Give Tangradi one more shot?

[JQR]

Here is what I have observed:

Tangradi: Potential potential. Lots of folks talking about the potential that this kid has, but he looks like a deer in headlights on the 2nd line. His best play was creating a passing lane to allow someone else to score.

Boychuk: Reads the 2nd line VERY well. Has great positioning and situational awareness. Has had several scoring chances but has not yet capitalized.

So when I see people wanting Tangradi over Boychuk, I am very confused. What am I missing here?

And to be fair, I don't think Tangradi has no career in the NHL. I think he probably would have worked very well on Staal's line back when Malkin and Crosby were out. I don't think he works well with superstars. Less finesse, more grind.

 

[TorstenFrings]

Didn´t vote in the poll, because it isn´t that I necessarily think ET should not play in the NHL so much as that he simply should not play on Malkin´s line. I am all on the Jeffreys bandwaggon for now.

 

[specialized]

I would really like to see tangradi on sids line with duper, just for a game or two and give him around 12-14 mins per game.

I really think they are going to send him packing at the trade deadline.

 

[Fordy]

Here is what I have observed:

Tangradi: Potential potential. Lots of folks talking about the potential that this kid has, but he looks like a deer in headlights on the 2nd line. His best play was creating a passing lane to allow someone else to score.

Boychuk: Reads the 2nd line VERY well. Has great positioning and situational awareness. Has had several scoring chances but has not yet capitalized.

So when I see people wanting Tangradi over Boychuk, I am very confused. What am I missing here?

And to be fair, I don't think Tangradi has no career in the NHL. I think he probably would have worked very well on Staal's line back when Malkin and Crosby were out. I don't think he works well with superstars. Less finesse, more grind.

There are a lot of people who were adamant from the moment we picked up Boychuk that it would fail and it was a terrible idea. These same people just get louder and whinier every game he doesn't get a point. These are the same people who called the Neal trade a bust before his second season here. The simple fact is that Boychuk is miles ahead of Jeffrey and Tangradi especially, and no matter how good of friends you are in real life with someone it doesn't mean they should get the opportunity over someone who has a real chance at doing well if given more than five games.

Boychuk should be glued to that line until a trade brings someone else in. He looks exactly like Neal in his first 20 games. He's in all the right places and makes the passing plays. He creates chances. He's not as skilled as Neal but the points will come just like they did for him.

Anyone who thinks Tangradi or Jeffrey should be playing over him had their mind already set before he touched the ice.

 

[Kovifan27]

I've said it for a year, Tangradi isn't ready for the top six. He is at least a couple of yrs away, but people don't want to hear that. It's easier to call him names and write him off.

I expect people on here to act stupid about him, especially since few have ever seen the time it really takes for a top six guy to develop.

However, Pens mgmt and DB should of known better than to throw him into a role he isn't ready for. They wasted a year of his development last year in place of retreads and waiver wire pickups. He should of been rolled out on the fourth line, shift after shift last season. Then he would of had a secured role on the team this year playing on the fourth line.

He should of been allowed to slowly work his way up, make mistakes, and learn. Not be thrown out on a line with Malkin of all players.

His last game he played his role well on the fourth line and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to re-watch the tape.

Of course it's easier to say he sucks and call him names. It's what the cool kids do.

This is one of the better posts on ET. Having him sitting isnt doing a damn thing. He should be on the 4th line. He some time to go before he can adapt to first/second line duties.

He will never be a consistent producer unless he's put on the PP. He makes his money in front of the net on the PP or he doesn't at all.

Also, I didn't watch today's game but all the previous game it seems like Malkin & Neal play so great together they almost ignore the other guy. Tangradi didn't get a pass until three games in.

The Malkin/Neal chemistry is another problem. It's almost like that dont want to involve another player. Malkin yelling at Tangradi was a joke. No real training camp no experience with Malkin what do you expect? How long did it take Neal to produce here?

Jeffrey did alright in his game on the line. Boychuk is doing alright. They both play a different game than ET.

Overall I think the whole 2nd line suffered from no training camp/preseason. As of now though having Jeffrey/Tangradi in the press box is useless.

 

[SEALBound]

Boychuk may not be racking up the points...but at least he's not in the way.

Tangradi brought down that line. He just didn't have the creativity or offensive awareness to fit with that line.

Jeffrey wasn't bad but not better or worse than Boychuk.

Boychuk has the speed, IQ, and energy to work with that line.

 

[MurphyDump]

He will never be a consistent producer unless he's put on the PP. He makes his money in front of the net on the PP or he doesn't at all.

Also, I didn't watch today's game but all the previous game it seems like Malkin & Neal play so great together they almost ignore the other guy. Tangradi didn't get a pass until three games in.

Tangradi put himself in position for a pass twice from what I can remember. Once he fanned on it completely, and the second, Geno chose a higher risk pass to Neal resulting in a goal.

