Post-Game Talk: Glass Ceilings Being Shattered! Pens-3, Buf-uh,0

[LetangInTheSO]

Slowing the game down is not, and never has been, Sid's game. Sid processes the game faster (not better, faster) than any player I've ever seen. If Gretzky and Mario were Chess Grandmasters, Sid's a speed chess champion. See->think->do happens quicker for Sid than for anybody else. Slowing the game down plays away from his strengths, because it gives defenders the time they need to make the proper reads.

That Gibbons can keep up mentally is a good thing (until he gets clobbered out of the lineup by a big D or someone bigger who can also read the game at close to his speed is acquired). You find people that can play with Sid, you don't tell him to play away from his strengths to prop up someone else.

Not entirely sure if I agree with this. Sure, Sid is incredible at playing the game at an insanely fast pace. But I think he's fully capable of being the league's best player even without predicating his success on speed. I don't think, for example, that his game will crumble in his mid-30s if/when he loses some of his foot speed. I think he'd still be the league's best player if his game incorporated more deep cycles rather than primarily relying on speed. Again, he hasn't had the right linemates to really give this a shot, but Bennett could be that guy.

EDIT: To clarify, I agree that Sid's "see > think > do" is absurdly fast. But generating chances off the rush with footspeed isn't the only way to capitalize on that ability. I think he can be equally effective "seeing, thinking, doing" while playing a puck possession game deep in the zone rather than relying on rushes up the ice with Kunitz.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Also, Gibbons is better than Bennett defensively.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Also, Gibbons is better than Bennett defensively.

Really? I think it's the opposite, and significantly so.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Really? I think it's the opposite, and significantly so.

Gibbons is a terrific penalty killer and very responsible in his own zone. That's not a knock on Bennett, but Gibbons really focused on that part of his game and carved himself out a niche in that type of role in WBS.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Gibbons is a terrific penalty killer and very responsible in his own zone. That's not a knock on Bennett, but Gibbons really focused on that part of his game and carved himself out a niche in that type of role in WBS.

I haven't been impressed with Gibbons in his own zone at the NHL level. Particularly last night, his defensive game seemed lacking.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

Really? I think it's the opposite, and significantly so.

I don't trust the average fan's ability to evaluate a guy's offensive talent, let alone defensive talent. I really think that people start to throw the term around simply to push their own agenda.

I will readily admit that I haven't seen enough of either player to have a truly informed opinion of their defensive play. Heck, between them, these guys hardly have 50 NHL games played!

I will say that I've been impressed with Bennett's ability to read the play in his own zone and pick off passes. But that's one of many criteria for evaluating a guy's defensive play.

 

[Fordy]

Also, Gibbons is better than Bennett defensively.

Absolutely not. Gibbons can't win the board battles he can.

 

[PensFanSince1989]

Gibbons impressed me last night in the offensive zone, even though he fumbled the puck often. He needs to work on his d work though, and it worries me that's going to keep him from the #1 RW spot (which I would like to see him stay at until Bennett gets back). Maybe it was just a bad game though.

 

[Zen Arcade]

I think his positioning is better, but his size may hold him back from being as good as he could be.

 

[DegenX]

Regarding Gibbons size, it's interesting that St. Louis only missed 7 games between 2002 and 2012 (I looked it up). Not trying to compare skill sets, just size.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I will say that I've been impressed with Bennett's ability to read the play in his own zone and pick off passes. But that's one of many criteria for evaluating a guy's defensive play.

I like the awareness he seems to have on the ice, it's the little things he does that impress me. Like you mentioned, the way he reads the play to pick off passes, and also the way he always seems to go back and cover for a pinching D, among other things as well. I also love his board play and his willingness to block shots. (Although maybe he should stop with the latter )

 

[nhindian]

If you think Gibbons was bad, then you clearly either didn't watch the game, or don't understand the game. I've already pointed out why he was good, in which I also pointed out that most uneducated fans wouldn't notice the good things he did (thanks for proving me right), so I don't need to do it again.

Cool! So you are attacking a strawman (I never said Gibbons played badly) and begging the question. Want to add another to hit the logical fallacy trifecta?

