Give it 20

[Stoneman89]

I agree with this. I do worry about long term player morale (Hall, RNH) if we scrape the bottom again for 82 games. But my biggest concern is that if DE gets fired early, and Craig Ramsay takes over but the team still ends up on the bottom, we could see a 3rd coach starting the 2015-16 season. And that's too much churn, in my opinion. There is a significant cost to every transition. If we do end up near the bottom (and I still don't think we will) I expect a wholesale replacement of management, per Halibut, in the off-season.

I can't see that as being a bad thing the way it's been going the last few years. And keeping a crappy coach just because we're trying to promote stability is not a good thing either. Just more of the same.

 

[nexttothemoon]

A good owner would put an ultimatum down... either the team is in a playoff spot by November 1st... or the gifts that get handed out are pink slips for EVERYONE... from management on down.

Edit... to hell with Xmas... November 1st.

 

[Stoneman89]

Although I kind of liked Tambellini's "be patient" approach during his time period here. He proved he was lousy at identifying complimentary NHL talent. When MacT was hired, he gave me the impression that he was going to be a bull in a china shop, pulling off crazy trades like acquiring Tavares and Chara by any means necessary to take us to the promise land. Instead we got something that was more like Tambellini Mk.2 with slightly better ability to identify NHL talent, but still pretty useless at making the right moves at the right times... or more simply put, a complete lack of ability to make moves.

I thought Renney should have had a second season though. He made progress with the group, was mathematically in the playoff hunt at trade deadline, and was making some very good progress with Yakupov. Oh and he was in the bottom 10 spots in the league for goals against...

Except Renney was never the coach of Yakupov, nor was his team in the hunt at playoff time. I believe you're thinking of Krueger.

 

[17Kurri]

Awesome. So rather than having a team that is a little better (on paper) that clearly has a coach with no clue and a GM that has made a few good decions and a few bad ones, you yearn for the days of yore when we had entitled vets, a do nothing GM (say what you will about MacT but at least he has tried. Failed in many regards, mostly on D, but tried), a lineup full of Gagners and full expectations of losing.

Are you for real? At least today we have the expectation that we should be winning and not being content with tanking. Tanking is for losers. That we are tanking now is not on purpose but by pitiful management. That is an attitudinal shift that is very significant. But yeah, let's go back to wanting to be losers. You want to cheer for a losing team it seems because the expectations, even though dashed, of cheering for a team to win are too much to bare.

C'mon, man, you can't actually think that, up to this point at least, MacT and Eakins have done a better job than Tambo and Renney/Krueger, can you? It's a wash, at the very best.

Tambo and Renney/Krueger started off with Moreau, Staios, Pisani, Horcoff, and Hemsky. A team clearly full of entitled vets and clearly on the way down.

MacT and Eakins started off with Eberle, Hall, RNH, Yakupov, and Schultz. A team full of potential and supposedly on its way up.

Sorry, you don't have to like what Tambo and Renney/Krueger did, but saying that MacT and Eakins are doing better is clearly a fallacy.

 

[UnrefinedCrude]

I agree.



We're not even 10 games deep. Lets take a breath and see what happens.

That would be a valid opinion if what we're seeing wasn't a direct continuation of the prior year (and several before it.)

We're closing in on 90 games for Eakins.

His complete bungling of the preseason, after admitting that last year he didn't do enough to get the team ready, means he gets no slack.

Enough is enough. these guys have gotten a pass, several passes. It's time to take Ole' Yeller out behind the barn.

 

[Horseradish]

Ah you are overrating the deals he made. He made minor deals that were slight improvements not huge difference makers and that on-ice leadership you complain about are all his acquisitions.

Umm, look at the last lineup during the Tambo era:

Hall Nuge Eberle
Paajarvi Gagner Hemsky
Smyth Horc Yakupov
Petrell Belanger Jones

Petry-Smid
Schultz-Schultz
Whitney/Fistric/Potter

Dubnyk
Khabi

Look at it today:
Hall Nuge Eberle
Pouliot Drai Yak
Perron Gordon Purcell
Hendricks Arco Joensuu

Marincin-Petry
Nikitin-Fayne
Ference-Schultz

Fasth
Scrivens

He's upgraded 2LW, 3LW, 4LW, 3C, 4C, 3RW, 4RW, 2LD, 2RD, 3LD, and definitely one goalie, maybe both, in 1.5 years through moves he has directly made. The TWO areas where he has downgraded is 2C and coaching.

