Post-Game Talk: GM 54 | Flames def. Canucks - 5-4 (OT) (Boeser x2, Miller, Graovac)

Svencouver

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I think there's something there with Juolevi as a hockey player but his development has just been completely f***ed at every stage, whether it's at the hands of injury or poor handling by coaches and staff. I could see a Forsling like trajectory if he really gets strong on his skates again and finds a chance elsewhere, but he's a long way from playing consistently at the NHL level. The mental side of his injury and meekness and timidness may never improve, at least with our running of the franchise and our rejection of sports science.
 
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vancityluongo

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Juolevi would really benefit from being on a good defense, with a proper veteran partner and away from the stench of being a bust in a rabid market.

He'll probably never be more than a 5/6, but he won't even be that here.
 

Nucker101

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Juolevi can’t pivot well, that’s a major issue, especially in today’s game where every team is trying to build a forward group that can skate fast. Josh freakin Leivo made him look like a pylon
 
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theguardianII

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Biggest takeaway from this one is how bad Joulevi looked. The same problems that have cropped up throughout his years since the draft were on display tonight They include:

- getting easily bumped off the puck deep in his end with him often falling to the ice
- getting beat wide because of his clunky feet
- backing in on everything because of fear of getting beat wide (at one point backing up right behind the goal line)
- despite backing off, not getting to the puck quick enough to make a play and having to throw the puck around the boards unloading his problems on to someone else
- losing his check in his end and standing around

I've said play him so we can assess him. And this game contributes to that assessment. And I'd say right now he is miserably failing.

There have been so many, over the years, who out of hope Joulevi can be player or who get miffed that someone might have done better than us in the draft, that are willing to make constant excuses and alibis for this player. If he makes a pass that your ordinary NHL defenseman makes 10 times a game they are praising it to the heavens. If he has a few ordinary shifts were he doesn't screw up too much they are saying how steady he is. Few, seemingly, want to accept the reality that this player, at this point, is an absolute bust. There is nothing he has done since he was drafted that indicates that he close to NHL material. I watched him in Utica and honestly he wasn't much good there either. He lost out to Rafferty on the power play and often have huge problems defensively. He just hasn't in any way shown he is NHL material.

Hughes's game was sort of microcosm of his season. Brilliant at times offensive but also some rough shifts in his end. Times in the third when he just went to another level. Continues to be someone to get excited about even given a very difficult season defensively.

Gadjovich never got a chance to show anything. Did ok in the fight but probably should have re-thunk getting into it. Fear that he will be taken in the ED are IMO way overblown. Seattle will know about his skating.

Graovac is making a case for a good look next year. Should be tried on the PK. If he can do that he should move ahead of Beagle.

Boyd looking increasing suspect defensively. Questionable whether the team should bring him back. Would only be on a two way.

Vesey had an excellent game and actually looked talented. You wonder if he has any future with the team. Again on a two way maybe - he is someone who would star in Abbotsford.

TANK is never safe with this team. You sometimes get your hopes up but then always get harpooned by this bunch. In this game Calgary just tried to fatten their stats in the third and forgot about defense leaving Markstrom on his own. One of the chief culprit was Tkachuk, who, despite being a hugely better choice than Joulevi, is not near living up to the bucks the Flames are paying him.
Most of those players that have been brought in were castoffs from other teams. Does this team really need more Veys, Etems, Pouliots or Clendenings? More projects?
If there are drafted players that are still way off then is it the drafting or the development?

Make room for Expansion trades. There will be very decent players that teams will not be afraid to trade with the Canucks because they are so far away from a playoff spot, they will not look bad.

IMO, for most of these guys they are auditioning for the AHL.

Next year will be worse than this year.
 
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m9

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I really don't think Juolevi has a future in this organization. He's shown very little in terms of skills that translate to him being a regular.

If you slot Hughes/Rathbone in long-term on the left side then you likely want a defensive/PK guy with them. That's not Juolevi.
 

Zippgunn

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And we turned around to give 4.3M to Holtby to put up one of the worst goaltending performances in the NHL.

Marky has hardly been a "Vezina calibre" goalie this year whereas Holtby gets all the terrible starts where he gets hung out to dry game after game. Also he has an actual Vezina trophy...
 

m9

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Marky has hardly been a "Vezina calibre" goalie this year whereas Holtby gets all the terrible starts where he gets hung out to dry game after game. Also he has an actual Vezina trophy...

How does Holtby's Vezina trophy for his work in 2015 help this team in 2021?
 
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arttk

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I really don't think Juolevi has a future in this organization. He's shown very little in terms of skills that translate to him being a regular.

If you slot Hughes/Rathbone in long-term on the left side then you likely want a defensive/PK guy with them. That's not Juolevi.
Pretty sure Juolevi will be traded the moment we get a new GM.
 
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Zippgunn

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How does Holtby's Vezina trophy for his work in 2015 help this team in 2021?