 

[billybudd]

Not entirely sure if I agree with this. Sure, Sid is incredible at playing the game at an insanely fast pace. But I think he's fully capable of being the league's best player even without predicating his success on speed. I don't think, for example, that his game will crumble in his mid-30s if/when he loses some of his foot speed. I think he'd still be the league's best player if his game incorporated more deep cycles rather than primarily relying on speed. Again, he hasn't had the right linemates to really give this a shot, but Bennett could be that guy.

EDIT: To clarify, I agree that Sid's "see > think > do" is absurdly fast. But generating chances off the rush with footspeed isn't the only way to capitalize on that ability. I think he can be equally effective "seeing, thinking, doing" while playing a puck possession game deep in the zone rather than relying on rushes up the ice with Kunitz.

Footspeed helps, but it's not what I'm referring to. Speed of action is Sid's strength. If you've got him (or anyone else on his line) delaying, you're playing away from his strengths, which should never, ever be done with a player of his caliber.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

Gibbons seems like a solid short term fill in for the top 6. He has no future here.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

20 lbs? That's quite a lot. They're both listed as 195 on the website. I'm sure those numbers are exaggerated, but I don't think they'd do it for one guy and not another. Plus I've seen one or two pics of Beau in a t-shirt and shorts. I'm 6'2" and skinny and he pretty much looks like me but sculpted like if I got paid to workout and play hockey every day. Slightly bigger shoulders, but that's about it.

Megna isn't even at 190 I'm almost 100% sure of that.

Megna from all I've read plays around 185-7 and BB plays around 205+.

TSN has BB at 207:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=7945

BB is a big kid. He was skinny coming out, so I assume people keep thinking he is that small. He has put on a good 30 lbs since he was drafted at 175.

I was shocked at how big he looks this season compared to when he played in the B. But he is not a small guy by any stretch of the imagination and he is built a lot bigger than Megna.

 

[mpp9]

Megna isn't even at 190 I'm almost 100% sure of that.

Megna from all I've read plays around 185-7 and BB plays around 205+.

TSN has BB at 207:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=7945

BB is a big kid. He was skinny coming out, so I assume people keep thinking he is that small. He has put on a good 30 lbs since he was drafted at 175.

I was shocked at how big he looks this season compared to when he played in the B. But he is not a small guy by any stretch of the imagination and he is built a lot bigger than Megna.

I think it's b/c people don't recognize that he's a legit 6'2. He doesn't have to be a tank to be 205+ at that height.

What's Kule at? Like 215-220? Similar height. And that guy can't possibly be more of a tank and still skate like he does.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think it's b/c people don't recognize that he's a legit 6'2. He doesn't have to be a tank to be 205+ at that height.

What's Kule at? Like 215-220? Similar height. And that guy can't possibly be more of a tank and still skate like he does.

BB when he lines guys up on the boards absolutely obliterates them. Smaller guys can deliver big hits as well, but you can see the weight behind his hits. It's pretty obvious, honestly.

You can also see he is a pretty big guy when he is simply skating on the ice. Calling him slight or anything of that nature is just way off IMHO.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Megna isn't even at 190 I'm almost 100% sure of that.

Megna from all I've read plays around 185-7 and BB plays around 205+.

TSN has BB at 207:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=7945

BB is a big kid. He was skinny coming out, so I assume people keep thinking he is that small. He has put on a good 30 lbs since he was drafted at 175.

I was shocked at how big he looks this season compared to when he played in the B. But he is not a small guy by any stretch of the imagination and he is built a lot bigger than Megna.

In his few shifts last night when he handled the puck, Megna kind of reminded me of Marcantuoni and how both guys can't yet seem to process the game at the speed they play at. A couple of times Megna's speed seemed to be a bit too much for his brain to process what to do with the puck.

 

[MrBurghundy]

BB when he lines guys up on the boards absolutely obliterates them. Smaller guys can deliver big hits as well, but you can see the weight behind his hits. It's pretty obvious, honestly.

You can also see he is a pretty big guy when he is simply skating on the ice. Calling him slight or anything of that nature is just way off IMHO.

I always found it hilarious when Bennett would light some dude up and Steigy and Errey would completely ignore it. Then when Glass threw a ****** late hit they had a circle jerk over it and gave him the mythical "Subway Sandwich of the Game."