If this team doesn't get any better, and quick, he needs to fire the coach. And if this team stays horrible and he keeps the coach, he needs to go with him.

But ON PAPER, he's made the right kind of moves, he just needs to make more of them (ie, 2C).

 

[PinSeeker]

That would be a valid opinion if what we're seeing wasn't a direct continuation of the prior year (and several before it.)

We're closing in on 90 games for Eakins.

His complete bungling of the preseason, after admitting that last year he didn't do enough to get the team ready, means he gets no slack.

Enough is enough. these guys have gotten a pass, several passes. It's time to take Ole' Yeller out behind the barn.

I get it. It's frustrating as all hell.

But the reality is we are 4 games in. In the last 30 games last year, we went 14-13-3. Not horrendous.

 

[missinthejets]

C'mon, man, you can't actually think that, up to this point at least, MacT and Eakins have done a better job than Tambo and Renney/Krueger, can you? It's a wash, at the very best.

Tambo and Renney/Krueger started off with Moreau, Staios, Pisani, Horcoff, and Hemsky. A team clearly full of entitled vets and clearly on the way down.

MacT and Eakins started off with Eberle, Hall, RNH, Yakupov, and Schultz. A team full of potential and supposedly on its way up.

Sorry, you don't have to like what Tambo and Renney/Krueger did, but saying that MacT and Eakins are doing better is clearly a fallacy.

I think MacT has done a better job than Tambo did everywhere except hiring coaches. Too bad they couldn't just go back and have Renney coaching the team now, guarantee it wouldn't be as bad as Eakins is.

 

[Halibut]

He's upgraded 2LW, 3LW, 4LW, 3C, 4C, 3RW, 4RW, 2LD, 2RD, 3LD, and definitely one goalie, maybe both, in 1.5 years through moves he has directly made. The TWO areas where he has downgraded is 2C and coaching.

If this team doesn't get any better, and quick, he needs to fire the coach. And if this team stays horrible and he keeps the coach, he needs to go with him.

But ON PAPER, he's made the right kind of moves, he just needs to make more of them (ie, 2C).

As I said marginal upgrades. We'd probably be better off if he held on to Horcoff rather than trading him for nothing. A veteran presence at center would help this team even if he didnt add much offence any more. Purcell over Hemsky is pretty much a wash, I havent seen his size adding anything to the team. At this point Nikitin hasnt shown to be an upgrade over Nick Schultz and his past history didnt suggest he was. The goaltending is still not good enough to make much difference here they were a longshot to be anything more than adequate and it's not surprising they've faltered.

You said the moves he made make the team a lot better, I dont think so. He's done several moves that improve the team a little bit or maybe break even. He's changed the team but he didnt fix the big holes. A team that has been as bad as this has big holes to fill and we cant expect big improvements by making small improvements to depth positions. Until he fixes the big problems on this team we're at best going to improve by a few spots in the standings and it's not a huge surprise if we have periods where we slide like this.

 

[Seedling]

I want to see a team that's accountable, properly managed, and not run by buttpatting ****goofs whose glasses are so fogged up Mr. Magoo thinks they should watch where they're going. This team is so horribly managed at every level it's impossible to see the light at the end of the tunnel. To think MacT and Eakins were both hired without even looking at other individuals just tells you how little of a clue the Oilers as a collective have.

But what really gets me is that despite being better on paper, these teams have actually been as bad if not worse than the Tambo tank teams. We're giving up 5+ goals a game to teams that aren't even offensive dynamos. And nobody is being held responsible for it. When Tambo was fired we all were so happy that the culprit was finally gone and better times were ahead. ...It seems we were wrong.

MacTavish has actually managed to mismanage this team more than Tambo did. And unless he pulls some gutsy moves his seat is going to get very hot very quickly. I won't be satisfied with just another coaching casualty.

I mean what kind of moron trades away a center from a team with already pitiful depth and then never replaces him?

Oh sure, MacT has tried to make this team better but the fact of the matter is he hasn't. Outside of Perron all of his acquisitions have been mediocre to Ference. And the fact he continues to employ his braindead coach is the biggest indictment of all.

