Post-Game Talk: [GM18] Canucks lose 4-3 to the Kracken

[sting101]

I would have traded him at is highest value maybe a sign and trade last season as it would have created a spot for your first point in your post above.

Like I said up thread he does well when the team is going well but basically disappears when it isn't, just not my type of player.

You think teams would have taken a single season playing along side of Pettersson with his sh% and though yes lets trade a 1st plus for a RFA who might just walk and hasn't even played a single playoff game?

Kuzmenko is worth more to us than on the market.

Who is your kind of player you would have gone after?

 

[theguardianII]

A few mistakes from Juulsen and Myers, and a high stick goal that was called good. There are things to learn from this, mostly get opposing players away from the crease, limit Myers and find an improvement over Juulsen. Oh, and score more then the other guys.

Miller and Hughes look mostly all right. Demko didn't let anything egregious in. Seattle definitely outworked the Canucks. Pettersson is probably hurt, Kuzmenko is definitely worse then he is letting on, and Mikheyev doesn't have the push to carry a top six line by himself. The bottom six was mostly alright, but seemed to get more then its share of ice time 5 on 5.

I'm not thrilled with this game, but what ever, I hope Tocchet can make sure it's a blip due to fatigue or whatever.


Bear and Kessel are imminent. Inevitable even.

Take away Myers and the score is 4 - 1 Seattle.

Hronek played 29+ minutes averaging most in his career.

I think the team has been playing at playoff intensity since the start of the season. They have created the cushion needed for a playoff spot run. But this intensity might be hard to maintain.

Really good teams and Vancouver fans have seen some really good ones, can win very ugly games through belief, what the media calls swagger. But IMO this group is fragile yet.

Seattle and Calgary, the last two games are starting to see some doubt creeping into the game.

It is only two games and they are still the cock of the walk in the league with 3 top scorers but then that makes it easier for other teams to target.

Pettersson looks like he is trying to redefine his game into a more robust player. Maybe trying to be Forsberg 2.0. The effort is there but his "style" is not what it was. He used to charge the net while carrying the puck and take a shot. Now he seems to ease up and look for a team mate. Gretzky was good at finding the trailers but he was much deeper in the offensive zone. E,P to me, just isn't taking the same types of shots and his "game" looks slower.

For years I have stated that Hughes plays like a rover and now that is how he is being described by media. He will keep getting high level scoring chances because he isn't playing the conventional positional hockey.

Is Tocchet having an effect on Kuzmenko? You bet he is, Tocchet has "His Type" of player in mind and he is trying to carve the one's on the team into his ideal.

Just another game but maybe coming back down to earth.

As far as a tough schedule goes, the fans here have forgotten about playoff schedules, much harder than now.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i think what we’ve seen since the toronto game is teams have figured out that you can stop us by clogging up the middle and keep us to the outside

hopefully we figure out a way to break through that

 

[wetcoast]

You think teams would have taken a single season playing along side of Pettersson with his sh% and though yes lets trade a 1st plus for a RFA who might just walk and hasn't even played a single playoff game?

There is the rub as I don't know but I also don't know if the Canucks even pursued this route.

Also Covid and the salary cap outcomes also made it hard for many teams so there is that.

I guess I'm hoping for a perfect world scenario.

Kuzmenko is worth more to us than on the market.

Sure probably but he might also take a spot that one of our prospects could have earned but with his contract it would never happen.

Who is your kind of player you would have gone after?

I don't like the way the Canucks were handled the last 5 years sure we have 3 great players but we should have done a rebuild earlier.

It's not a specific player but guys like Kuz and Boeser aren't ones I want to build my team around.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Just what I thought, myers had a good game, just made one bad mistake

I’m kind of impressed with how these graphs line up with the eye test as well.

 

[Cogburn]

Take away Myers and the score is 4 - 1 Seattle.

Hronek played 29+ minutes averaging most in his career.

I think the team has been playing at playoff intensity since the start of the season. They have created the cushion needed for a playoff spot run. But this intensity might be hard to maintain.

Really good teams and Vancouver fans have seen some really good ones, can win very ugly games through belief, what the media calls swagger. But IMO this group is fragile yet.