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I don't trust the average fan's ability to evaluate a guy's offensive talent, let alone defensive talent. I really think that people start to throw the term around simply to push their own agenda.

I will readily admit that I haven't seen enough of either player to have a truly informed opinion of their defensive play. Heck, between them, these guys hardly have 50 NHL games played!

I will say that I've been impressed with Bennett's ability to read the play in his own zone and pick off passes. But that's one of many criteria for evaluating a guy's defensive play.

Evaluating a winger's defensive acumen is pretty much the easiest thing a casual fan can do.

Comparatively, pivots and blueliners have much more responsibility in their own end.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

Evaluating a winger's defensive acumen is pretty much the easiest thing a casual fan can do.

Comparatively, pivots and blueliners have much more responsibility in their own end.

Firstly, I never specifically said "a winger's defensive acumen," but rather, "a player's defensive acumen." Even so, I disagree with you. I have no faith whatsoever in casual fans' ability to evaluate talent, and I'm suspicious of even passionate fans' ability to do same. If you want proof, take a look at what people have to say about players on the main board. Half of what's said is shoddy conjecture based on small sample sizes, and the other half is usually tainted by bias or plain ignorance.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I always found it hilarious when Bennett would light some dude up and Steigy and Errey would completely ignore it. Then when Glass threw a ****** late hit they had a circle jerk over it and gave him the mythical "Subway Sandwich of the Game."

They clearly know what their job is.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

In his few shifts last night when he handled the puck, Megna kind of reminded me of Marcantuoni and how both guys can't yet seem to process the game at the speed they play at. A couple of times Megna's speed seemed to be a bit too much for his brain to process what to do with the puck.

A few posters got testy with me when I said he may lack hockey sense, but I think most of them can now see where I was coming from. I love the guy, but he has some flaws he needs to work on.

Gibbons on the other hand has learned to harness his speed and change gears. He also slows things down and looks over the ice before dishing off. With Megna, you can see he wants to dish off before he is ready. That I am hoping is a nerves thing, not a lack of hockey sense.

Megna also has a habit of losing pucks in his feet, because he is taking off too fast.

It's going to take him time to learn how to use his speed and not rush things. When he learns how to dummy the blueliner in 1-1 situations and bring the guy down a gear and then catch him flat footed, it will be fun as hell to watch.

I always found it hilarious when Bennett would light some dude up and Steigy and Errey would completely ignore it. Then when Glass threw a ****** late hit they had a circle jerk over it and gave him the mythical "Subway Sandwich of the Game."

The Glass situation is frustrating. He has a decent game or two and it just convinces DB he is right about the guy. When he shows he can cycle the puck and help sustain offense down low (which is absolutely critical to playoff success), I'll continue to consider him a liability.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Firstly, I never specifically said "a winger's defensive acumen," but rather, "a player's defensive acumen." Even so, I disagree with you. I have no faith whatsoever in casual fans' ability to evaluate talent, and I'm suspicious of even passionate fans' ability to do same. If you want proof, take a look at what people have to say about players on the main board. Half of what's said is shoddy conjecture based on small sample sizes, and the other half is usually tainted by bias or plain ignorance.

What players were being discussed? Wingers.

So it doesn't matter what your opinion is about people's ability to judge a blueliner or a pivot.

So once again, it doesn't take a great deal of insight and deep understanding of positional play to judge a wingers defensive acumen on this team.

The Pens system is really quite basic in what they ask from their wingers, as are most systems around the league.

 

[IcedCapp]

SO YOU THINK I'M NEGATIVE? WELL WATCH THIS:

I think Beau Bennett is like the play making version of James Neal (especially the one who was in Dallas). Physical, gritty, good looking, but instead of a lightning-quick release, he has a high hockey-IQ and can make smart, creative plays.

That he's being compared to Jayson Megna and Brian Gibbons, two players I love and would like to see on the team when we're healthy, barring a trade, is mind-boggling to me. I understand that out of sight, out of mind is a thing, but Beau Bennett is a very good player who has had some unfortunate injury situations.

As long as he returns to the team this year, a lot of people in this thread are going to look back with internet regret.