I have absolutely no faith in Mr. Lowe-hey or MacRandy to clean up the mess they've made and the sooner they remove themselves from the Oiler Park the better.

Thanks for that. We pretty much agree on what needs to happen.

I do think a competent coach would have made last year's team and this team look better than it has but that's revisionist at this point. I'm still not going to paint all of MacT's acquisitions as busts because, really, how can you tell with a coach who looks like he doesn't even know how to teach a breakout?

Having said that, I agree that a full house cleaning is in order. I'll be watching closely to see if Katz has learned anything. So we all will be I suspect.

 

[Seedling]

C'mon, man, you can't actually think that, up to this point at least, MacT and Eakins have done a better job than Tambo and Renney/Krueger, can you? It's a wash, at the very best.

Tambo and Renney/Krueger started off with Moreau, Staios, Pisani, Horcoff, and Hemsky. A team clearly full of entitled vets and clearly on the way down.

MacT and Eakins started off with Eberle, Hall, RNH, Yakupov, and Schultz. A team full of potential and supposedly on its way up.

Sorry, you don't have to like what Tambo and Renney/Krueger did, but saying that MacT and Eakins are doing better is clearly a fallacy.

That's great but I didn't say that. Perhaps I should have been more clear.

What I was saying is that the team as a whole, in my opinion, has a much better roster to use than it did two or three years ago. Eakins is such a terrible coach he can't even make use of it. That every single player has regressed under Eakins seems very clear at this point.

What I am saying is that I am not completely sold on the idea that all of MacT's acquisitions are either good or bad. On paper they looked pretty decent as a whole. Sure there are some obvious screw ups in Nikitin and Ference, but I honestly think it's pretty fair to say those are magnified by Eakins inability to coach. I've never seen anything like it. The fact that Renney and Kreuger did better with worse line ups is proof of that I think. It is to me.

Now, that doesn't let MacT off of the hook. I'm done with him but I'm not going to say that all the guys he brought in need to go either. I don't know what all of them are because it's my belief that Eakins has demonstrated beyond the shadow of a doubt that he has no clue how to run a team, pick proper match ups and teach any system whatsoever.

So at the end of the day, Eakins is abysmal and MacT needs to go too but I'm not going to say all of his moves were/are bad because it's the worst kind of environment to evaluate the true merits of those changes. That environment is created by Eakins on the ice.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Thanks for that. We pretty much agree on what needs to happen.

I do think a competent coach would have made last year's team and this team look better than it has but that's revisionist at this point. I'm still not going to paint all of MacT's acquisitions as busts because, really, how can you tell with a coach who looks like he doesn't even know how to teach a breakout?

Having said that, I agree that a full house cleaning is in order. I'll be watching closely to see if Katz has learned anything. So we all will be I suspect.

I would love to see a competent coach come in but so many ships have passed this team by...

Like last year they could've had Ruff or Vigneault, or for a stretch, Jon Cooper.

This year they could've had Bylsma (still could have), Trotz (who would definitely have this team defensively aware), or Laviolette (who's a bit washed up but still better than Eakins), instead MacT jumped at the first ship he saw which turned out to be a leaky liferaft.

There's always the extremely unlikely chance that Babcock comes here... Or maybe Ken Hitchcock but the pickings are slim.

And I don't think Katz will fire his friend Lowe, no matter how bad things get. The solution is clear though. This organization needs fresh, new, EXPERIENCED faces that aren't just old Oilers.

 

[rboomercat90]

I believe Button implied that they should fire Eakins after 3 games. Not necessarily that they would.

In all fairness to Button, he spent pretty much every Friday of the second half of last season , on Stauffer's show implying that he should be fired. He's been on that wagon for a while.

 

[Seedling]

I would love to see a competent coach come in but so many ships have passed this team by...

Like last year they could've had Ruff or Vigneault, or for a stretch, Jon Cooper.

This year they could've had Bylsma (still could have), Trotz (who would definitely have this team defensively aware), or Laviolette (who's a bit washed up but still better than Eakins), instead MacT jumped at the first ship he saw which turned out to be a leaky liferaft.

There's always the extremely unlikely chance that Babcock comes here... Or maybe Ken Hitchcock but the pickings are slim.

And I don't think Katz will fire his friend Lowe, no matter how bad things get. The solution is clear though. This organization needs fresh, new, EXPERIENCED faces that aren't just old Oilers.

