Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part 2

[GCK]

Had Murray let one in yet ?

 

[TheDebater]

Cannot help but think that Dorion basically shot himself in the foot this off-season. He literally had already brought in all the peices necessary to allow this team to be relatively competitive this season without doing anything, maybe Gudbranson at the most...

His "bad moves" are paying off:

- Zaitsev has been our most consistent defenseman all year, and arguably our second best so far (behind Chabot) . Dorion gets a ton of flack for this trade but it has actually worked out in our favour so far this year.

- Brannstrom is/was ready. Put aside the Stone angle because what's done is done, but we have a very very good young defenseman who will be at worst a very good #4, and potentially even better. He should have been brought in after our 3rd loss.

- Artyom Zub. Dorion actually deserves credit for this signing but it has been overshadowed by his own stupidity this year. Why sign the guy if you had no faith in his abilities? He has been a pleasant surprise and unless he falls off a cliff he will probably play in our top 6 all year.


I was definitely on the fire Dorion train but I have come to the realization that he is his own worst enemy and if this team can turn their season around and at least finish with some respectability, then maybe he gets one more chance.

 

[SensHulk]

- not having the foresight to sign stone to a long term deal before shit hit the fan then proceeding to sign him for one year moments before arbitration handing him all the leverage in negotiations
- gambling away zibanejad for 1.5 years of brassard
- losing Duclair, a 20 goal scorer, for absolutely nothing
- trading away 2nd rounder for a regressing Derek stepan
- underwhelming return for Stone with little to show for it, then proclaiming like a tone deaf buffoon that it’s your proudest day
- adding scrubs like josh brown, Erik gudbranson, braydon Coburn, while capable Defence men like edmundson, Schmidt are available for pennies on the dollar and not retaining boro, demelo who would easily fill some holes
- not to mention, at the helm of 3 consecutive 30th+ finishes, and maybe a 4th one coming.
- not being able to attract any capable free agent to the team

these are all the biggest reasons dorion should be fired.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Tuna99]

Pierre Dorion is in a very weird and unique spot right now as a GM - he had the worst team in hockey and the Ottawa fans have settled into ‘we’re good with this’.

Essentially what has happened in the past 2 weeks is the fans have dictated the lineup to the coach and GM and they caved and it’s worked. The fans for the first time in a very long time in Ottawa feel they have finally done what needed to be done long ago and they got their hands on the steering wheel and they are driving the Senators bus now - and the demands are simple, we’re happy to watch a team lose as long as they do it together and we see light, and the light is the kids.

fans forced Colin White into the lineup and now no one has mentioned his contract. Fans own that now because we demanded he play, no one cares about his salary because we had to fight to get him into the lineup. Same with the kids, they are making mistakes, that’s fine, we can live with it.

there has been this completely assanine rumour around the Senators for the last 15 years that the fans won’t support a rebuild. This comes from a stupid, arrogant and Incorrect place within Ottawa ownership group. Look at what we want, we are demanding losing and demanding rookies and demanding slow growth. How wrong they have been about this and I believe this played into the acquisitions of Stepan and company.

this “Ottawa fans won’t stick with their team” is an idea that doesn’t come from Ottawa, or from any knowledge base. It has always been wrong and I’m glad these last 2 weeks have happened because it completely shatters this stupid rumour and shows how out of touch ownership is with the community, and really hilites why management keeps trying to steer us off the rebuild highway when the fans demand we keep her steady as she goes on cruise control.

management asked for patience, fans were like ‘yes, rebuild this dumpster fire’ and management was like “hang on there’s a shortcut up here’ and have been doing that for 2 years, we finally said enough - and the weirdest part is the fans are asking for the players Dorion belived would lead this rebuild - Brannstrom, White, Wolanin, Logan B, Chalpik. It’s crazy we are the ones asking the GM to play the players he promised us.

Its backwards what’s happening, but every fan in Ottawa knows we finally have our hand on the rebuild steering wheel / calmness has settled into the fanbase, coach is off the hot seat.

good work fans. We should apt ourselves on the back for saving this team for itself....again

 

[supsens]

Pierre Dorion is in a very weird and unique spot right now as a GM - he had the worst team in hockey and the Ottawa fans have settled into ‘we’re good with this’.

