Post-Game Talk: [GM 26] Vancouver Canucks defeat Montreal Canadiens | 7-6 | Garland, Mikheyev(2), Horvat, Studnicka, Kuzmenko, & Pettersson

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

This team just can’t do one or the other. Last season they couldn’t put the puck in the net but they could keep it out of theirs. This season they can put the puck in the net but can’t keep it out of theirs .

The goaltending this season has been killing them, they're getting bottom of the barrel goaltending at the worst times...The D is tragic as well, but the goalies need to make a save.

Canucks had a good fast start last night (at one point out shooting the Habs 9-2), they were ready...Martin wasnt...Martin let in 4 goals on only 8 shots ...conceding 1 goal for every second shot.

 

[brock hughes007]

7 goals for 6 against,,ugly all around.this was a total showcase of 2 teams that have serious issues.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Fun game to watch!
I know neither team is going anywhere and the D and goaltending on both teams was atrocious but lets face it, sports is entertainment and this one was super fun to watch.
EP is on another level right now. Best player on either team by a lot last night. His linemates are really benefiting

 

[m9]

Went back and watched this one again to figure out what exactly happened.

Canucks come out great through 10 minutes are unlucky to not be up by a goal or two.

First Montreal goal was bad all-around. Poor clearing attempts by both Bear & OEL and not much help from the forwards. Another cross-ice goal that hangs the goalie out to dry.

Second goal was the awful Miller pass, but Martin has to have that shot. Third goal at the end of the PP, nothing much to say there.

On the 4th goal, an absolutely awful play by Myers to cut across to the other side of the ice in the neutral zone. No idea how/why a veteran player makes a decision like that. Would have been nice for Martin to grab this one, but another great chance to set it up. Through the first 15 minutes of the second period, it's a bit surprising Montreal doesn't get 2 or 3 more and we're talking about a 6-0 or 6-1 game.

Garland goal is a good play by him mixed with some Montreal mistakes. Mikheyev goal is a dominant shift from EP/Mikheyev'Boeser and a good pinch by Myers. So, 4-2 going into the 3rd.

Great offensive zone shift by Horvat's line on the 4-3 goal. Some timely goaltending by Delia here in between, then Mikheyev buries the great feed from EP to tie things up 4-4.

Such a smart. patient play by Studnicka on the 5-4 goal to take the lead. The bottom six had been basically invisible to this point in the game.

On the 5-5 goal, lots of focus on Bruce yelling at the ref for the faceoff. I don't care about that. What I do care about - an absolutely pathetic play by Hughes - he's just standing there watching the play develop. Not skating, not defending.. just doing nothing. I get he's never going to be an elite defensive player, but the effort has to be there off a defensive faceoff in a 5-4 game.

6-5 goal is again on Hughes, but I won't be as harsh on this one. Tries to make a play in the neutral zone and fails, and then basically is too weak to do anything about the rest of the play. Unlucky to have it bounce in off that.

Tying goal by Kuzmenko is a typical PP that we've seen this year. Very similar to Montreal's 3rd goal with the backdoor deflection.

Not sure what to say about the EP play in OT. Given the situation, I think you have to call that penalty unless there's another view I didn't see. But whatever, it is what it is.

7-6 final but this honestly could have been 10-9. Canucks should have had a couple early and Montreal should have had a couple more in the early 2nd. What a game.

 

[Knight53]

Elias Pettersson is top 5 in Center scoring in the NHL

Quinn Hughes is top 5 in Dman scoring in the NHL

Bo Horvat has 20 goals in 26 games and is 17th in Center scoring

JT Miller is PPG and Kuzmenko just under PPG

Would still be drafting 10th overall if the draft started today.

Nice.

 

[Breakers]

This team just can’t do one or the other. Last season they couldn’t put the puck in the net but they could keep it out of theirs. This season they can put the puck in the net but can’t keep it out of theirs .

exact same problem under green
i remember that Consultant that works for NHL teams on the east coast interviewed by sportsnet and she went through the numbers under green.

every time green tried to fix something, another part of the team game just cratered even worse.
then they would fix that
then the part they thought they fixed turned into a dumpster fire.

