Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part VIII

[coladin]

Nice deflection. Why would a team trade their 1st RD pick if they didn't believe they were going to push in the playoffs?

They were an OT goal away for competing for the Cup and as I stated before I believe they would have beaten the Predators as they had some serious juju going on.

When the clock hit midnight they turned into a pumpkin again and the following season was destined to be disappointing.

After 20 games we were already -3 goal differential while also going +11 in 2 games against the Oilers and Flames in games 4 & 5 which was clearly an outlier. By the mid way mark of the season we were a staggering -33.

The fall waa foreseeable and swift.

Not a deflection. Maybe Dorion thought they were a contender. But I am not Pierre Dorion. My expectations were that the trade should have solidifed that this will indeed be a playoff team.

The clock certainly did hit midnight. But not Novemeber 6, 2017. Sure they were going through a rough patch, not unusual for teams that went almost all the way. But they were still ina lot of games and finding a way to get points. Whose to say they would not have turned it around? I definitely didn't foresee an absolute meltdown.

If you saw it at the time of the Duchene trade good for you Nostradamus

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It doesn't have to be a hate it or love it black and white thing.

I see the reasoning, but I still would not have pulled the trigger if the decision had been up to me. Based on factors like the cost paid, the state of the team and the identifying of other needs especially defense. Adding the benefit of hindsight, I just can't imagine looking at this deal like it was a good decision.

It was typical of the Murray/Dorion era to me. An upgrade while still having too many lineup issues due to budget, like having to settle for Oduya that year and going right back to not having a good top 4 like so many years before.

The team did not have a great summer of personnel insulation, so it's always irked me that it was "the core is broken" even though it just looked like they were undermanned as the team had been up and down on for many years. Everyone was to blame. Management had a poor summer. Coach used up his grace. MVP superstar down and struggles after surgery. Anderson/Condon turning in to pumpkins that can't stop a puck. Ceci and Phaneuf losing all effectiveness being thrust up again. Thin up front. Just so many different things going on there.

 

[HSF]

I think people also need to realize that me as fan can sit here and say Duchene was a good move. At the same time if it worked out as poorly as it did then absolutely management should be held accountable for it not working out. It's their job to be evaluated on the state of the team under their watch just like any one else in a similar position

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think people also need to realize that me as fan can sit here and say Duchene was a good move. At the same time if it worked out as poorly as it did then absolutely management should be held accountable for it not working out. It's their job to be evaluated on the state of the team under their watch just like any one else in a similar position

Very much so. Their job is to try to predict outcomes both for the team and individual players and to properly assess their job on that you have to use hindsight.

I would also assume that most here were a bit wide eyed assuming it was a lock a bunch of the core guys would get re-signed. The whole rebuild sort of came out of nowhere, at least for me it did.

 

[Sweatred]

uh? The Sens decided to rebuild. Once Mark Stone was ready to leave I doubt Duchene was going to stay here for a rebuild

Ottawa's fault was trading for Duchene then deciding 3 months later that they wanted to rebuild. I can see very legit reason why he was not going to sign here the whole landscape of the team changed

There have been lots of comments recently that MD always wanted to go to a Nashville - he was never staying here. He played his way to UFA.

 

[HSF]

There have been lots of comments recently that MD always wanted to go to a Nashville - he was never staying here. He played his way to UFA.

Uh we don't know that to be true. It's more likely they he didnt want to play on yet another rebuilding team. The whole allure of coming here and he even said as much is that he wanted to play playoff games

 

[Sweatred]

Uh we don't know that to be true. It's more likely they he didnt want to play on yet another rebuilding team. The whole allure of coming here and he even said as much is that he wanted to play playoff games

Your not going to get factual proof. you get players who know him commenting… Ya he said everything he was supposed to.. he didn’t extend. Same with stone. Actions matter, words don’t.

 

[HSF]

Your not going to get that - you ge t players who know him commenting… Ya he said everything he was supposed to.. he didn’t extend. Same with stone. Actions matter, words don’t.

Duchene didn't extend cause we were rebuilding. He wants to play playoff games. He made that clear when he arrived

 

[Sweatred]

Duchene didn't extend cause we were rebuilding. He wants to play playoff games. He made that clear when he arrived

I’m not that Gullible

 

[Crosside]

Dorion: 7th overall pick could be in play for an impact player

AJ and Brad are joined by Ottawa Senators general manager Pierre Dorion to talk about the start of the off season, the playoffs, what the Sens would like to add before the next season and they go through the draft meeting process.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Senator Stanley]

The Duchene trade may be peak Pierre Dorion incompetence. He made a significant win-now trade in November and then by February of that same season had decided to start a rebuild.

 

[Hale The Villain]

The Duchene trade may be peak Pierre Dorion incompetence. He made a significant win-now trade in November and then by February of that same season had decided to start a rebuild.

Misjudging the quality of your own team to the point where you trade your 1st round pick and immediately finish 2nd last and then last in the league in consecutive years is legendary incompetence.

It's almost impossible to screw up bigger than that.

 

[Sweatred]

The Duchene trade may be peak Pierre Dorion incompetence. He made a significant win-now trade in November and then by February of that same season had decided to start a rebuild.