Essentially what has happened in the past 2 weeks is the fans have dictated the lineup to the coach and GM and they caved and it’s worked. The fans for the first time in a very long time in Ottawa feel they have finally done what needed to be done long ago and they got their hands on the steering wheel and they are driving the Senators bus now - and the demands are simple, we’re happy to watch a team lose as long as they do it together and we see light, and the light is the kids.

fans forced Colin White into the lineup and now no one has mentioned his contract. Fans own that now because we demanded he play, no one cares about his salary because we had to fight to get him into the lineup. Same with the kids, they are making mistakes, that’s fine, we can live with it.

there has been this completely assanine rumour around the Senators for the last 15 years that the fans won’t support a rebuild. This comes from a stupid, arrogant and Incorrect place within Ottawa ownership group. Look at what we want, we are demanding losing and demanding rookies and demanding slow growth. How wrong they have been about this and I believe this played into the acquisitions of Stepan and company.

this “Ottawa fans won’t stick with their team” is an idea that doesn’t come from Ottawa, or from any knowledge base. It has always been wrong and I’m glad these last 2 weeks have happened because it completely shatters this stupid rumour and shows how out of touch ownership is with the community, and really hilites why management keeps trying to steer us off the rebuild highway when the fans demand we keep her steady as she goes on cruise control.

management asked for patience, fans were like ‘yes, rebuild this dumpster fire’ and management was like “hang on there’s a shortcut up here’ and have been doing that for 2 years, we finally said enough - and the weirdest part is the fans are asking for the players Dorion belived would lead this rebuild - Brannstrom, White, Wolanin, Logan B, Chalpik. It’s crazy we are the ones asking the GM to play the players he promised us.

Its backwards what’s happening, but every fan in Ottawa knows we finally have our hand on the rebuild steering wheel / calmness has settled into the fanbase, coach is off the hot seat.

good work fans. We should apt ourselves on the back for saving this team for itself....again

Lol White was trash last year and probably decided he was a 'star' because of that contract. They let him know whats up and it worked. They traded stone for Bran if you don't think they plan on him being a big part of the team you are mistaken
You are so down on the team you think the fans need the credit.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I asked Mr. Melnyk 15 times already if we can get Stone some more money and the answer was always no..
Oh well there is always tomorrow may be he says yes ..
Oh well there is always tomorrow may be he says yes
Oh well there is always tomorrow may be he says yes
It seems I have run out of time and options

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Did someone say something to the effect that we should not criticize Dorion because he is trying

 

[supsens]

Did someone say something to the effect that we should not criticize Dorion because he is trying

What’s crazy is how many people like this praised the sens before the season started for starting to spend money look legit and bring in real NHL players.
Everyone thought it was great but now Dorion is “stupid”

 

[Ice-Tray]

Do people seriously think that the team is making roster decisions based on fan posts?

I have now seen it all....

 

[Beech]

Do people seriously think that the team is making roster decisions based on fan posts?

I have now seen it all....

no..but the team appears to be making decisions based upon haphazard thinking. Preach Rebuild, then keep young hopefuls away. Preach build for the future, then sign players who are either finished or on the real downside of their careers. Preach modern NHL and then sign and ice a bigger, slower, less puck possession team.

Another 12 game stretch just like what the team went through and it may not be all that bad to take your queue from fan posts. If nothing else, many of the people who post on here, have actual adhered to the above views.

 

[BatherSeason]

What’s crazy is how many people like this praised the sens before the season started for starting to spend money look legit and bring in real NHL players.
Everyone thought it was great but now Dorion is “stupid”

There were just as many and maybe more that criticized the moves before the season started.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

What’s crazy is how many people like this praised the sens before the season started for starting to spend money look legit and bring in real NHL players.
Everyone thought it was great but now Dorion is “stupid”

Most of the decisions this summer were polarizing and the forum reflected that. There was a lot of criticism as it unfolded, particularly the Brown and Gudbranson acquisitions. A lot of people doubted the Dadonov and Murray deals too, even though they were happy a little money was being spent.

