Post-Game Talk: [GM66] Canucks defeat Stars | 5-2 | Di Giuseppe, Kuzmenko, Beauvillier, Brisebois, & Miller

[canuckking1]

Absolutely.

The division is extremely weak.
Vegas is the only scary team and who knows what the status of Mark Stone is moving forward. We had 92 points last year… the team is better now and has wayyyy better coaching.

Way better coaching? lmao, Bruce has produced far better results than Tocchet ever has.

 

[Play]

You may as well get ChatGPT to predict Canucks seasons..because that's how familiar this shit is.

That was a low blow , dude

 

[JohnHodgson]

Way better coaching? lmao, Bruce has produced far better results than Tocchet ever has.

Are you watching the games? If you’re watching the games you would understand.

Tocchet is preaching habits and structure. Bruce was preaching unsustainable pond hockey and relying on Vezina level goaltending.

Tocchet is a far better coach than Bruce for this team.

 

[calnuck]

Are you watching the games? If you’re watching the games you would understand.

Tocchet is preaching habits and structure. Bruce was preaching unsustainable pond hockey and relying on Vezina level goaltending.

Tocchet is a far better coach than Bruce <b>for this team.</b>

I think that’s the important part: “for this team.”
He was a breath of fresh air for this team and a 180 from Green which they desperately needed.
They’ve been playing much better since Tocchet came on and it reflects in the pk and high danger chances.
The question is, is this going to be the norm or will it be the same situation as last year?
I’m cautiously optimistic as this is the coach and style Allvin and Rutherford want so there will be alignment top to bottom organizationally.
Adding to the fact that Abbostsford finally has a coach that isn’t a dinosaur helps tremendously.
There’s no doubt that the roster will be better adding Hronek and a healthy Mikhayev in addition to what we should assume will be trades for Garland and/ or Boeser and hopefully Myers.
But we’ve seen this show before. As a lifelong Canucks fan I hope for the best but always expect the worst lol

 

[canuckking1]

Are you watching the games? If you’re watching the games you would understand.

Tocchet is preaching habits and structure. Bruce was preaching unsustainable pond hockey and relying on Vezina level goaltending.

Tocchet is a far better coach than Bruce for this team.

I heard the same things about Bruce last year......the fact is that Bruce performed better in his first 20 games than Tocchet. All this gushing about Tocchet and the team has sits 17th in P% since his arrival. Before labelling Tocchet as a better or far better coach than a guy whose results have shown him to be superior at this level of coaching, let's see how he performs once the new coach sparkle has worn off and the team is playing with expectation.

 

[racerjoe]

I heard the same things about Bruce last year......the fact is that Bruce performed better in his first 20 games than Tocchet. All this gushing about Tocchet and the team has sits 17th in P% since his arrival. Before labelling Tocchet as a better or far better coach than a guy whose results have shown him to be superior at this level of coaching, let's see how he performs once the new coach sparkle has worn off and the team is playing with expectation.

I am not saying Tocchet is better, I haven't watched enough of his games. However comparing them when one was coaching the Capitals, and the other the Coyotes, seems a bit disingenuous.

 

[canuckking1]

I am not saying Tocchet is better, I haven't watched enough of his games. However comparing them when one was coaching the Capitals, and the other the Coyotes, seems a bit disingenuous.

Bruce has gone to 3 different non playoff teams at the time (Caps/Ducks/Wild) and made them playoff teams. He has a proven track record. Even in Tampa Tocchet wasn’t a success in fact when they canned him they went from missing the playoffs to withing one game of the Stanley cup final. Tocchet needs to prove he’s a good coach something Bruce has already done throughout his career.

 

[racerjoe]

Bruce has gone to 3 different non playoff teams at the time (Caps/Ducks/Wild) and made them playoff teams. He has a proven track record. Even in Tampa Tocchet wasn’t a success in fact when they canned him they went from missing the playoffs to withing one game of the Stanley cup final. Tocchet needs to prove he’s a good coach something Bruce has already done throughout his career.

Do you think Caps is a fair comparable? Or the Ducks... both teams that were and should have been playoff favourites? I am not trying to take away from Bruce, but the teams he has had the chance to coach have been much better.

That Tampa team wasn't that great. Stamkos was there, but in his Rookie year, and the next year was Hedman's Rookie year. They really were not that great yet.

I will repeat I am not trying to take away from Bruce, his time here or before. I just don't think comparing a coach who has had the chance to coach a two really good teams should be compared by a record vs a coach who has coached bad teams before this.

I honestly don't know what to think of Tocchet as a coach. I never really watched Yotes games. All I have to go by is this way too small sample size with the Canucks, but looking at their records is really not a fare way.

 

[AD16]

This is literally a copy and paste from 80% of the Canucks fanbase.

Might as well get ChatGPT to start making posts. Zero original thoughts these days…

Good to know the majority of the fan base realizes how terrible this franchise has been and will continue to be if they keep operating the way are.

Ww We’re never going to get the top odds in the lottery. You don’t think there’s another 12 teams out there who would love to get Bedard? It’s not like we’re the only ones who’d want him.

Don’t need to draft Bedard to get a franchise level player in this draft. That’s the point. It’s a deep draft with a top 5 that would rival most top 5s from any prior draft year.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Maybe he does rebound. Many do not rebound. Some do, but many do not. He has certainly been hampered by injury, but multiple injuries season over season is not a reason to be optimistic for the future. The idea that personal issues have affected his play is reasonable and understandable. If that is a significant factor then that is a serious problem that has no timeline for resolution. I know that some people carry their grief for decades, not everyone, but some do.
He get points because of his linemates. He gets points because he's on a PP that would be just as effective without him. He can't retrieve the puck, he consistently loses board battles. That is what I see. I also see glimmers of hope that maybe he is improving, but I'm a long way from being a believer. Don't get me wrong, I want this guy to succeed, I just don't like the majority of what I see.