Well… like many here I think he thought there was some loyalty amongst the players - Dorion probably realized every player was leaving as soon as they could for $$ and Sun and blew it up. Lesson learned. Don’t do it again.

 

[OgieO]

Thinking back to that Duchene trade... Nashville gave up Girard. Kamenev and a 2nd and received Turris.

That would have been a home run trade if PD had just made that deal and stopped there.

 

[swiftwin]

He made a significant win-now trade in November and then by February of that same season had decided to start a rebuild.

The February rebuild was not a Dorion decision. It was a Melnyk decision.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

The February rebuild was not a Dorion decision. It was a Melnyk decision.

On the 8th day, god made Erik Karlsson. On the 9th day, Dorion made a deal with the devil.

 

[swiftwin]

On the 8th day, god made Erik Karlsson. On the 9th day, Dorion made a deal with the devil.

Yeah, because his job depended on it. We've been over this before...

November 2017: We trade for Duchene
December 2017: Melnyk starts losing his shit and makes stupid comments about possibly staying in Kanata arena or moving the team out of Ottawa at the outdoor centennial game
January 2018: There are key negotiations and a tentative deal where Melnyk has to pony up a ton of money for the new arena (which we found out later, he didn't have). Even the NCC CEO called the situation "challenging"
February 2018: Melnyk calls Dorion over for a week long meeting/summit in Barbados. Dorion walks away with a 3 year extension, and the rebuild is kicked off

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out what happened. In January, Melnyk's plan to get the city to pay for part of the arena fell through, and he had to pony up the cash. That, combined with a poorly performing team, along with many pending UFAs, led Melnyk to want to blow it all up.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yeah, because his job depended on it. We've been over this before...

November 2017: We trade for Duchene
December 2017: Melnyk starts losing his shit and makes stupid comments about possibly staying in Kanata arena or moving the team out of Ottawa at the outdoor centennial game
January 2018: There are key negotiations and a tentative deal where Melnyk has to pony up a ton of money for the new arena (which we found out later, he didn't have). Even the NCC CEO called the situation "challenging"
February 2018: Melnyk calls Dorion over for a week long meeting/summit in Barbados. Dorion walks away with a 3 year extension, and the rebuild is kicked off

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out what happened. In January, Melnyk's plan to get the city to pay for part of the arena fell through, and he had to pony up the cash. That, combined with a poorly performing team, along with many pending UFAs, led Melnyk to want to blow it all up.

Slow down, it was a joke

 

[swiftwin]

Misjudging the quality of your own team to the point where you trade your 1st round pick and immediately finish 2nd last and then last in the league in consecutive years is legendary incompetence.

It's almost impossible to screw up bigger than that.

Narrator: Yet it was possible. Atleast the pick we sent was lottery protected. The pick we got from San Jose was lottery boosted (as in we got the better of their two picks between 2019 and 2020).

 

[Ice-Tray]

Anyone else have a strong feeling of dread hearing PD looking to acquire a top forward and D? I give him a 10% chance of not making a move that pushes us backwards. Derick Brassard & Matt Duchene trades all over again.

Brassard was a win-now trade that played out just fine right up to us trading him. He was well felt to be the better player at the time, and a known playoff warrior, which is what win-now teams need. We wouldn’t make that trade today because we aren’t in the same situation in terms of our competitive window.

I do not want to see this type of trade either.

Duchene was a slam dunk trade that I would do again in a heart beat. A clear cut number one centre for a declining Turris and. Protected first? That was so much less than what an injured Eichel returned, and Duchene lives up to his billing and then some. People often group the trade and the team collapse together given the timing, when the collapse behind the scenes had little to do with Dooosh.

I would love to see this type of trade. That’s like next year’s protected first, and Brown level asset swap.

 

[PlayOn]

Duchene didn't extend cause we were rebuilding. He wants to play playoff games. He made that clear when he arrived

Ryan and Methot actually talked about this on the podcast. They pretty much flat out said he always wanted to go to Nashville, I think Ryan joked how Ottawa was his pit stop or something to that effect.

 

[StoicSensFan]

Ryan and Methot actually talked about this on the podcast. They pretty much flat out said he always wanted to go to Nashville, I think Ryan joked how Ottawa was his pit stop or something to that effect.

I guess that makes Columbus a fever dream.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

The February rebuild was not a Dorion decision. It was a Melnyk decision.

Where do you get that info?

My recollection is that it was reported Dorion and Melnyk met at Melnyk’s residence in Barbados, and that Dorion sold Melnyk on a plan to do a rebuild.

If there is an input to that process that you would attribute solely to Melnyk, it would be the decision to not resign Karlsson. And once that decision was thrust upon Dorion, pretty understandable and shrewd that Dorion would say the best path forward is a rebuild.

 

[Big Muddy]

Zibanejad was a move to save money ultimately as he was going to get paid on his next contract. Same old, same old.

 

[JungleBeat]

Zibanejad was a move to save money ultimately as he was going to get paid on his next contract. Same old, same old.

Dorion legitimately thought Brassard was a better player and followed Boucher's idea the we needed more left handed shots. Melnyk and his cheapness aren't to blame for that idiotic trade.