Boychuk may not have scored, but he's put himself in the right areas to score and has had some chances and at least kept offensive flow somewhat alive. I don't have a problem continuing to give him some more time there.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I voted 'yes' but I don't think it should be on Geno's line.

I really with Shero didn't sign Glass so ET or DJ could get some time on the 3rd line.

 

[JQR]

There are a lot of people who were adamant from the moment we picked up Boychuk that it would fail and it was a terrible idea. These same people just get louder and whinier every game he doesn't get a point. These are the same people who called the Neal trade a bust before his second season here. The simple fact is that Boychuk is miles ahead of Jeffrey and Tangradi especially, and no matter how good of friends you are in real life with someone it doesn't mean they should get the opportunity over someone who has a real chance at doing well if given more than five games.

Boychuk should be glued to that line until a trade brings someone else in. He looks exactly like Neal in his first 20 games. He's in all the right places and makes the passing plays. He creates chances. He's not as skilled as Neal but the points will come just like they did for him.

Anyone who thinks Tangradi or Jeffrey should be playing over him had their mind already set before he touched the ice.

Boychuk may not be racking up the points...but at least he's not in the way.

Tangradi brought down that line. He just didn't have the creativity or offensive awareness to fit with that line.

Jeffrey wasn't bad but not better or worse than Boychuk.

Boychuk has the speed, IQ, and energy to work with that line.

Tangradi put himself in position for a pass twice from what I can remember. Once he fanned on it completely, and the second, Geno chose a higher risk pass to Neal resulting in a goal.

Boychuk may not have scored, but he's put himself in the right areas to score and has had some chances and at least kept offensive flow somewhat alive. I don't have a problem continuing to give him some more time there.

I quoted and bolded all of you purely for my own selfish reasons. It feels good to read that other folks see the same things I do.

 

[Fire Shero*]

Has anyone seen that South Park episode about the election in 2004? They had to pick between a turd sandwich and a giant doooosh. I can really relate to that episode after seeing Boychuk and Tangradi play with Neal and Geno.

Some teams need to fall out of the playoff race fast and give up on the season...The solution to this problem is not playing on the Penguins right now.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

When did he get his first chance? Ha.

Either **** or get off the pot with Tangradi. The guy still hasn't gotten a true chance, at this point I don't even care. Just sick of the same **** every year. Either play him long enough or cut him loose. This whole 5 game sample size and then benching certainly doesn't help someone's career. I don't care if he scored ten goals in those 5 games....it's still a **** amount of games to see what you have. Lestestu lit it up early a few years back ...that didn't pan out here. Anyways, some act like he's happy Gilmore out there, stumbling all over the ice..yet the guy still hasn't gotten a true chance.



By far the weirdest situation I've ever seen with a prospect on the Pens.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I voted 'yes' but I don't think it should be on Geno's line.

I really with Shero didn't sign Glass so ET or DJ could get some time on the 3rd line.

I like Glass -- and from a depth perspective its always good to have too many guys than not enough -- but I do wish we had an open bottom 6 spot for these guys. Apparently Disco doesn't even see that as an option though.

 

[eXile59]

I don't see the any finish in Boychuk. If anything it's time to give DJ a shot again.

 

[#66]

Move on... He's just not a good fit in an up tempo system.

 

[Tender Rip]

Boychuk: Reads the 2nd line VERY well. Has great positioning and situational awareness. Has had several scoring chances but has not yet capitalized.

I am about to cry.

 

[Tender Rip]

There are a lot of people who were adamant from the moment we picked up Boychuk that it would fail and it was a terrible idea. These same people just get louder and whinier every game he doesn't get a point.

Not every game Boychuk doesn't get a point. With every passing game that the LINE doesn't contribute even strength.
With every game that our two elite players, Malkin in primis, provides room and scoring opportunities for the third wheel rather than the other way around. If you don't see that this is what is happening.... can't help you.

These are the same people who called the Neal trade a bust before his second season here.

Bullocks.

Anyone who thinks Tangradi or Jeffrey should be playing over him had their mind already set before he touched the ice.

Indeed. Because Boychuck has nice attributes, just not the ones the second line needs. I could see him work with Sid and Kunitz, perhaps. I could see him take Kennedy's role. Fine. But there is a reason I and others said that it was just another example of Bylsma showing no clue as to what Malkin needs to get going, when immediately Boychuck was pimped as an option for that line. Because it is not going to be a solution.
After five games one would think that you'd tag on rather than going jubilant because Boychuck "is getting chances!"
I couldn't care less if Jeffrey doesn't get any chances if he - like he did in his game with Malkin at the Rangers - creates room for our elite players so that they can contribute.
It is the same reason a guy like Kulemin is so desired by many of us. Because even if he doesn't score, he is going to do all we could hope for to allow Malkin and Neal to dominate. That is always going to be a hell of a lot important than anything any other third wheel is to bring to that line.