Boeser is obviously far less of a problem than OEL or Myers. The most optimistic posts on OEL I see hope that he can be better than guys making 1M. Those are the optimistic takes. Myers sucks and the posts reflect that, but nobody really has any hope for improvement beyond potentially becoming a non-liability on the ice. Nobody believes it's even possible for Myers to live up to his price, we're resigned to believing his top end is as a player who doesn't actively hurt the team. I don't think I've seen any posts defending either player or suggesting they are more than what we're currently looking at. Brock on the other hand is seen as either: a worthy reclamation, a guy who needs new scenery or a turd with enough leftover shine that we don't have to pay too much to jettison.
Brock doesn't get more flack, people just think that of all our bad contracts he is the most moveable. It's more painful when he continues to disappoint because there isn't the complete hopeless apathy that OEL and Myers have surrounding them.

Brock is a top six forward no doubt because he can't play in the bottom six. He has regressed and it's very concerning. There are concerns about his conditioning. Conditioning is a function of work-ethic and if work-ethic is a problem then that is doubly concerning. It's easy to say that conditioning can be fixed because it can be fixed. All you need is work-ethic, but if you don't have that then what? I can totally see a scenario where the franchise focus on demanding a higher standard gets teamwide buyin and Brock sees the light. I just need to see it first.


I re-watched it to make sure I saw what I saw. Brock skates up the ice uncontested at an unremarkable pace and does a button hook to buy time. The only way to screw it up is to either fall down or botch the pass. It's an unremarkable play made remarkable because he did botch the pass but Miller recovered. He didn't draw 2 defenders. There was the receiving d-man and the equally sluggish backchecker who split off to stand in front of the net. Brock had all the time in the world to put a pass on the tape and if the recipient of that pass had not been an elite scorer it would have been a broken play.
My original point stands that this play illustrates Brock's reliance on others to produce.



Ironically I largely agree with your sentiment that many posters here are reflexively critical of anything that isn't trading away everything and tanking for the draft. I think that there are other ways to build a team besides 1st overall picks. Good pro-scouting, a focus on player development, NCAA free agents are all ignored by the tank crowd. We literally added a likely 40 goal scorer for nothing but it's largely irrelevant because we didn't draft him. The tankists believe that players win championships not teams. I believe you need to be serious about winning to attract winners to your organization. It's a top down total philosophy that is uncompromising.
Pittsburgh got lucky. It wasn't some brilliant strategy, they were on the verge of folding as a franchise so they sucked and fluked into generational talents. After ownership stabilized they managed to build a team around those players.
Chicago had terrible ownership so they sucked. If you suck you get high picks. Old man Wirtz or however you spell it died and the new leadership built a team around the fortunate picks.
Edmonton had terrible ownership so they sucked. They got lucky and drafted 1st overall repeatedly but the shitty ownership persisted. They have nothing to show for it. They drafted 2 of the best players in the world but they are still looking for players instead of a team.
I could go on but I'm getting tired. The point is that if you can't support the players you have whether you drafted them, signed them as FA or traded for them then you're going to be dissapointed.

Well written, logical and rational, it would be nice if the poster you responded to was capable of that......

 

[Canucks LB]

Way better coaching? lmao, Bruce has produced far better results than Tocchet ever has.

Coaching style matters, Bruce is a great guy, Great coach, but in this era?
Playing run and gun with that defense was a tirefire waiting to happen, and it did

 

[canuckking1]

Coaching style matters, Bruce is a great guy, Great coach, but in this era?
Playing run and gun with that defense was a tirefire waiting to happen, and it did

Bruce coached the Wild team to some of the best defensive results in the league. He’s quite capable of coaching good defensive teams. Again how did Bruce look in his first 20 games with the new coach bump? His record was better than Tocchet’s factor in that Tocchet has come in when the Canucks have an easy schedule and it’s no surprise he looks good. Let’s see how he looks when they actually play with expectations and the new coach sparkles fade out.

 

[racerjoe]

Bruce coached the Wild team to some of the best defensive results in the league. He’s quite capable of coaching good defensive teams. Again how did Bruce look in his first 20 games with the new coach bump? His record was better than Tocchet’s factor in that Tocchet has come in when the Canucks have an easy schedule and it’s no surprise he looks good. Let’s see how he looks when they actually play with expectations and the new coach sparkles fade out.

Just 100% going off memory, but not great... or at least the stats didn't match the results, and it appeared we leaned heavy on great goaltending.

 

[canuckking1]

Just 100% going off memory, but not great... or at least the stats didn't match the results, and it appeared we leaned heavy on great goaltending.

I don’t think the stats are all that different I’d have to check and it’s now like we aren’t getting good goaltending right now under Tocchet.

 

[MS]

Bruce this year was the worst coaching performance I've ever seen on this team.

His positivity was right place/right time last season but literally from opening night this year he looked totally confused about what he should be doing, the team looked confused and terribly coached on the ice, and the only trick he seemed to have in his playbook was nonsensically juggling his lines after every single game. He should have been fired before the end of October.

 

[racerjoe]

I don’t think the stats are all that different I’d have to check and it’s now like we aren’t getting good goaltending right now under Tocchet.

Look back at articles and game day threads. Demko was flat out winning us games.

Since his return he has played well, no doubt. but he isn't THE REASON we are winning.

 

[andora]

Just 100% going off memory, but not great... or at least the stats didn't match the results, and it appeared we leaned heavy on great goaltending.

Also memory but i think under bruce we were mid pack at high danger chances against but top 5 in high danger save percentage