There's a pretty sizable group that are not fans of how the money is spent moreso than the bottom line available to Dorion, now and in the past and likely in the future.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Most of the decisions this summer were polarizing and the forum reflected that. There was a lot of criticism as it unfolded, particularly the Brown and Gudbranson acquisitions. A lot of people doubted the Dadonov and Murray deals too, even though they were happy a little money was being spent.

There's a pretty sizable group that are not fans of how the money is spent moreso than the bottom line available to Dorion, now and in the past and likely in the future.

There definitely weren’t “a lot” of people who doubted the Dadonov deal. There were very few if any.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

There definitely weren’t “a lot” of people who doubted the Dadonov deal. There were very few if any.

most people were positive about Dadonov. Biggest UFA signing in seemingly forever and an offensive player that "could" score. Several did caution on a drop off away from Barkov and Huberdeau

 

[Micklebot]

most people were positive about Dadonov. Biggest UFA signing in seemingly forever and an offensive player that "could" score. Several did caution on a drop off away from Barkov and Huberdeau

Yeah, that's a better framing of peoples thoughts on the Dadonov acquisition. A good chunk were cautioning that we shouldn't expect the same production out of him as he had in florida.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

There definitely weren’t “a lot” of people who doubted the Dadonov deal. There were very few if any.

SOA covered it off, but there were definitely a lot that questioned his effectiveness without a quality center or much skill in general to play with.

I liked the signing, especially since avoiding long term commitments was something I thought should be prioritized, but it was fair to question how effective he would be in Ottawa on such a bad team. Besides, he was more filling the year prior's leading goal scorer in Duclair and was supposed to be an upgrade on his role, so it wasn't like he was just a big addition.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

SOA covered it off, but there were definitely a lot that questioned his effectiveness without a quality center or much skill in general to play with.

He makes $5 million, even with a regression and not playing with the same linemates, that's a good price. He doesn't have to match what he's done in the last few seasons. He would have made $7+ million in a normal off-season. 99% of people in the signing thread were thrilled about the deal. He can be a Clarke MacArthur type for us.

 

[SENATOR]

When Dorion started to buy rotten potatoes on the NHL bazaar. Merchants just pissed their pants with excitement to unload their trash. Dorion is the ultimate trash disposal of NHL. NHL needs more Dorions, not less. And every year is like this. Total incompetence.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

He makes $5 million, even with a regression and not playing with the same linemates, that's a good price. He doesn't have to match what he's done in the last few seasons. He would have made $7+ million in a normal off-season. 99% of people in the signing thread were thrilled about the deal. He can be a Clarke MacArthur type for us.

I'm not disputing the deal, I liked the deal, was just pointing out that there were most definitely a lot of people questioning it and as I edited my post after you quoted, many would have been just fine sticking with Duclair through arbitration for another year.

Supsens claimed everyone turned on Dorion's moves after the fact and that's incorrect, there was a ton of criticism on this board this summer as everything transpired one by one. Some moves applauded, some received lukewarm, and some were dragged by most.

If people want to argue on Dorion's behalf for his moves, that's totally fine. They might even turn out to be right and can claim so when it happens, but those of us that often oppose a lot of his decisions certainly deserve to have had their opinions not misrepresented as if they're just changing their minds later on. So many of his decisions were lambasted the moment they were made dating all the way back to his first big one and many have turned out poorly, so those that called it should be able to say I told you so.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

When Dorion started to buy rotten potatoes on the NHL bazaar. Merchants just pissed their pants with excitement to unload their trash. Dorion is the ultimate trash disposal of NHL. NHL needs more Dorions, not less. And every year is like this. Total incompetence.

That's true and I know I lose perspective on that.. Dorion only looks terrible compared to everyone else in a GM seat in the NHL. Take that away and he's a marvel.

 

[coladin]

Most of the decisions this summer were polarizing and the forum reflected that. There was a lot of criticism as it unfolded, particularly the Brown and Gudbranson acquisitions. A lot of people doubted the Dadonov and Murray deals too, even though they were happy a little money was being spent.

