Pre-Game Talk: GM 4: Vancouver Canucks @ San Jose Sharks - May 7 - 7:00PM PST - TSN

[EpochLink]

How Mason Raymond still gets a spot in this lineup day in and day out but Keith Ballard doesn't get a shot on the backend is just an example of Alain Vigneault's ridiculous world of lineup management.

He's just completely useless at pushing the right buttons to get players going. Ever heard of a pressbox? That's where Raymond belongs.

Don't worry, AV will be long gone after this first round exit.

Mason Raymond will be gone as well

 

[NuxFan09]

They finished 6th in the conference that season, 7 points behind the Canucks. They went on a lucky run and that's all it was. Why are we comparing Canucks to them? Last I checked we won the President's Trophy twice and won the NW this season.

Do you still believe in this core? My Lord....

 

[Tiranis]

Two of the most meaningless accomplishments there are in professional sports.

I don't see how they're meaningless. You have to be consistently good all year to win the President's Trophy. I hate this whole 'Cup or bust' mentality.

And either way, this has nothing to do with my post. Canucks are/were an elite team. Flames got lucky to make the SCF. They're two different teams with two very different futures.

Do you still believe in this core? My Lord....

Yes. Same way I believed that the Caps would be back with a coaching change.

 

[Big Naissak]

I don't see how they're meaningless. You have to be consistently good all year to win the President's Trophy. I hate this whole 'Cup or bust' mentality.

And either way, this has nothing to do with my post. Canucks are/were an elite team. Flames got lucky to make the SCF. They're two different teams with two very different futures.



Yes. Same way I knew Caps would be back with a coaching change.

So your okay with our recent struggles due to our past "Accomplishments" ?

And if we went on to be the next flames would you say we utilized our core players this team had over the years properly?

 

[MrShift4]

I would really appreciate some decent reffing.

Thanks

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

They finished 6th in the conference that season, 7 points behind the Canucks. They went on a lucky run and that's all it was. Why are we comparing Canucks to them? Last I checked we won the President's Trophy twice and won the NW this season.

Well thats not saying much.

And as far as I'm concerned the past is the past. There is no doubt in my mind that this team is on decline and needs more than just a re-tool. I'm not saying blow it all up and wait five + years to get into the playoffs again; but a shakeup is definitely needed and a coaching change isn't going to do it alone. There are some core pieces that should be traded while they still have value imho.

The Canucks haven't consistenly played like a true contender since*last January.

 

[NuxFan09]

I don't see how they're meaningless. You have to be consistently good all year to win the President's Trophy. I hate this whole 'Cup or bust' mentality.

And either way, this has nothing to do with my post. Canucks are/were an elite team. Flames got lucky to make the SCF. They're two different teams with two very different futures.



Yes. Same way I believed that the Caps would be back with a coaching change.

Ask the Ottawa Senators how keeping their perennial powerhouse together after getting to the Cup final worked out. Just to save you the time, it didn't work out so well so Murray and Senators ownership finally agreed to a rebuild and they now look like a refreshed, exciting, young team. The Canucks need to embark on a re-tool akin to that of the Senators when they dealt Meszaros, Heatley, Fisher, Vermette, Foligno, Kelly etc.

 

[NuxFan09]

Tiranis, there's a big difference between the Capitals and Canucks. The Capitals simply underachieved severely. They never showed the same hopeless mental issues that the Canucks have displayed. The Capitals needed a coaching change. The Canucks need a core shake-up as their core is now stale and, quite frankly, dysfunctional.

 

[MajorCanuck]

I don't see how they're meaningless. You have to be consistently good all year to win the President's Trophy. I hate this whole 'Cup or bust' mentality.

And either way, this has nothing to do with my post. Canucks are/were an elite team. Flames got lucky to make the SCF. They're two different teams with two very different futures.



Yes. Same way I believed that the Caps would be back with a coaching change.

LOL, forget the cup, we cant even win playoff games right now. What are we at, 1 win in our last 10 playoff games?

 

[PhilMick]

I would really appreciate some decent reffing.