Seattle and Calgary, the last two games are starting to see some doubt creeping into the game.

It is only two games and they are still the cock of the walk in the league with 3 top scorers but then that makes it easier for other teams to target.

Pettersson looks like he is trying to redefine his game into a more robust player. Maybe trying to be Forsberg 2.0. The effort is there but his "style" is not what it was. He used to charge the net while carrying the puck and take a shot. Now he seems to ease up and look for a team mate. Gretzky was good at finding the trailers but he was much deeper in the offensive zone. E,P to me, just isn't taking the same types of shots and his "game" looks slower.

For years I have stated that Hughes plays like a rover and now that is how he is being described by media. He will keep getting high level scoring chances because he isn't playing the conventional positional hockey.

Is Tocchet having an effect on Kuzmenko? You bet he is, Tocchet has "His Type" of player in mind and he is trying to carve the one's on the team into his ideal.

Just another game but maybe coming back down to earth.

As far as a tough schedule goes, the fans here have forgotten about playoff schedules, much harder than now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not running Myers down, but he did have a mistake that lead to....I want to say the first goal, due to a bad read. Hronek had a lot of good plays and I'd say earned that ice time, but our alternatives were Myers and Juulsen, one of whom can still contribute playing reduced minutes and one who looks utterly overwhelmed every play.

I'm not ready to jump on the tank bandwagon, I agree that the pace would be hard, if not impossible, to keep all season. Calgary and Seattle had something to prove, and we just got back from a long road trip, I'm sure this is a blip.

Pettersson needs to get back to his game. Whether it is injuries, coaching in his ear, or what ever. Ditto Kuzmenko, but he's had a longer stint this year as not playing "his" game. If coaching is hampering their offensive input for the greater good, alright, I'd rather win with lower point totals then lose with all of our top six being top 10 scorers.

But yeah, it's just a bad couple games, we have some bruising and tiredness, but we had a little fight to end this game, and came very close to tying it. One better read on the goals, or one high stick called, and we'd have gotten a point. On to the Sharks.

 

[bossram]

One of the poorer, if not worst defensive efforts we've seen from Hughes-Hronek this season.

Canucks' play has been slipping of late. Tocchet had them firing hard from the start of the season but it's tough to sustain. But it's just the mental/casual mistakes that did them in tonight. Hopefully Tocchet will correct that.

 

[theguardianII]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not running Myers down, but he did have a mistake that lead to....I want to say the first goal, due to a bad read. Hronek had a lot of good plays and I'd say earned that ice time, but our alternatives were Myers and Juulsen, one of whom can still contribute playing reduced minutes and one who looks utterly overwhelmed every play.

I'm not ready to jump on the tank bandwagon, I agree that the pace would be hard, if not impossible, to keep all season. Calgary and Seattle had something to prove, and we just got back from a long road trip, I'm sure this is a blip.

Pettersson needs to get back to his game. Whether it is injuries, coaching in his ear, or what ever. Ditto Kuzmenko, but he's had a longer stint this year as not playing "his" game. If coaching is hampering their offensive input for the greater good, alright, I'd rather win with lower point totals then lose with all of our top six being top 10 scorers.

But yeah, it's just a bad couple games, we have some bruising and tiredness, but we had a little fight to end this game, and came very close to tying it. One better read on the goals, or one high stick called, and we'd have gotten a point. On to the Sharks.

That is the thing with Myers, he is only being paid 1 million this year, that is a pretty good result for the money spent this year.

The Hronek comment also was about how sustainable, durable he will be.

With a few players playing high minutes the dangers of burnout and injury increase with the downfall if they aren't there.

The "What If?" game. What if Hronek, Hughes, Miller, Pettersson or Demko get hurt?
The team could maybe weather one of those injuries but at what cost? Increasing ice time for the rest? EP, JTM, QH, FH are already at over 20 min/gm, what I would think is unsustainable minutes per game for a season, especially out of Vancouver with all the plane travel.

IMO the team is already showing some signs of playing with the pedal to the metal already and maybe Tocchet see's that too with his comments about learning to play tired, seeing who was going and his blending lines. He has been quite reserved in any praise, if anything he has been very transparent about playing when tired.