 

[JQR]

I am about to cry.

Amazing contribution to the thread.

 

[Tender Rip]

Amazing contribution to the thread.

Look at the very next post if you want an argument.

 

[JQR]

Look at the very next post if you want an argument.

Those arguments just tell me that you see something completely different than I do. Best to just agree to disagree at this point.

 

[Captain Hook]

I don't think he's good enough to crack the lineup currently. He's obviously going to need to wait for an injury to get back in and even then Jeffrey will likely get back in first.

I really don't care to see Tangradi with Malkin and Neal again. He looks invisible and in over his head with those two, imo. I'd like to see him with Sid but the Pens seem married to the Kunitz/Crosby/Dupuis line so it ain't happening unless an injury breaks that line up.

I do like him long-term as a big body bottom 6 guy but the days of having high hopes for him in the top 6 are long gone for me. I'm just not sure he will amount to anything here. We aren't really in need of more bottom 6 guys.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Boychuk looks like he can have a NHL career, but I'm still not seeing what is getting certain people so excited. He looks as good as Bourque and Conner did. All three flashed decent skill, but if you are a smaller guy, you better have exceptional skill to be a top six guy in the NHL.

The knock on him is production and that he lacks a scoring touch. So it wasn't encouraging to see him fan on an open net when it was a 1-0 game. 2-0 makes it a completely different game. I don't think it's asking too much for him to bury that, given the extended look he has been given.

I guess I still can't understand how Jeffrey worked his ass off for this org and did all of the right things, then looks better than any of the revolving door wingers, including Boychuk, but he gets rewarded with a seat on the bench.

Boychuk did nothing to deserve this shot except be drafted high and not play well enough with Carolina to stick (and be placed on waivers). People on here harp on production and Jeffrey has easily out scored Boychuk at the NHL level, playing with less talented line mates, and in about twenty less games.

I just really hate the message this org is sending to a guy like Jeffrey and wish Boychuk would do something to justify why Jeffrey was benched.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Geno's line has always clicked when it had three things on it. Geno as the playmaker, Neal, Sykora or Feds as the shooter and Malone, Talbot or Kunitz as the puck retriever.

I think Boychuk could be a fine player. I don't think he's a good fit on that 2nd line. He has the same major problem that TK and Sullivan had. He is redundant. TK and Boychuk both play the scoring role Neal plays, except they aren't as good at it. Sullivan played the role Geno plays, except he wasn't as good at it. It makes sense that Sully did better with Dupuis and Staal and its certainly not because they are a better line. He got to be the playmaker to Dupuis puck retrieval and Staal's scoring.

Right now, Boychuk is getting a lot of scoring chances. He's good at that. But chances don't win games, goals do. I would rather Neal get 1 or 2 scoring chances a game than Boychuk get 3 or 4. That would create more goals for our team. But Boychuk does nothing to help create chances for Neal or Geno. He needs them to create chances for him. He doesn't win puck battles very well. He isn't a great playmaker. And he has trouble standing up to top line defenses.

And ya, I hear the "well Neal was like this when he first got here too!" argument. Neal was not able to play the role we brought him in to play until his second year with us. He was brought in to be a shooter and the number 2 guy on his line. Playing with Letestu and Kovy he was always the main focus of the opposing defense. He had to create his own offense. That's not his game. He is a perfect complimentary scorer to a great playmaking center. Boychuk is playing the role we brought him in to play; but in his defense I think we brought him in to play a role he is a bad fit for. I don't think he's a bad player, I think he's playing in the wrong spot.

With the current roster (and ignoring the bench,) I think I would try switching him with Dupuis. Dupuis is the 2nd best puck retriever on the team after Kunitz; so that would be a solid upgrade for Neal and Geno. It would give Boychuk a chance to be the scorer on a line where the other two guys are better suited to be playmaker (Sid) and puck retriever (Kunitz) instead of missing a role. I don't think its a long term solution to anything, but its a better short term solution. Long term, I think Boychuk is a 3rd liner. I think his only chance of being in the line-up come playoff time is if we move TK but still have Dupuis in the top 6 so Boychuk can slide back into TK's spot.

Please, don't call me a hater. This is all coming from someone who was happy with the Boychuk pickup. I still am. I think he makes it that much easier to trade TK. And honestly, there's no reason for us not to try this kind of a pickup. I was also a big supporter of Neal through his first stint here. But if he's going to stay on Geno and Neal's line, I would rather give Jeffrey another shot there. Though I still go back to what I said before the season started: I believe Cooke is the best player we have (outside of Kunitz and Dupuis) to fill the left wing spot with Geno and Neal.

tl;dr Boychuk is playing a role he is ill-suited for. Try him somewhere else in the line-up.