Thanks

Maybe try the NFL? Or possibly major junior hockey. It is not to be found here

 

[CherryToke]

I don't see how they're meaningless. You have to be consistently good all year to win the President's Trophy. I hate this whole 'Cup or bust' mentality.

And either way, this has nothing to do with my post. Canucks are/were an elite team. Flames got lucky to make the SCF. They're two different teams with two very different futures.



Yes. Same way I believed that the Caps would be back with a coaching change.

Caps elite core players are on the right side of 30 and can produce in the playoffs.

ovechkin - 27
backstrom - 25
green - 27
Carlson - 22

 

[dc]

I don't see how they're meaningless. You have to be consistently good all year to win the President's Trophy. I hate this whole 'Cup or bust' mentality.

And either way, this has nothing to do with my post. Canucks are/were an elite team. Flames got lucky to make the SCF. They're two different teams with two very different futures.



Yes. Same way I believed that the Caps would be back with a coaching change.

The Canucks are elite? How do you explain the last two post seasons? L.A. got extremely lucky too because they're a low seed? You don't go all the way to the finals on luck. Give your head a shake.

 

[PhilMick]

Tiranis, there's a big difference between the Capitals and Canucks. The Capitals simply underachieved severely. They never showed the same hopeless mental issues that the Canucks have displayed. The Capitals needed a coaching change. The Canucks need a core shake-up as their core is now stale and, quite frankly, dysfunctional.

I think I'm with Tiranis on this one. The biggest shake up this core should receive is Henrik losing his C. Love the guy, just not a captain.

Side note, did you know that when Henrik was given the C, the Canucks were one of only two teams (the Ducks being the other) where management handed out the C, and it wasn't voted on by the team?

 

[Tiranis]

Tiranis, there's a big difference between the Capitals and Canucks. The Capitals simply underachieved severely. They never showed the same hopeless mental issues that the Canucks have displayed. The Capitals needed a coaching change. The Canucks need a core shake-up as their core is now stale and, quite frankly, dysfunctional.

That's what people are saying now. I'll be perfectly happy to look up all the posts about the 'horrible leader' Ovechkin or the mental midget Backstrom. Plus all the posts saying that Green is past his prime and the injuries have done him in.

Funny how the tune changes after they start winning. It wasn't too long ago, that only Proto and I were predicting the Capitals comeback while everyone considered us delusional. I distinctly remember a huge debate in the 'Around the League' thread about Ovechkin's captaincy where 90+% of posters said he was done, lazy, not a leader, etc.

 

[KDizzle]

Tiranis, there's a big difference between the Capitals and Canucks. The Capitals simply underachieved severely. They never showed the same hopeless mental issues that the Canucks have displayed. The Capitals needed a coaching change. The Canucks need a core shake-up as their core is now stale and, quite frankly, dysfunctional.

Short memory, eh?

2009 Caps - 2nd seed in East - 2nd round exit. Get blown out 6-2 in game 7 against the Pens
2010 Caps - Presidents Trophy winners - Give up a 3-1 series lead to lose to the Habs in the 1st round.
2011 Caps - Best team in the East - Swept in the 2nd round.
- Coaching Change -
2012 Caps - 2nd round exit, but showed more moxie in the playoffs after Boudreau left

Sounds like the Canucks, if you ask me.


Edit: As for the argument at hand. I firmly believe that if this core can stay healthy and be rejuvenated under a new system, they can thrive. Of course, the healthy part of it is the big unknown. But the talent is there for at least 2 more productive seasons under the right guidance, IMO.

 

[arsmaster*]

Ask the Ottawa Senators how keeping their perennial powerhouse together after getting to the Cup final worked out. Just to save you the time, it didn't work out so well so Murray and Senators ownership finally agreed to a rebuild and they now look like a refreshed, exciting, young team. The Canucks need to embark on a re-tool akin to that of the Senators when they dealt Meszaros, Heatley, Fisher, Vermette, Foligno, Kelly etc.

Difference is, the Senators scouting and development staff IMO is much better than ours.

