Post-Game Talk: [GM54] Canucks lose to Red Wings | 1-6 | Dries

[Just A Bit Outside]

The BB bump did not do anyone favours. It’s fine if it was for 10-12 games, but when they went on a roll to the end of the season, it 100% baboozled mgmt.

Just like the bubble.

It was a mirage and neither mgmt group were smart to realize that.

So they basically doubled down.

In the case of going into this season, everyone knew they MIGHT be a playoff team if everything went well.

Forwards seemed deep and could score (and they have).

The goaltending needed to be stellar (saying it has not been is an understatement).

The defense was crap but needed to be “good enough” because of the above two points (it has not).

So while this is worst case scenario right now, it cannot come as much of a surprise.

 

[m9]

It is pretty crazy that half the league is under a 900 save percentage right now.

Obviously our team has been as bad as any but what a shift from just a few years ago. 2017-18 only 3 teams finished under 900.

Not really sure what's changed but I think it's great for the league.

 

[iceburg]

It is pretty crazy that half the league is under a 900 save percentage right now.

Obviously our team has been as bad as any but what a shift from just a few years ago. 2017-18 only 3 teams finished under 900.

Not really sure what's changed but I think it's great for the league.

Someone with a greater interest in analytics could probably answer the question. My guess is that it’s a combination of an increase in high danger chances (younger, more skilled players) and a tightening of rules around obstruction. A lot of light hooks get called today compared to a few years ago.

But, yeah, that is crazy and it is good for the league.

 

[credulous]

i think increased scoring is mostly just down to better tracking of games by (team) analysts. we're at a point now where basically every team is incorporating structured game analysis into their game plans. you see way less shots from the point and way more "bad angle" shots in the current game than you did even a few years ago mostly because tracking games has shown that point shots are mostly a waste of possession and "bad angle" shots aren't actually bad

it's like when the nba rockets started playing 4 guards and prioritizing 3 point shots over "easy" inside baskets. it looked reckless and stupid initially but they had numbers to back up what they were doing and now literally every nba team looks to create open 3 point shots at the expense of almost all other offense

 

[Hit the post]

And became undamaged when they moved on.

IMHO, it's what those in the financial markets world would call "a dead cat bounce".

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

9 years later and he was right.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

 

[andyJH]

 

[VanJack]

Kind of amazed by the passive reaction from the seats. Earlier in the season the boos would have reached a crescendo and jerseys would be flying on the ice.

But last night it was almost a silent building. I guess the fans that are left are resigned to watching patheticl hockey the rest of the way. And really don't expect much different from this awful roster.

But I guess 'acceptance' is the final phase of the official grieving process.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Coach never has the hammer

We are in an era of guaranteed contracts, players hold the hammer and tge only ones that don’t are the fringe plugs that live on one year deals. We have plenty of those but fringe players are 4th line guys that won’t move the dial

Tocchet will lose the room snd management will get tired of being reminded of their incompetence

I'd say he has the hammer for this season and next....Eventually, all coaches get tuned out by the players (which doesnt mean they are bad), and get recycled again on another team that needs a fresh voice.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Kind of amazed by the passive reaction from the seats. Earlier in the season the boos would have reached a crescendo and jerseys would be flying on the ice.

But last night it was almost a silent building. I guess the fans that are left are resigned to watching patheticl hockey the rest of the way. And really don't expect much different from this awful roster.

But I guess 'acceptance' is the final phase of the official grieving process.

I think that you're being a tad overdramatic here...Yes, last nights game stunk, but the 5 previous games before that were very watchable (CBJ,NJD,NYR,NYI,DET)...They didnt win them all, but were definitely in all of them.

 

[Zippgunn]

He's got an .878 save % in only 14 games played. You can't blame him for all the goals, but he is obviously doing things wrong out there that have led to his horrendous save %

He's .005 worse than superstar Demko (.883) this year. Martin was .871. So it's not the goalies...
Also (and I hate to play this game) if you take away his two terrible games he is flirting with .900...

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

The BB bump did not do anyone favours. It’s fine if it was for 10-12 games, but when they went on a roll to the end of the season, it 100% baboozled mgmt.