 

[arttk]

Elias Pettersson is top 5 in Center scoring in the NHL

Quinn Hughes is top 5 in Dman scoring in the NHL

Bo Horvat has 20 goals in 26 games and is 17th in Center scoring

JT Miller is PPG and Kuzmenko just under PPG

Would still be drafting 10th overall if the draft started today.

Nice.

Love it

 

[MS]

This team just can’t do one or the other. Last season they couldn’t put the puck in the net but they could keep it out of theirs. This season they can put the puck in the net but can’t keep it out of theirs .

I mean, this is just basically goaltending.

We've gone from having top-5ish goaltending in the NHL last year to sitting 31st this year.

If we had league average .900 goaltending this year - which I think most would have considered kind of disappointing heading into the season - we'd have allowed 16 fewer goals to this point in the season.

 

[arttk]

I mean, this is just basically goaltending.

We've gone from having top-5ish goaltending in the NHL last year to sitting 31st this year.

If we had league average .900 goaltending this year - which I think most would have considered kind of disappointing heading into the season - we'd have allowed 16 fewer goals to this point in the season.

Remember how people were shitting on Seattle last year and then this year they are magically competitive. I don’t think there is any team that can compete when goaltending is performing at such a low level.

 

[m9]

This team is awful defensively and routinely giving up very good scoring chances. The goaltending has been bad, but you can't just blame them. Not sure how many goaltenders in the league are giving up less than 4 goals last night, for example.

Blame Demko. Next will be blame Martin.

This team has one good defensive defenseman in Luke Schenn. The rest range from average to terrible in their own zone.

 

[racerjoe]

This team is awful defensively and routinely giving up very good scoring chances. The goaltending has been bad, but you can't just blame them. Not sure how many goaltenders in the league are giving up less than 4 goals last night, for example.

Blame Demko. Next will be blame Martin.

This team has one good defensive defenseman in Luke Schenn. The rest range from average to terrible in their own zone.

Are we ignoring last year than?

The point isn't that the team is good, we aren't the point is the difference between last year and this year.

 

[m9]

Are we ignoring last year than?

The point isn't that the team is good, we aren't the point is the difference between last year and this year.

I think this team is worse defensively this year than last year, yes. Main difference to me is that OEL was giving us solid top4 minutes in a defensive role and he's regressed to a bottom-pairing guy. Stillman is probably worse than any of the guys in that role last year. Bear has been a nice addition offensively but has defensive issues.

The goaltending has been awful, obviously. I just think the year-over-year difference is more than that.

 

[VanJack]

I caught the Sharks-Senators game on the weekend as part of HNIC.....and was shocked to learn that San Jose has the best penalty-kill in the entire NHL. They suck just about everywhere else, except the PK.

I suppose it shouldn't come as a huge shock. The bottom of the Sharks roster is hanging on to an NHL job by their finger-nails. And some of them undoubtedly figure that being superior on the PK, is their ticket to say in the NHL.

It really makes the Canucks PK record so embarrassing. It just shouldn't be that hard to find four guys who can be effective on the PK. But Vancouver continues to have the worst record in the league.

 

[4Twenty]

I mean, this is just basically goaltending.

We've gone from having top-5ish goaltending in the NHL last year to sitting 31st this year.

If we had league average .900 goaltending this year - which I think most would have considered kind of disappointing heading into the season - we'd have allowed 16 fewer goals to this point in the season.

If this but that….

It’s incredible how you no longer seem to give a shit that they’re bottom 5/10 in the stats.

How many less goals would they have if they were not on a shooting percentage spike?

This teams is bottom 10 in xG and has scored 17 more goals than expected.


The goaltending sucks but it’s chicken vs egg. It’s not “basically just goaltending”.

