notice that he's gone!

 

[Barney Gumble]

For Pete's sake, you're worried about replacing the production of a 29-year-old four/five defenceman as though it's going to undermine the performance of a non-playoff team? Chances are the second-round pick won't even make the bigs, but if he does you win big-time. Plus you clear a roster spot and salary space for a younger, less expensive player to be your new fourth or fifth defenceman. You won't even notice that he's gone!

You will if Tanev gets hurt (and Benning doesn't get a right side offensive D this off-season) because that means Edler likely shifts to the right side (where he's even worse than Garrison on that side).

I'm thinking (or rather hoping) Benning spends some money on a short-term deal for that defenseman (either by free agency or by trade). Tons of time left to do this.