Post-Game Talk: Glass Ceilings Being Shattered! Pens-3, Buf-uh,0

[LetangInTheSO]

What players were being discussed? Wingers.

So it doesn't matter what your opinion is about people's ability to judge a blueliner or a pivot.

So once again, it doesn't take a great deal of insight and deep understanding of positional play to judge a wingers defensive acumen on this team.

The Pens system is really quite basic in what they ask from their wingers, as are most systems around the league.

I think you give way too much credit to the average fan and their ability to gauge talent (particularly the defensive acumen of NHL forwards). Clearly we disagree.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think you give way too much credit to the average fan and their ability to gauge talent (particularly the defensive acumen of NHL forwards). Clearly we disagree.

Judging talent and the ability to identify specific roles and assignments are completely different things, so let's stick to the topic.

I was actually giving credit to Waffle and think he knows his **** enough to understand the basic defensive assignments of wingers on this team.

We aren't splitting atoms or trying to solve the Additive number theory here.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I don't think there's any comparison between BB and Gibbons on the defensive side. BB is worlds better at the NHL level. I don't know what Gibbons has done in the A, but so far with Crosby he's not provided good support to the D as outlets for moving the puck up, has lost his man more than once, and just generally seems to run around in the defensive zone and end up in odd positions.

I try to watch the guy away from the puck, and he is prone to running around. Maybe he will settle down.

 

[wgknestrick]

Gibbons is absolutely not a better player than Bennett. I know you're basing this totally off of stats, but still.

Bennett has the higher IQ, he's a better passer, he's much better defensively, he's more physical, he's better along the boards, his release is quicker etc. The only thing Gibbons has over Bennett is speed.



I'm not sure where you're getting this idea. When Sid plays poorly he gets absolutely skewered here. If he played the way Geno did last night, no one here would have given him a plus.

That's where we disagree. BB may become a better player, but he certainly hasn't shown it this year. All of these things (that supposedly BB is better than Gibbons at) don't seem to be helping him PRODUCE.

5v5
Gibbons pts/60min: 2.96 (he actually leads our team 4th in the NHL )
Bennett pts/60min: 1.35 (behind Conner, Glass, Vitale, Megna, etc)

I don't think Gibbon's size is holding him back at all. He has PRODUCED, and done it consistently on the top line. That position is his to lose at this point near or long term IMO. He may start slowing down, but give him credit because he has been a savior (along with Megna) for this team at forward.

He needs to get more ice time for sure (as does Megna). To only give him 11min/game is a huge error on the coaching staff. He is basically producing at (what equates to) a PPG level when you account for ice time. Just look above, He is producing the most pts/min of ice time on the entire team. Why not give him more minutes (instead of Glass/Adams/etc)? I would be giving him increasing responsibility until he shows that he can't take it, not blindly assuming he is too small and putting BB there.

He may not be the answer on Crosby's wing long term, but I have seen zero evidence to make me come to that conclusion so far. He is still young and getting better every game. The defensive zone details (which he needs to improve on) will come to him.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

Judging talent and the ability to identify specific roles and assignments are completely different things, so let's stick to the topic.

I was actually giving credit to Waffle and think he knows his **** enough to understand the basic defensive assignments of wingers on this team.

We aren't splitting atoms or trying to solve the Additive number theory here.

Evidently I jumped in an ongoing dialogue. My point is simply that I wouldn't trust the average fan to evaluate BB's defensive work vis-a-vis Gibbons'. Another thing I mentioned to keep in mind is the narrow body of work of both players.

 

[Waffle Fries]

SO YOU THINK I'M NEGATIVE? WELL WATCH THIS:

I think Beau Bennett is like the play making version of James Neal (especially the one who was in Dallas). Physical, gritty, good looking, but instead of a lightning-quick release, he has a high hockey-IQ and can make smart, creative plays.

That he's being compared to Jayson Megna and Brian Gibbons, two players I love and would like to see on the team when we're healthy, barring a trade, is mind-boggling to me. I understand that out of sight, out of mind is a thing, but Beau Bennett is a very good player who has had some unfortunate injury situations.

As long as he returns to the team this year, a lot of people in this thread are going to look back with internet regret.