 

[EpochLink]

The goaltending and defense have been bad, the scoring has been consistent.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Went back and watched this one again to figure out what exactly happened.

Canucks come out great through 10 minutes are unlucky to not be up by a goal or two.

First Montreal goal was bad all-around. Poor clearing attempts by both Bear & OEL and not much help from the forwards. Another cross-ice goal that hangs the goalie out to dry.

Second goal was the awful Miller pass, but Martin has to have that shot. Third goal at the end of the PP, nothing much to say there.

On the 4th goal, an absolutely awful play by Myers to cut across to the other side of the ice in the neutral zone. No idea how/why a veteran player makes a decision like that. Would have been nice for Martin to grab this one, but another great chance to set it up. Through the first 15 minutes of the second period, it's a bit surprising Montreal doesn't get 2 or 3 more and we're talking about a 6-0 or 6-1 game.

Garland goal is a good play by him mixed with some Montreal mistakes. Mikheyev goal is a dominant shift from EP/Mikheyev'Boeser and a good pinch by Myers. So, 4-2 going into the 3rd.

Great offensive zone shift by Horvat's line on the 4-3 goal. Some timely goaltending by Delia here in between, then Mikheyev buries the great feed from EP to tie things up 4-4.

Such a smart. patient play by Studnicka on the 5-4 goal to take the lead. The bottom six had been basically invisible to this point in the game.

On the 5-5 goal, lots of focus on Bruce yelling at the ref for the faceoff. I don't care about that. What I do care about - an absolutely pathetic play by Hughes - he's just standing there watching the play develop. Not skating, not defending.. just doing nothing. I get he's never going to be an elite defensive player, but the effort has to be there off a defensive faceoff in a 5-4 game.

6-5 goal is again on Hughes, but I won't be as harsh on this one. Tries to make a play in the neutral zone and fails, and then basically is too weak to do anything about the rest of the play. Unlucky to have it bounce in off that.

Tying goal by Kuzmenko is a typical PP that we've seen this year. Very similar to Montreal's 3rd goal with the backdoor deflection.

Not sure what to say about the EP play in OT. Given the situation, I think you have to call that penalty unless there's another view I didn't see. But whatever, it is what it is.

7-6 final but this honestly could have been 10-9. Canucks should have had a couple early and Montreal should have had a couple more in the early 2nd. What a game.

Good review but EP40 play in OT was not a penalty. It was a good non call. Watch it again in slow no.

If this but that….

It’s incredible how you no longer seem to give a shit that they’re bottom 5/10 in the stats.

How many less goals would they have if they were not on a shooting percentage spike?

This teams is bottom 10 in xG and has scored 17 more goals than expected.


The goaltending sucks but it’s chicken vs egg. It’s not “basically just goaltending”.

I think everyone here knows we stink lol. Nothing us as fans can do except enjoy the entertainment on the odd win and chat about it.

 

[me2]

If we had league average .900 goaltending this year - which I think most would have considered kind of disappointing heading into the season - we'd have allowed 16 fewer goals to this point in the season.

If we'd had the same shooting percentage we'd have scored 17 goals fewer.

 

[arttk]

If we'd had the same shooting percentage we'd have scored 17 goals fewer.

Mmm I didn’t wire that

 

[Peen]

Remember how people were shitting on Seattle last year and then this year they are magically competitive. I don’t think there is any team that can compete when goaltending is performing at such a low level.

The Kraken are T-27th in save percentage this season. (.881 vs .886)

 

[arttk]

The Kraken are T-27th in save percentage this season. (.881 vs .886)

Lol nm. That was a lazy take. Well imagine if they get average goal tending.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I mean, this is just basically goaltending.

We've gone from having top-5ish goaltending in the NHL last year to sitting 31st this year.

If we had league average .900 goaltending this year - which I think most would have considered kind of disappointing heading into the season - we'd have allowed 16 fewer goals to this point in the season.

You cant have league average goaltending when you give the chances we give.

Why is this your new campaign?