I legitimately think it was more just the team being happy that Benning was gone and feeling like the winds of change were blowing. Which is insane to think that a GM would have such an impact. (This is not meant to be a defense of Green because he was assuredly a bellend.)

But lol. Just lmao.

 

[arttk]

Again your reading comprehension leaves alot yo be desired.

Do you think a “system” is a standard vanilla thing

Honest question, have you played the game at an even remotely competitive level?

Since you don't quite understand what I am saying due to your comprehension issue, let me explain it to you. You saying Tocchet doesn't own a system is like someone saying Kuzmenko is really bad at dunking a puck. Yeah no shit, Tocchet doesn't own a system because that's not a thing just like dunking a puck is not a thing. Sure, it can exist from a technicality perspective but it's essentially nonexistent.

 

[Zippgunn]

And became undamaged when they moved on.

This. Holtby and Nilsson both won the #1 job on their subsequent teams immediately after leaving Vancouver in disgrace...

 

[Sedinery]

I'd say he has the hammer for this season and next....Eventually, all coaches get tuned out by the players (which doesnt mean they are bad), and get recycled again on another team that needs a fresh voice.

My point is there is NO legitimate threat of shipping out guys. Most are guys are lock into term deals at guaranteed money and many with ntc’s

Many can’t be moved because no team would touch their pricing/term

Bottom line is we are stuck with guys like Myers, OEL, Miller, Boeser … unless we find a sucker trade partner but “shipping them put” is not am option

Hammer to the players

 

[Sedinery]

Since you don't quite understand what I am saying due to your comprehension issue, let me explain it to you. You saying Tocchet doesn't own a system is like someone saying Kuzmenko is really bad at dunking a puck. Yeah no shit, Tocchet doesn't own a system because that's not a thing just like dunking a puck is not a thing. Sure, it can exist from a technicality perspective but it's essentially nonexistent.

I can tell you have never played/ i have played on competitive teams under over 10 coaches and no 2 ran the same offensive and defensive system. They are not one size fits all. Each case coaching group has a unique system.

Tocchet has never demonstrated, through results, he runs an effective system.

For your reference there are multiple backcheck, traps, neutral zone counters, zone coverages, breakout, pp, pk, d zone coverages

The setup and permutations are endless. The good coaches make their own version a systems

 

[strattonius]

This is on Clark at least 50% up to maybe 80%.

Both these goalies have demonstrated they can be. 899+ on shitty NHL teams. Even Delia who I didn't have big hopes for. The fact that they are playing below potential as well as your star goalie is a strike against the goalie coaching staff. This is the equivalent of having three Michael Hutchinsons on the team at once...except he kicked all their asses in save % despite being a total seive and completely unreliable.

For goaltending to be this bad, it has to fall on everyone's shoulders. It's not just a case of these being AHL goalies because, again, they have put up good NHL numbers in the past.

Team defence is a SIGNIFICANT factor in this. This team allows lots of tips and fails to defend cross crease. Those are literally the easiest ways to produce goals in the NHL. While I still think our goalies need to make some stops regardless of the circumstances, it's established that goalie stats are closely tied to team defence. I don't think that our poor defence can be dismissed simply because this is the first time in a decade we didn't have a stud goalie making a lot of stops they shouldn't have. We used to speculate what would happen if Demko or Marky would give us average goaltending....well we never got that, this year we have abysmal goaltending. And to me it's a vicious cycle where team defence and bad goaltending are feeding bad results in each other.

As usual it's a confluence of factors. If you want more details on why I think Clark is failing miserably this season, go read the Spencer Martin thread.

I think everyone needs to be accountable so agreed on that front; but the idea that the goalies are only responsible for 20-50% of the blame is just ridiculous.

They are professional athletes and these coaches remind them of fundamentals, positioning, etc. It's not like they are a peewee just learning the position. End of the day they have to make the save, not a f***ing goalie coach.

Delia and Martin are just not NHL caliber goalies. With added responsibility and exposure the holes on their game get exposed in the NHL. This isn't about Clark trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

[Gurn]

Delia and Martin maybe back up goalies at the NHL level, good for 10-15 games, spread out over the season; but neither are starting goalies.