I don't think I could agree more. It's amazing to me how much Bennett's stock has dropped on this board because of his injury. As a rookie playing in his first year of professional hockey period, he produced at a .54ppg pace in the NHL playing limited minutes mostly on the third and fourth lines.

Not only did he produce, but his play impressed. His passing and vision are incredible. He's strong along the boards, he plays physical, he's willing to block shots, he's strong defensively. He does everything that could be asked of him. The only possible knock against his play is the strength of his shot.

This season, Sid was drowning in November. Bennett revived him. The Washington game was the best game this team has played all season, and Bennett helped Crosby to have offensive zone time for the first time in a month was a big part of it.

That's where we disagree. BB may become a better player, but he certainly hasn't shown it this year. All of these things (that supposedly BB is better than Gibbons at) don't seem to be helping him PRODUCE.

Actually where we disagree is how we evaluate players. You put more value into statistics and I put more value into observing a player's skillset and the situations they've been placed in.

 

[CrozJawz*]

Calling the Pens ticket office now. You want me to put your Cup Finals tickets on hold too?

I don't want to have to fly to Anaheim and Boston...

 

[Valarukar]

Bennett is better defensively. imo, simply because of 1 thing. When he touches the puck in the defensive zone, it's leaving the zone, and not on a clear. I think I could count on 1 hand the amount of times hes iced the puck or not gotten it out of the zone once he gains possession. This is due to a combination of size, hands, and IQ, that most of the players on our team simply don't have.

 

[UnrealMachine]

That's where we disagree. BB may become a better player, but he certainly hasn't shown it this year. All of these things (that supposedly BB is better than Gibbons at) don't seem to be helping him PRODUCE.

5v5
Gibbons pts/60min: 2.96 (he actually leads our team 4th in the NHL )
Bennett pts/60min: 1.35 (behind Conner, Glass, Vitale, Megna, etc)

I don't think Gibbon's size is holding him back at all. He has PRODUCED, and done it consistently on the top line. That position is his to lose at this point near or long term IMO. He may start slowing down, but give him credit because he has been a savior (along with Megna) for this team at forward.

He needs to get more ice time for sure (as does Megna). To only give him 11min/game is a huge error on the coaching staff. He is basically producing at (what equates to) a PPG level when you account for ice time. Just look above, He is producing the most pts/min of ice time on the entire team. Why not give him more minutes (instead of Glass/Adams/etc)? I would be giving him increasing responsibility until he shows that he can't take it, not blindly assuming he is too small and putting BB there.

He may not be the answer on Crosby's wing long term, but I have seen zero evidence to make me come to that conclusion so far. He is still young and getting better every game. The defensive zone details (which he needs to improve on) will come to him.

Gibbons also has the lowest shots against at 5 on 5, so he is either responsible defensively or "plays defense in the offensive zone".

I agree regarding the increased ice time. Beyond that, Gibbons/Megna/Bennett all need to be getting more shots on goal. They each average only ~1 shot per game and that is Craig Adams-level unacceptable. The issue I see with Megna is that he seems to have more trouble working with his teammates than Gibbons/Bennett. It's great that he can produce offense on his own, but it's also unsustainable in the long run. I'd like to see him improve his passing and develop some visible chemistry with Sutter.

 

[JTG]

Give Megna Gibbons' hockey sense and you'd have Sid's winger for the future. Brian Gibbon's has impressed me a great deal.

 

[billybudd]

Gibbons also has the lowest shots against at 5 on 5, so he is either responsible defensively or "plays defense in the offensive zone".

I agree regarding the increased ice time. Beyond that, Gibbons/Megna/Bennett all need to be getting more shots on goal. They each average only ~1 shot per game and that is Craig Adams-level unacceptable. The issue I see with Megna is that he seems to have more trouble working with his teammates than Gibbons/Bennett. It's great that he can produce offense on his own, but it's also unsustainable in the long run. I'd like to see him improve his passing and develop some visible chemistry with Sutter.

There's a bit of Harry Z in Megna, where he doesn't appear to have much of an idea where the rest of his linemates are.

 

[cygnus47]

If Gibbons was 6'1 we'd all have huge erections in our hands.