I still think the team has done enough to make the playoffs but the season is long and top teams in November, especially non playoff teams, have fallen out by December 7th, my personal date for 90% surety of a playoff spot.

The team has been incredibly lucky so far this year with percentages all in their favour.

 

[Kryten]

That is the thing with Myers, he is only being paid 1 million this year, that is a pretty good result for the money spent this year.

The Hronek comment also was about how sustainable, durable he will be.

With a few players playing high minutes the dangers of burnout and injury increase with the downfall if they aren't there.

The "What If?" game. What if Hronek, Hughes, Miller, Pettersson or Demko get hurt?
The team could maybe weather one of those injuries but at what cost? Increasing ice time for the rest? EP, JTM, QH, FH are already at over 20 min/gm, what I would think is unsustainable minutes per game for a season, especially out of Vancouver with all the plane travel.

IMO the team is already showing some signs of playing with the pedal to the metal already and maybe Tocchet see's that too with his comments about learning to play tired, seeing who was going and his blending lines. He has been quite reserved in any praise, if anything he has been very transparent about playing when tired.

I still think the team has done enough to make the playoffs but the season is long and top teams in November, especially non playoff teams, have fallen out by December 7th, my personal date for 90% surety of a playoff spot.

The team has been incredibly lucky so far this year with percentages all in their favour.

Myers is being paid 6m this year. The fact that he got 5m of as a bonus in september doesnt change that

 

[sting101]

There is the rub as I don't know but I also don't know if the Canucks even pursued this route.

Also Covid and the salary cap outcomes also made it hard for many teams so there is that.

I guess I'm hoping for a perfect world scenario.


Sure probably but he might also take a spot that one of our prospects could have earned but with his contract it would never happen.



I don't like the way the Canucks were handled the last 5 years sure we have 3 great players but we should have done a rebuild earlier.

It's not a specific player but guys like Kuz and Boeser aren't ones I want to build my team around.

We have Miller and Pettersson to build the forward corps around?

There is no prospect that is even close to taking his role currently and instead of 2 pairs with Miller-Boeser and Pettersson-Kuzmenko driving the top6 scoring your asking someone to do something that will produce worse results than Kuzmenko and frustrate one of your star C's.

That is not how you improve your team.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Nucks fans: not enough effort, missed assignments, lack of depth (still), too much perimeter play, myers juulsen etc..


Also canucks fans: omg sign ethan bear asap!¡

 

[sting101]

Nucks fans: not enough effort, missed assignments, lack of depth (still), too much perimeter play, myers juulsen etc..


Also canucks fans: omg sign ethan bear asap!¡

Ethan Bear is a substantial upgrade on Juulsen and Friedman do you disagree?

And yes that is all pretty much true

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Nucks fans: not enough effort, missed assignments, lack of depth (still), too much perimeter play, myers juulsen etc..


Also canucks fans: omg sign ethan bear asap!¡

He'd be a solid addition right about now.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Lol they lose 2 games in a row after a hot start and Canucks HF goes crazy. What else is new

Or more sane.

Depends on what your view of reality is.

 

[m9]

Bear is like a #6 and would rather they went elsewhere.. but they've boxed themselves in with such limited cap space. At least he can make outlet passes which might help our ES scoring.

Hopefully they don't give him term though. He wasn't very good last year and who knows how he'll look off a bad injury.

 

[sting101]

With the Soucy contract we shouldn't be looking at signing anyone beyond 1 year that doesn't fix the top3D vacancy.

 

[VanJack]

Like a lot of NHL teams, even the good ones, they're only as good as the energy level they can muster on any given night.

Let's face it, the last few games and even the OT win over the Islanders, their energy level has dipped. This is inevitable over a long 82-game schedule, but Tocchet was right when he said the Canucks still have to 'learn how to play tired'. But they're not there yet.

They key of course is managing your losses.....Canucks are 2-3 in their last five games. They need to s top the bleeding this week.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Bear is like a #6 and would rather they went elsewhere.. but they've boxed themselves in with such limited cap space. At least he can make outlet passes which might help our ES scoring.