 

[JQR]

Geno's line has always clicked when it had three things on it. Geno as the playmaker, Neal, Sykora or Feds as the shooter and Malone, Talbot or Kunitz as the puck retriever.

I think Boychuk could be a fine player. I don't think he's a good fit on that 2nd line. He has the same major problem that TK and Sullivan had. He is redundant. TK and Boychuk both play the scoring role Neal plays, except they aren't as good at it. Sullivan played the role Geno plays, except he wasn't as good at it. It makes sense that Sully did better with Dupuis and Staal and its certainly not because they are a better line. He got to be the playmaker to Dupuis puck retrieval and Staal's scoring.

Right now, Boychuk is getting a lot of scoring chances. He's good at that. But chances don't win games, goals do. I would rather Neal get 1 or 2 scoring chances a game than Boychuk get 3 or 4. That would create more goals for our team. But Boychuk does nothing to help create chances for Neal or Geno. He needs them to create chances for him. He doesn't win puck battles very well. He isn't a great playmaker. And he has trouble standing up to top line defenses.

And ya, I hear the "well Neal was like this when he first got here too!" argument. Neal was not able to play the role we brought him in to play until his second year with us. He was brought in to be a shooter and the number 2 guy on his line. Playing with Letestu and Kovy he was always the main focus of the opposing defense. He had to create his own offense. That's not his game. He is a perfect complimentary scorer to a great playmaking center. Boychuk is playing the role we brought him in to play; but in his defense I think we brought him in to play a role he is a bad fit for. I don't think he's a bad player, I think he's playing in the wrong spot.

With the current roster (and ignoring the bench,) I think I would try switching him with Dupuis. Dupuis is the 2nd best puck retriever on the team after Kunitz; so that would be a solid upgrade for Neal and Geno. It would give Boychuk a chance to be the scorer on a line where the other two guys are better suited to be playmaker (Sid) and puck retriever (Kunitz) instead of missing a role. I don't think its a long term solution to anything, but its a better short term solution. Long term, I think Boychuk is a 3rd liner. I think his only chance of being in the line-up come playoff time is if we move TK but still have Dupuis in the top 6 so Boychuk can slide back into TK's spot.

Please, don't call me a hater. This is all coming from someone who was happy with the Boychuk pickup. I still am. I think he makes it that much easier to trade TK. And honestly, there's no reason for us not to try this kind of a pickup. I was also a big supporter of Neal through his first stint here. But if he's going to stay on Geno and Neal's line, I would rather give Jeffrey another shot there. Though I still go back to what I said before the season started: I believe Cooke is the best player we have (outside of Kunitz and Dupuis) to fill the left wing spot with Geno and Neal.

tl;dr Boychuk is playing a role he is ill-suited for. Try him somewhere else in the line-up.

The first line isn't broken, so I don't see them touching it. On the other hand, the third and fourth lines aren't broken either, but I think it's more likely that they will shake up one of those lines before they change the first.

I'm still not convinced that Boychuk isn't the answer, I'll let this afternoon's game decide for me. I don't agree that all he can do is get open and shoot; but today I'll watch from a more critical perspective.

I don't know, there are quite a few options, but they require moving people off of lines that are working well at the moment. I would say that still makes more sense than trying to fit a square peg into a round hole on that second line (assuming Boychuk turns out to be a square peg).

 

[Ogrezilla]

The first line isn't broken, so I don't see them touching it. On the other hand, the third and fourth lines aren't broken either, but I think it's more likely that they will shake up one of those lines before they change the first.

I'm still not convinced that Boychuk isn't the answer, I'll let this afternoon's game decide for me. I don't agree that all he can do is get open and shoot; but today I'll watch from a more critical perspective.

I don't know, there are quite a few options, but they require moving people off of lines that are working well at the moment. I would say that still makes more sense than trying to fit a square peg into a round hole on that second line (assuming Boychuk turns out to be a square peg).

He does a fair amount to create chances for himself. He's a good skater and he seems smart. But he doesn't have the size to be the guy winning puck battles for that line and I really think that will create more scoring for the team than any amount of production Boychuk is capable of. I think he could play the same spot TK plays with very similar results but we aren't going to be benching TK for him. And I think he might work better swapped with Dupuis. Its a safe enough move that I think it could be worth trying. It could help Geno's line, it could help Boychuk and it wouldn't leave Sid completely stranded like taking Kunitz from him would. That said, I doubt we ever see it.

 

[No Chance of Fluerys]

ET hasn't shown me anything at all, I think he's had chance after chance on this roster, but all he will really be in the league is a 3rd or 4th line big body. I think with bennett possibly coming up soon, you throw kunitz back down on the line with Malkin and Neal, and you give BB a chance with crosby. I think he could be the scoring touch that sid needs on the line, and you bring back the best line in hockey from last year.