 

[VanJack]

I think that you're being a tad overdramatic here...Yes, last nights game stunk, but the 5 previous games before that were very watchable (CBJ,NJD,NYR,NYI,DET)...They didnt win them all, but were definitely in all of them.

So that's where we're at right now?......play well and lose three of the last five games, and you get a mulligan for that pitiful performance last night?

If a team wants to lay down and get rid of a turd, at least do it on the road. Those people last night had every right to raise the roof with chorus of boos and jeers. Even the broadcast crew was a little amazed that the crowd was silent and passive.

Shorthouse and Garrett were the ones who speculated that possibly the fans were just resigned to watching a bad hockey team and getting the season over with.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Delia and Martin maybe back up goalies at the NHL level, good for 10-15 games, spread out over the season; but neither are starting goalies.

They're not even that great of back up goalies this season...The lowest baseline for an NHL goalie is the ability to make saves, that keep your team in the game...Delia has done it to an extent..He can let in 4 goals, and then shut the door with the game on the line.

Martin has just been ventilated, night in, night out.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

So that's where we're at right now?......play well and lose three of the last five games, and you get a mulligan for that pitiful performance last night?

If a team wants to lay down and get rid of a turd, at least do it on the road. Those people last night had every right to raise the roof with chorus of boos and jeers. Even the broadcast crew was a little amazed that the crowd was silent and passive.

Shorthouse and Garrett were the ones who speculated that possibly the fans were just resigned to watching a bad hockey team and getting the season over with.

Agreed, that its inexcusable to not show up for a home game (thats been the story all season hasn't it..?..)...Its garbage time, and since RT has taken over, they've entertained me more than not...(even the ones they lost).

Getting worked up over the results from here on in, is a waste of energy.IMO..Its out of our hands .

Even though, its in the best interest in the organization to lose as many as possible this season.

 

[Grantham]

Thanks again to @MS and @orcatown for the awesome spot on analysis. Totally agree with you both on JT playing really well lately both ways, and this game it was criminal he had no points for the chances he created.

Hard to find positives right? Well, here are two I took away:-

1) Losses are important right now in a lost season with a crazy good draft. This could be a defining draft for this franchise. We're looking to be almost a lock for a top 10 pick, and NYI is in the 12th range still.

2) I thought I would never see the day, but Stillman! Kid is thriving lately. He has been always a really good skater, but now it seems his brain and ice awareness is catching up. Can he rise out of the fire and turn into a solid defenseman for us? Looks like he is really trending up. I actually am releived when he is on the ice now, not terrified like earlier in the season. Was our second best D after Hughes tonight. We might have something here folks!

 

[TruGr1t]

It actually also gives them some decent cap room the first couple of years which is where the current crunch lies. The 4.9 MM years will hopefully come right when the cap starts to move significantly. If they can convince ownership to pony up the $20 mil I think they have to do it.

The exact type of short-term thinking that this organization loves. They should absolutely not be sacrificing future cap flexibility for marginal cap space to try to tinker with this roster over the next two seasons. If you’re buying out OEL you shouldn’t even start thinking about it until after next season.

This team is doing jack squat over the period where buying out OEL even helps, and then are carrying his ass around cap-wise when they actually might have a chance at being good.

 

[tantalum]

The exact type of short-term thinking that this organization loves. They should absolutely not be sacrificing future cap flexibility for marginal cap space to try to tinker with this roster over the next two seasons. If you’re buying out OEL you shouldn’t even start thinking about it until after next season.

This team is doing jack squat over the period where buying out OEL even helps, and then are carrying his ass around cap-wise when they actually might have a chance at being good.

I disagree that it’s short term thinking. But that’s fine. I think the cap space is more valuable early and the two years of major penalties is live able at the time they come given expected cap increases. We talk about the importance of cap flexibility especially early in this and that is the move that gives them that flexibility. In addition the buy out next year has similar dead cap for those same two high years. You simply cut 2 years off the end of what is fairly minimal cap hit at that point given cap increases.

It no longer makes sense to actually play OEL, you can’t get rid of him without losing major assets, and you can’t bury him in the minors with a min wage replacement because of the NMC. It makes more sense to me to get rid of the boat anchor now as the pain is the same at the same times based on this year buyout or next. Or we can simply wish for a LTIR retirement.