Obviously it doesn't help much if you have to play the whole other team singlehandedly...
Did you watch the game? How many of the goals he let in would you consider the goalie's fault?
 

m9

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Obviously it doesn't help much if you have to play the whole other team singlehandedly...
Did you watch the game? How many of the goals he let in would you consider the goalie's fault?

He could have stopped any of the first 5 goals. Not saying he should have stopped them all, but a good goalie probably would have gotten to 1 or 2.

But what's the point of this conversation? I don't know if you are related to Holtby or what, but you've been defending his bad play all year. Then after he gives up 6 goals, you're talking up his Vezina trophy from 5 years ago like anyone should care.
 
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Zippgunn

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He could have stopped any of the first 5 goals. Not saying he should have stopped them all, but a good goalie probably would have gotten to 1 or 2.

But what's the point of this conversation? I don't know if you are related to Holtby or what, but you've been defending his bad play all year. Then after he gives up 6 goals, you're talking up his Vezina trophy from 5 years ago like anyone should care.

Board rules preclude me from continuing this conversation. Clearly you (and countless others here) have a real hate on for the guy. Have a nice day.
 

m9

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Board rules preclude me from continuing this conversation. Clearly you (and countless others here) have a real hate on for the guy. Have a nice day.

My thoughts aren't personal, by all accounts Holtby is good guy. He's just not a very good goalie anymore and whatever trophy he won 5 years ago doesn't change that.
 

VanJack

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With the exception of a couple of lights-out performances, Holtby gives you exactly what you'd expect from an over-30 goalie--basically 'average goaltending'.

He makes some great saves, gets beat on others on which he has no chance; and then lets in a couple he'd like to have back. 'Average goaltending' may have been enough in Washington, but it isn't remotely good enough in VanCity.

The Canucks are so porous defensively, they simply can't win with 'average goaltending'.

Look at the last game, a 4-1 win in Edmonton. Demko was called upon to stop two breakaways against Draisaitl and another from McDavid, two of the most dangerous forwards in the NHL. For good measure he went eyeball to eyeball with Chiasson and stoned him as well. And throughout the game made some difficult saves look easy. Without that kind of stellar netminding the Canucks don't win that game and won't win many others.

The Canucks and Holtby just weren't a good fit from the very beginning. And now with a year left on his contract, all he's doing is blocking DiPietro from getting NHL starts he needs.
 

M2Beezy

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I cant believe how bad Calgary has become this season, I thought theyd win the division. I know these games are SUPER meaningless but man o man did the look bad, man
 
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VanJack

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Edler 'giveth' and 'taketh' away. His point slapper was tipped by Boeser to tie it late, but the Flames win on an Edler 'own goal'. Oh well, can't fault the Canucks for trying to get him his 100th NHL goal. But tells me, they probably know deep down he won't be back.

But the guy replacing him, won't be Juolevi. When he got completely turnstyled on the second Flames goal, you could see Green shaking his head on the bench....spoke volumes about what he thinks of the player.

You can see his vision good and his stretch passes are reasonably effective.....but his skating won't ever get him a regular spot on an NHL blueline. And to top if off, for a guy who's listed at 6'2" and over 200, he's incredibly weak along the wall.

Time to move on. Maybe Jimbo can find another team with a first round pick who's basically flopped. It would basically be a 'change of scenery' trade.
 
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Pastor Of Muppetz

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I am predicting we win one more game.. (I'll be very surprised if Marky plays both games)..and end the season with 50 points.
 

Hoglander

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Unfortunately, Juolevi will never skate well enough to be anything. Not really worth protecting in the ED. Maybe worth another struggling prospect needing a change of scenery.

Kind of funny, that we might not have even 1 Dman worth protecting. Myers just isn't and it should be self-explanatory, Schmidt has value but also has a large/long contract that might not age well and might help us more if we got out from under it, and Juolevi is only protected by default due to shallow player/prospect depth. Chatfield is Chatfield, see Juolevi.
 

Zanon

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wtf they came back?! i turned it off after 4-1 and went to bed. what a bunch of losers. can't even lose right. and now they're ahead of detroit and columbus!
 
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Grantham

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wtf they came back?! i turned it off after 4-1 and went to bed. what a bunch of losers. can't even lose right. and now they're ahead of detroit and columbus!
Stupid loosie loosersons!

Can we also talk about Brock Friggin Boeser.. 10 shots. 10!!! A hairbreadth away from a hatrick and OT winner. Had a chip on his shoulder the entire game too. Kid was the best player on either side.
 

tyhee

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...

Both these teams are light-years away from being Cup contenders. I suppose if you're a Flames fan it's almost worse, because that team was built to win 'now' and there's nowhere for this roster to go but down.

...

It's a sinking, hollow feeling to be a Flames/Canucks fan right now.

I have to confess to not feeling better looking at the Canucks and knowing they were built to compete for the playoffs now as opposed to the Flames fans looking at their team built to win now.
 

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