They just keep pumping their prospects into the NHL and don't skip a beat.

We don't see capable of doing that, nor do we have the same type of prospects.

They also hit a grand slam with Karlsson.

 

[TruGr1t]

Caps elite core players are on the right side of 30 and can produce in the playoffs.

ovechkin - 27
backstrom - 25
green - 27
Carlson - 22

Yeah, it's a poor comparison. Washington is like a good comparison for the pre-2011 Canucks when the Sedins were actually hitting their primes. I don't think you can count on them bouncing back like Ovechkin, who is a year younger than Kesler without all the injury baggage.

Also that core is much better than what Vancouver is currently looking at next year. You can tack Alzner onto that list, as well as Johansson. In fact, outside of Ovechkin and Green it's arguable the Caps still have a lot of upside left in their core players. Backstrom is only 25!

 

[MrShift4]

Maybe try the NFL? Or possibly major junior hockey. It is not to be found here

No kidding.

My statement can be applied to all games/series.

 

[Barney Gumble]

TIt wasn't too long ago, that only Proto and I were predicting the Capitals comeback while everyone considered us delusional.

Who could've predicted McPhee traded the 2011-12 Ovechkin for the 2009-10 at the 2012-13 trading deadline?

(ok I stole that line from somebody...)

 

[NuxFan09]

Short memory, eh?

2009 Caps - 2nd seed in East - 2nd round exit. Get blown out 6-2 in game 7 against the Pens
2010 Caps - Presidents Trophy winners - Give up a 3-1 series lead to lose to the Habs in the 1st round.
2011 Caps - Best team in the East - Swept in the 2nd round.
- Coaching Change -
2012 Caps - 2nd round exit, but showed more moxie in the playoffs after Boudreau left

Sounds like the Canucks, if you ask me.

I already said the Capitals severely underachieved. I just don't remember them ever imploding like the Canucks so often do. They just lost, fair and square. This current Canucks core implodes and beats themselves.

Some of you may still believe in this group and power to you. Some of us have just seen enough. If the Canucks decide to bring back this game group for another go next year, whatever, nothing I can do about that, but I won't expect anything out of them. Anything. This year was my last year believing.

 

[dc]

Here's the main difference between their core and ours, besides ours having lower cap hits - thankfully. Our best players were drafted in 1999 (Sedin's) and 2003 (Kesler). Washington's were drafted in 2004 (Ovechkin), 2006 (Backstrom). They're younger.

If you think the Sedin's have shown anything in the last 3 playoff series that indicate that they can lead a team back to the finals, you're delusional. They can't even lead the team to a single victory.

 

[CherryToke]

I already said the Capitals severely underachieved. I just don't remember them ever imploding like the Canucks so often do. They just lost, fair and square. This current Canucks core implodes and beats themselves.

Some of you may still believe in this group and power to you. Some of us have just seen enough. If the Canucks decide to bring back this game group for another go next year, whatever, nothing I can do about that, but I won't expect anything out of them. Anything. This year was my last year believing.

even if they did implode they were young and still learning... you can't say that with the Canucks core.

The Canucks are more like the Sharks but I don't see an Logan coutures on the way. MAybe we can trade Edler for someone of that calibur but it's highly unlikely.

 

[Barney Gumble]

Before we give all the praise to the Capitals - people should remember they have about as "successful" post-season record in recent history as the Canucks. One additional playoff round more or less amounts to pretty much **** all in the greater scheme of things.

 

[Grumbler]

even if they did implode they were young and still learning... you can't say that with the Canucks core.

The Canucks are more like the Sharks but I don't see an Logan coutures on the way. MAybe we can trade Edler for someone of that calibur but it's highly unlikely.

We had one, his name was hodgson. AV didn't want him.

 

[NuxFan09]

even if they did implode they were young and still learning... you can't say that with the Canucks core.

The Canucks are more like the Sharks but I don't see an Logan coutures on the way. MAybe we can trade Edler for someone of that calibur but it's highly unlikely.

Hodgson was our Couture, but let's not open that can of worms.