GM Chuck Fletcher v4

[Rich Nixon]

You’ve put a lot more thought into this than I do.

Niskanen and Braun > hagg gudas and Macdonald

Basically, but that leaves room for someone to slap some decontextualized graph down (that seems to show some semblance of the opposite) and then go "SEE NO DIFFERENCE." I tend to write long, but I want my exact position completely understood. It's mostly all common sense, but contrarianism and defeatism hate that sort of thing.

Said it months ago when AV was hired, but some folks around here are just gonna be sick to their damn stomachs when this team is challenging for the division in late February.

 

[TCTC]

I’m going to be blunt. You don’t understand what’s being discussed. Now maybe that’s other people’s fault for not being clear, yours for not understanding it, or most likely a mixture of the two.

What a player has done and what a player will do are completely separate discussions. This is why I keep trying to bring up the idea of predictive vs descriptive metrics.

Here is what I am saying: If Justin Brian brings a more positive net impact next year than Andrew MacDonald brought last year, that’s a significant win based on Braun’s play the last few years.

Here is what I am not saying: Andrew MacDonald is generally a better player than Justin Braun.

Within careers, there are huge swings from year to year, month to month, etc. AMac played some legitimately very good hockey paired with Gudas for a while last year that factor heavily with the arbitrary seasonal cutoff. And yes, @deadhead brought this up last year. And yes, I agreed with him once I looked into it.

"AMac was better than both Niskanen and Braun last year." That's the statement I was referring to. Not very complicated.
You may agree with that quote, but I don't.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

"AMac was better than both Niskanen and Braun last year." That's the statement I was referring to. Not very complicated.
You may agree with that quote, but I don't.

You referred to not remembering anyone bringing up AMac’s quality of play. Just as in your eye test carrying quite frankly no authority, that statement doesn’t.

There may not have been many people saying it, but for all the crap people give him, Deady deserves credit for this. I distinctly remember having the conversations with him and being flabbergasted when I looked into it just how right he was.

 

[TCTC]

You referred to not remembering anyone bringing up AMac’s quality of play. Just as in your eye test carrying quite frankly no authority, that statement doesn’t.

There may not have been many people saying it, but for all the crap people give him, Deady deserves credit for this. I distinctly remember having the conversations with him and being flabbergasted when I looked into it just how right he was.

That's because Deadhead doesn't shit on the whipping boys like others do. He's one of the few people on this board who don't make the GDTs intolerable at times.

I never tought MacDonald was that terrible. You won't find many posts from me singling him out after a loss.
But I'm still confident in saying that Niskanen and Braun are better than him.

 

[Rebels57]

MacDonald was f***ing trash last year, just like the year before, and the year before that. He was only able to start surviving shifts without killing us when he was mercifully reduced to the bottom pair and got sheltered usage. His play the first 2 months or so was almost comical.

 

[TCTC]

MacDonald was ****ing trash last year, just like the year before, and the year before that. He was only able to start surviving shifts without killing us when he was mercifully reduced to the bottom pair and got sheltered usage. His play the first 2 months or so was almost comical.

He's always been a very flawed defenseman. I think in a more limited role he could've been useful. But as I said after he was bought out, he joined the team at the wrong time.
He clearly wasn't good enough to be the main veteran defenseman on this team.

 

[tucson83]

MacDonald was ****ing trash last year, just like the year before, and the year before that. He was only able to start surviving shifts without killing us when he was mercifully reduced to the bottom pair and got sheltered usage. His play the first 2 months or so was almost comical.

the fact he's not getting alot of suitors, that tells alot.

 

[Magua]

Filppula will be great for our middle 6. Expecting big things.

 

[Striiker]

It’s funny that people think Niskanen and Braun will be in a supporting role instead of top 4 defensemen.

 

[hatcher]

Supporting sanheim and provy in the top 4 and will do a great job.

 

[DancingPanther]

It’s funny that people think Niskanen and Braun will be in a supporting role instead of top 4 defensemen.

I'm ok with Niskanen seeing top 4 minutes to start the year. Braun not so much.

What I REALLY want to see is the Provorov-Ghost pair back

 

[Striiker]

I'm ok with Niskanen seeing top 4 minutes to start the year. Braun not so much.

What I REALLY want to see is the Provorov-Ghost pair back

Agreed on both parts, but unfortunately it’s unlikely to go as we want.

The Braun trade was trash, but the worst part is how likely it is that he’s now going to be overused and replacing Ghost in the top 4. If he was just used on the bottom pair the mistake would be more tolerable.