And let's be honest, Smith and Bucky were mandatory for anyone coming in here. No self respecting coach is going to accept that BS. That we got anyone is remarkable but we definitely got the fringe of potential NHL head coaches to accept that.

Seemingly they recognized that failure during the off season but I really wonder if guys even pick up the phone for a job here unitl MacT and Lowe are gone. Truly.

I like all three guys you cited but I am very sure they wouldn't go to a team that likes to put it's buddies in key positions making the coach basically neutered. I have to think any coach coming in knows they have to keep at least one guy from the previous staff. That seems pretty normal as far as I can see but the ability to build your own coaching staff and trainers etc. is pretty much what good coaches are used to doing.

The amount of interference and patronage that goes on with this group is really disturbing and works against success. They run this team like it's still 1985. I truly think Lowe and MacT still think that the way they won cups is valid in today's NHL. It isn't. The fact that this has been so obvious for over a decade speaks to the level of arrogance in place at Katz Palace. It's remarkable.

 

[redgrant]

And let's be honest, Smith and Bucky were mandatory for anyone coming in here. No self respecting coach is going to accept that BS. That we got anyone is remarkable but we definitely got the fringe of potential NHL head coaches to accept that.

Seemingly they recognized that failure during the off season but I really wonder if guys even pick up the phone for a job here unitl MacT and Lowe are gone. Truly.

I like all three guys you cited but I am very sure they wouldn't go to a team that likes to put it's buddies in key positions making the coach basically neutered. I have to think any coach coming in knows they have to keep at least one guy from the previous staff. That seems pretty normal as far as I can see but the ability to build your own coaching staff and trainers etc. is pretty much what good coaches are used to doing.

The amount of interference and patronage that goes on with this group is really disturbing and works against success. They run this team like it's still 1985. I truly think Lowe and MacT still think that the way they won cups is valid in today's NHL. It isn't. The fact that this has been so obvious for over a decade speaks to the level of arrogance in place at Katz Palace. It's remarkable.[/QUOTE]

To some degree it might but I dont see superior versions of Crosby, Toews, Karlsson, Rask on this team.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

And let's be honest, Smith and Bucky were mandatory for anyone coming in here. No self respecting coach is going to accept that BS. That we got anyone is remarkable but we definitely got the fringe of potential NHL head coaches to accept that.

Seemingly they recognized that failure during the off season but I really wonder if guys even pick up the phone for a job here unitl MacT and Lowe are gone. Truly.

I like all three guys you cited but I am very sure they wouldn't go to a team that likes to put it's buddies in key positions making the coach basically neutered. I have to think any coach coming in knows they have to keep at least one guy from the previous staff. That seems pretty normal as far as I can see but the ability to build your own coaching staff and trainers etc. is pretty much what good coaches are used to doing.

The amount of interference and patronage that goes on with this group is really disturbing and works against success. They run this team like it's still 1985. I truly think Lowe and MacT still think that the way they won cups is valid in today's NHL. It isn't. The fact that this has been so obvious for over a decade speaks to the level of arrogance in place at Katz Palace. It's remarkable.

I'm sure you're right about the bolded. It just bugs me that MacT didn't even try to find another coach, or at the very least make Eakins an assistant (which would've been perfectly fine). Then again Lowe didn't even try to find an actual GM so it's a trickle down effect...

If they lose tonight (and they probably will) Katz' Palace might actually burn to the ground. The fanbase is itching to take out their frustrations on the team. Katz needs to do what's right and fire the OBC. Another coaching/GM change simply won't do.

 

[Seedling]

To some degree it might but I dont see superior versions of Crosby, Toews, Karlsson, Rask on this team.

True, but we do have enough of a team here to not have the doors blown off every night.

I'm sure you're right about the bolded. It just bugs me that MacT didn't even try to find another coach, or at the very least make Eakins an assistant (which would've been perfectly fine). Then again Lowe didn't even try to find an actual GM so it's a trickle down effect...

If they lose tonight (and they probably will) Katz' Palace might actually burn to the ground. The fanbase is itching to take out their frustrations on the team. Katz needs to do what's right and fire the OBC. Another coaching/GM change simply won't do.

Firing the coach again is going to happen at some point. Eakins is terrible. He needs to go no matter what but that should be the first of massive changes. Very much agreed on that.