 

[CrozJawz*]

Caps are DOMINATING the Sabres so far, only 6 minutes into the game. (Ovechkin has 2 goals already)

What will the excuse generator gin up for why the Pens seemed to struggle to beat the worst team in the NHL while the Caps are schooling them???

Sabres played last night...

Enroth is in net instead of Miller...

 

[wej20]

If Gibbons was 6'1 he'd have probably cracked the NHL after 1 year in the AHL.

 

[SteelFish87*]

Figures buffalo uses their scrub goalie tonight so OV can pad his stats

 

[CrozJawz*]

Figures buffalo uses their scrub goalie tonight so OV can pad his stats

In all honesty the Pens seem to regularly make "scrub" goaltenders look like Vezina candidates, so if Enroth would have started last night the Pens probably would have been the ones that got shut out...

 

[SEALBound]

That's where we disagree. BB may become a better player, but he certainly hasn't shown it this year. All of these things (that supposedly BB is better than Gibbons at) don't seem to be helping him PRODUCE.

5v5
Gibbons pts/60min: 2.96 (he actually leads our team 4th in the NHL )
Bennett pts/60min: 1.35 (behind Conner, Glass, Vitale, Megna, etc)

I really like Bennett...but this absolutely kills me. We all believe he's top 6 material (including myself)...but the fact of the matter is...he just has NOT produced at the NHL level. Outproduced by both Gibbons and Megna.

Right now, if I had to choose a Game 7 SCF player...I'm not sure if I choose Megna or Bennett. I'm really not. Add the fact that he's accident prone (better way to put it than injury prone)...and I'm just not sure what to think truth be told.

Hopefully once back he gets a good look on Sid's line, no offense to Gibbons as I think he's been outstanding all things considered.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I really like Bennett...but this absolutely kills me. We all believe he's top 6 material (including myself)...but the fact of the matter is...he just has NOT produced at the NHL level. Outproduced by both Gibbons and Megna.

Why do people act like last season never happened when talking about Bennett's production?

 

[JTG]

Beau Bennett hasn't been given a fraction of the opportunity Gibbons' has, and when Bennett did get his swing, he got hurt.

Not taking anything away from Gibbons' though. He's done damn well in the chances he's been given.

 

[SEALBound]

Why do people act like last season never happened when talking about Bennett's production?

Geez...you're right. Let's see: 12 GP 1G 2A 3P.

On pace for a whopping 20 points.

Can't tell if that was a serious reply.

 

[IcedCapp]

Geez...you're right. Let's see: 12 GP 1G 2A 3P.

On pace for a whopping 20 points.

Can't tell if that was a serious reply.

Now do it again, only read what he wrote

 

[SEALBound]

Beau Bennett hasn't been given a fraction of the opportunity Gibbons' has, and when Bennett did get his swing, he got hurt.

Not taking anything away from Gibbons' though. He's done damn well in the chances he's been given.

This is true which is why I really hope he gets a bonafide shot on Sid's RW. Not one shift here, one there...Glass/Adams/etc the other 99% of the time. Some actual time to get used to Sid and to build chemistry.

Gibbons has most definitely seized his opportunities. I believe Megna has as well...shame when Gibbons was out that Megna didn't get more time with Sid. He earned it IMHO.

 

[SEALBound]

Now do it again, only read what he wrote

Interesting how I chose to read that. 44 P pace. That's Staal territory. $6milx10yr here we come

He did get a decent amount of time with Malkin and Neal IIRC, no?

 

[IcedCapp]

interesting how i chose to read that. 44 p pace. That's staal territory. $6milx10yr here we come

he did get a decent amount of time with malkin and neal iirc, no?

28.2% bennett,b - jeffrey,d - neal,j
26.7% bennett,b - malkin,e - neal,j
16.4% bennett,b - kennedy,t - sutter,b
15% bennett,b - dupuis,p - morrow,b
13.6% adams,c - bennett,b - glass,t

 

[IcedCapp]

Bennett's ES point production last year:


3 37.5% BENNETT,B - DUPUIS,P - MORROW,B
2 25% BENNETT,B - JEFFREY,D - KENNEDY,T
1 12.5% ADAMS,C - BENNETT,B - GLASS,T
1 12.5% BENNETT,B - NEAL,J - SUTTER,B
1 12.5% ADAMS,C - BENNETT,B - CROSBY,S