There's a pretty sizable group that are not fans of how the money is spent moreso than the bottom line available to Dorion, now and in the past and likely in the future.

No one doubted Dadonov. It was as unanimous a signing that I had seen since maybe Gonchar or MacArthur.

Murry was more about term, not about his ability that was questioned although some were worried , but in general people liked the player signing. Gudbranson , along with many others, are just placeholders in the even the young guys don't pan out. We have already seen short term contract guys like Coburn and Brown on the back end put in their spot. Up front, this will happen as well, with Paquette really in it to hold on to his job now. Galchenyuk was also an insurance policy in case Stutzle wasn't going to work, and now he will watch more than play. Stepas is also a guy on a short term deal, again, brought in just incase , and he will sit too.

I figured that is why these stop gap measures were brought in, and being on the road for two weeks, this team now looks a lot different

 

[SENATOR]

most people were positive about Dadonov. Biggest UFA signing in seemingly forever and an offensive player that "could" score. Several did caution on a drop off away from Barkov and Huberdeau

Dadonov is a complimentary scoring player. He needs Stuetzle with 2-3 years of NHL experience playing center. Then he will be very affective and may be even will crack 30 goals per season But DJ Smith does not play Stuetzle at center. Why? I am not a GM. But it is a very simple logic. If you bring a complimentary player in Dadonov, he needs to pay with a first line established NHL center. Where is he???? If Dorion can not evaluate players in the league and watch the tapes, why he is still a GM? Thinking then Dadonov can do it on his own. What is Dorion's plan? Why Dorion brings random players? What is a team he is building? Boston Bruins? Who won the punch bowl once in the last 50 years. Crazy and sporadic moves from him all the time, serving no propose at all and not improving the team. This is your most important role as a GM, to know your NHL players and what they can do for you. What about Stepan? What is a Dorion's logic behind it? Big slow body, who can not compete in a division, where all the teams outside of Senators I would say, crack top 15. And it means they are playoffs teams, the crop of the NHL. Every night you play against another NHL playoff team and then another. What Dorion was thinking, to embarrass us as a franchise? I am tired of his incompetence.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

No one doubted Dadonov. It was as unanimous a signing that I had seen since maybe Gonchar or MacArthur.

Murry was more about term, not about his ability that was questioned although some were worried , but in general people liked the player signing. Gudbranson , along with many others, are just placeholders in the even the young guys don't pan out. We have already seen short term contract guys like Coburn and Brown on the back end put in their spot. Up front, this will happen as well, with Paquette really in it to hold on to his job now. Galchenyuk was also an insurance policy in case Stutzle wasn't going to work, and now he will watch more than play. Stepas is also a guy on a short term deal, again, brought in just incase , and he will sit too.

I figured that is why these stop gap measures were brought in, and being on the road for two weeks, this team now looks a lot different

I said polarizing, not widely panned. A lot liked them and at the same time many did not. I don't feel the need to even argue that about Brown, Gudbranson and Stepan.

There were many that questioned the Dadonov signing in the context of where the team is and acknowledged that while his deal was decent for value, he would mostly be replacing Duclair's production from the year before, so it was seen as a bit of a sideways move where some thought the better strategy was just taking Duclair to arbitration. Like I said, I liked the deal but there were others that thought it was only a modest improvement requiring a hefty 3 year commitment that would then need to fit in to a new team that is the worst in the league.

Murray was most certainly polarizing, not much to dispute there. Both the potential of him getting his game back and the financial commitment.

Based on your response, I think the point is being missed though, I wasn't arguing these moves atm, I've said my piece on them when they happened. People want to call these deals from the start and lay out how they think they'll turn out and then we all sit back and wait. Its patronizing to then read that they're just turning their heel to spit on Dorion when it's convenient. There are a ton of people around here that have been screaming from the top of the mountain for Dorion's entire tenure disagreeing with move after move, dating all the way back to the first one and when deals work out as they predicted, they should get to call it as they did.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Simmer just obliterating Dorion this morning.