But nope. Gotta have dinosaurs.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Provorov & Ghost are both very prone to bad turnovers & mistakes. Not a good pairing, & it showed early last season. Not that they didn’t have a good stretch 2 seasons ago, but I still don’t think they should be paired.

 

[hatcher]

Provorov & Ghost are both very prone to bad turnovers & mistakes. Not a good pairing, & it showed early last season. Not that they didn’t have a good stretch 2 seasons ago, but I still don’t think they should be paired.

Terrible.

 

[hatcher]

Rewatch the playoffs and watch Braun Play. Awesome hard minutes.

 

[deadhead]

I don't think Ghost should play heavy minutes, he's far more valuable on the PP than at ES, and he's least valuable protecting a lead.
And he's injury prone and his play falls off substantially when he's dinged.
So simple logic says use him where he's most valuable (PP, O-zone starts) and shelter him and limit his minutes to maximize that value.

Niskanen and Braun are "minute eaters," that is, they can hold their own against tough matchups and allow you to shelter the third pair.
At some point, you can take the training wheels off Myers and I'd expect that's when Braun's minutes would be reduced.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Provorov & Ghost are both very prone to bad turnovers & mistakes. Not a good pairing, & it showed early last season. Not that they didn’t have a good stretch 2 seasons ago, but I still don’t think they should be paired.

Id rather have a pair that has shown they can be elite that makes mistakes over a pair that is never good and makes mistakes.

 

[hatcher]

Id rather have a pair that has shown they can be elite that makes mistakes over a pair that is never good and makes mistakes.

Scoring points elite below average d. Gotta be solid dman for big minutes in all aspects.

 

[Rebels57]

Agreed on both parts, but unfortunately it’s unlikely to go as we want.

The Braun trade was trash, but the worst part is how likely it is that he’s now going to be overused and replacing Ghost in the top 4. If he was just used on the bottom pair the mistake would be more tolerable.

But nope. Gotta have dinosaurs.

I'll eat a sewer lid if Braun is on the ice more than Ghost this season.

 

[Striiker]

Id rather have a pair that has shown they can be elite that makes mistakes over a pair that is never good and makes mistakes.

That pair was disgustingly good, but I guess we dont want that.

What’s funny is some people still don’t understand that puck possession, puck moving, and scoring is the most effective form of defense.

 

[Rich Nixon]

It kinda remains to be seen how Vigneault sorts out the defense, though he's said in the past he likes a standard LD/RD LD/RD LD/RD setup. To me that naturally ends up with Provorov-Niskanen and then Sanheim and Ghost each getting one of Myers/Braun.

I could see it starting Sanheim/Braun on the second pairing and Myers being up there by midseason. If you end up with Ghost/Braun as your third pairing towards the end of the season, with Ghost getting his heavy PP minutes and Braun eating PK time...it's a damn good pairing. You're never going to get "caught" with a bad matchup out there.

 

[deadhead]

Some people don't understand defense, and ignore that the top scoring teams all exited the playoffs early.

You need balance, even a good possession group only controls the puck 55% of the time, which means they'd better not leak goals the other 45%.

Provorov - Ghost were bitchslapped by the Pens forecheck in the playoffs, and the rest of the league took notes.
The first rule in sports is you don't know if anything is real until the rest of the league has a chance to observe and adjust.

 

[Striiker]

I'll eat a sewer lid if Braun is on the ice more than Ghost this season.

Overall or even just at 5v5. Neither would be acceptable.

It’s certainly a real danger.

Braun should be getting bottom pair minutes all year.

 

[deadhead]

No, Ghost should be getting 3rd pair minutes at ES, Ghost healthy >>>>> Ghost dinged.
Why would you risk an elite PP QB and your best offensive player for O-zone starts for 3 minutes a night of play in his D-zone?

 

[Striiker]

It kinda remains to be seen how Vigneault sorts out the defense, though he's said in the past he likes a standard LD/RD LD/RD LD/RD setup. To me that naturally ends up with Provorov-Niskanen and then Sanheim and Ghost each getting one of Myers/Braun.

I could see it starting Sanheim/Braun on the second pairing and Myers being up there by midseason. If you end up with Ghost/Braun as your third pairing towards the end of the season, with Ghost getting his heavy PP minutes and Braun eating PK time...it's a damn good pairing. You're never going to get "caught" with a bad matchup out there.

That’s like saying it makes sense to put Couturier on the 4th line to cause matchup problems.

Wasting Ghost on the 3rd pair is unacceptable. He’s too valuable.