 

[racerjoe]

You cant have league average goaltending when you give the chances we give.

Why is this your new campaign?

What were our chances like last year?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

What were our chances like last year?

Our 5on5 profile was bette than this year.

Expecting goaltending to bail you out year in year out is not a plan at all.

 

[Vector]

Punch, are laying the entirety of the poor start on the defensive regression?

I'm a little baffled by everyone here. Clearly Demko has been worse this season than last season. His side-to-side movement has been off, he's giving up rebounds in high danger zones at a greater rate, and saves he's usually made (slightly contested point shots) are finding there way in the back of the net.

Myers has massively regressed to start the season, possibly by rushing back from injury and never getting settled in, to the point that him and OEL were an unplayable pairing. That's stabilize a little with Bear but now it's left the third pairing as extremely weak as Myers is still very bad. Hughes is making mistakes and watching plays far more than last season while Schenn rarely gets played over 16 minutes a game and is usually sheltered against faster competition. Boeser looks even worse defensively this season than last and Miller was as bad as Myers to start the season. I think the forward's weaknesses have been offset by a bit Pettersson's big defensive improvement, the 4th line chewing through minutes, and the addition of Mikheyev. Overall, it's still the same inconsistent effort and execution by the forward corps.

So, yeah, it's very clearly both. Demko has been worse, the defense has regressed, the forwards are just as frustrating as they were last season.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Punch, are laying the entirety of the poor start on the defensive regression?

I'm a little baffled by everyone here. Clearly Demko has been worse this season than last season. His side-to-side movement has been off, he's giving up rebounds in high danger zones at a greater rate, and saves he's usually made (slightly contested point shots) are finding there way in the back of the net.

Myers has massively regressed to start the season, possibly by rushing back from injury and never getting settled in, to the point that him and OEL were an unplayable pairing. That's stabilize a little with Bear but now it's left the third pairing as extremely weak as Myers is still very bad. Hughes is making mistakes and watching plays far more than last season while Schenn rarely gets played over 16 minutes a game and is usually sheltered against faster competition. Boeser looks even worse defensively this season than last and Miller was as bad as Myers to start the season. I think the forward's weaknesses have been offset by a bit Pettersson's big defensive improvement, the 4th line chewing through minutes, and the addition of Mikheyev. Overall, it's still the same inconsistent effort and execution by the forward corps.

So, yeah, it's very clearly both. Demko has been worse, the defense has regressed, the forwards are just as frustrating as they were last season.

For me:

1. The Defence regressing
2. Miller becoming unplayable as a center
3. Goaltending

Why I push back so hard against this idea is that the defence regressing should have been expected. Myers and OEL went from crap to a legit shut down pairing overnight. AND. Expecting you goalie to be year in year out monster is not a plan at all. There is 1 goalie like that in the league and he plays for Tampa. Shesterkin looks like a mere mortal this year, Juuse Saros has been hot and cold, Hellebuyck went through a tough year last season and is now back in form.

So if we are talking about what the management should reasonably expect from our team, compared to last year it should be two things. The D wont be as good and Demko wont be as good. If they entered this season not thinking that (like it seems MS entered this season not thinking that and is now trying to explain that away by putting it all on Demko) its on them.

Now I dont think anybody saw the decline coming that Miller has experienced this year. That I am not blaming them for. But resigning him looks horrific now.



I went through the first 6 or 7 games to watch all the goals Demko let in and honestly, there were mostly weird bounces and horrific defence. I think 2 or 3 I would actually call BAD goals that I would genuinely blame Demko on and they were bad reads. The rest.. tip ins in close, back door tap ins, weird bounces off of players asses, 2nd or 3rd chances off of rebounds.

From there his play deteriorated, he started questioning him self, learned the bad habit to cheat to try to make the save on the cross seam pass instead of playing the shooter..

To be honest, I'm not sure. I could be totally off. There are smarter people then me on (every thing really, but especially) goalies. @mossey3535 @Bad Goalie etc