Hopefully they don't give him term though. He wasn't very good last year and who knows how he'll look off a bad injury.

He’s better than a #6…(a 4-5)..You don’t have to give up assets to acquire him..(there’s mutual interest from the team and player).

Canucks Under the Microscope: Ethan Bear needs a contract

Ethan Bear isn't a perfect defenceman, but he's better than most of what the Vancouver Canucks have. Read more.

theprovince.com

 

[quat]

I think there's enough depth at the top of the lineup (relatively speaking), but certainly on defense there's problems.

When the D struggles, as others have mentioned, the whole team process or approach tends to fall apart. That weakens the effectiveness of your forwards.
Its like most prognosticated, if things go right for the Canucks they should make the playoffs. Everything went right for a string of games and now some of the converse is happening.

The idea of the team being cup contenders with another player ror two is incredibly optimistic given the lack of depth, and that's going to be an issue for the club over the next few years. You can't improve the team much without surrendering picks at a minimum, and those wanting to trade youth in the pipeline have to know the team will pay dearly for it when there's injuries. You end up bringing up your Hirose's and your Karlsson's (Sp) instead of players that at least have the chance to positively impact the team.

I think it's always the issue with clubs that build around a core through free agency because their drafting or development sucks, or they're saddles with a plethora of terrible long term contracts. I think we all are aware the Canucks are working under an umbrella of all these challenges.

Everyone has said, everything has got to go their way, and we're seeing the significance of just losing one defender to injury and another couple of forwards playing through something.

Still, all this is a million times more engaging than what we've laboured watching for the past eight years.

 

[DimitriL07]

Losing happens, I’m not to fussed with the loss. We all knew we weren’t as good as the record indicated but certainly good enough for a playoff birth. I’m just happy we’re slowly building up again after the mess we’ve had for years. It’s fun to watch games, and who knows a few more pieces along the way this season and I genuinely think we can make some noise come playoff time

 

[Hansen]

I'm just watching the game now in the third and frankly this isnt a bad loss. We could hvae won this game, but there were stretches where we didnt play well.

The PP had some great movement, I wish they would open up the shooting gallery a bit more if its going to be run so high. It probably goes against the code a bit but I wish guys would just shoot into the block. Teams know what we're doing and cover the lanes, but dont make it easy for them. You have to punish the block a bit and keep them nervous.

 

[VanJack]

Five on five, this team really isn't generating much.....but a bigger concern than the lack of scoring, is zone time. Spending way too much time in their own zone.

Seattle is a quick team that get on you early on the forecheck, and for the most part the Canucks just couldn't handle it. And I would rate Demko's night as 'average'. He did make some 10-bell saves, but they need more from him in the third period.

 

[mossey3535]

Bear MIGHT make a difference...by the time we get to February if the rumours are true that we would sign him in late December.

We need to figure out our shit before then with what we have, and then he'll just be depth at that point. Which is what he actually is anyways.

If this team actually got back to playing team defence and regains discipline and cohesion, we'll be back to looking like we did in the middle of this last good run this season.

Like this is still a team that has one uber pair with a swiss army knife (cole) behind them and other than that a shit ton of question marks. Losing Soucy didn't change that much as he was out the early part of the season.

Real issue is that they are not playing Tocchet hockey lately as a whole.

 

[mossey3535]

I was at the game tonight, sorry everyone.

I feel you, I was at the Calgary game.

Losing happens, I’m not to fussed with the loss. We all knew we weren’t as good as the record indicated but certainly good enough for a playoff birth. I’m just happy we’re slowly building up again after the mess we’ve had for years. It’s fun to watch games, and who knows a few more pieces along the way this season and I genuinely think we can make some noise come playoff team.

True, but to get into and make noise in the playoffs we have to build those habits now.

 

[ChuckFanForever]

Seems even the loss of a regular #6 D-man is enough to throw the chemistry off...

Hughes & Hronek were nearly invincible earlier but I believe they got their -1's last night on shifts where they weren't paired with each other (Hronek on the Eberle high-stick goal, and Hughes when he tried to panic clear the zone from the D zone but got picked off).