Ghost Is The Best Defenseman On The Team

VoiceOfTheFlyers

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
317
101
anigif_enhanced-buzz-25301-1448338561-5.gif


Oh, come on, man.
Ok. Then tell me what it proves. Does it mean he's the 7th best defenseman in the league? Does it mean that he's top 10? Does it mean he's a scoring machine?

Seriously, I'm very interested in your response.
 

Starat327

Top .01% OnlyHands
Sponsor
May 8, 2011
37,706
74,792
Philadelphia, Pa
Ok. Then tell me what it proves. Does it mean he's the 7th best defenseman in the league? Does it mean that he's top 10? Does it mean he's a scoring machine?

Seriously, I'm very interested in your response.

Seems pretty simple to me. SIts proves that currently, hes the 7th best even strength scoring defenseman in the league.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tripod
Feb 19, 2003
66,464
24,927
Concord, New Hampshire
Brett Burns has 31 more giveaways than Provorov.
John Klingberg, a likely Norris Finalist has the same amount of turnovers as Provorov.
you have the puck on your stick a lot you are prone to turn overs. Just like guys who shoot the puck a lot are going to be in the league leaders in missed shots. See Jeff Carter when he was here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Captain Dave Poulin

VoiceOfTheFlyers

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
317
101
Brett Burns has 31 more giveaways than Provorov.
John Klingberg, a likely Norris Finalist has the same amount of turnovers as Provorov.
you have the puck on your stick a lot you are prone to turn overs. Just like guys who shoot the puck a lot are going to be in the league leaders in missed shots. See Jeff Carter when he was here.
Burns handles the puck a LOT more than Provorov does. I'm surprised it's only 31 more.
 

Deadpool8812

Registered User
Feb 10, 2018
12,776
16,264
Brett Burns has 31 more giveaways than Provorov.
John Klingberg, a likely Norris Finalist has the same amount of turnovers as Provorov.
you have the puck on your stick a lot you are prone to turn overs. Just like guys who shoot the puck a lot are going to be in the league leaders in missed shots. See Jeff Carter when he was here.
Ahhh yes. Good old "high and wide" Carter
 

Magua

Entirely Palatable Product
Apr 25, 2016
37,655
156,151
Huron of the Lakes
No, it's your narrative. You made it so when you decided to derail the thread that you were somehow in my head talking about MY intentions and calling them "unclean." Whatever that's supposed to mean. You furthered your narrative by insinuating that a criticism of Provorov must mean I'm a hater and now you admit you didn't understand the argument to begin with LOL.

Yes, you are correct. I did criticize Provorov's lack of physicality. His total inability to clear a crease. His inability to prevent opposing forwards from setting up in the crease in front of his goalie on the PK. The fact that he doesn't respond to physical play and cheap shots in kind. He's never fought a single fight in the NHL. Even Nolan Patrick has a fight LOL. Is it any wonder opposing forwards eyes light up like a kid on Christmas morning when they see #9 on the PK? Go ahead and tell me I'm speaking anything other than the facts and am just being a hater.

You said: Provorov consistently grades out as an elite entry/exit d-man from every scrap of data I've ever seen, and is right there with Ghost, or even better.

Prove it. I don't believe you for a second. Post the data.

You said: Ghost followed a similar pattern prior to this pairing.

Incorrect. Ghost was great prior to being paired with Provorov. In fact, if you took a look, the stats say Provorov is the one who benefitted from being paired with Ghost, not the other way around.

You said: But it's irrelevant for Provorov.

It's not. Nothing can be relevant for one player and not the other if they play the same position.

The advanced stats quote from me might be relevant here if I was posting advanced stats. The stats for Provorov are actually pretty basic stats for defensemen lol.

As a Modernist stream-of-consciousness style post, I would call this a success. As any sort of argument, this is verbal diarrhea. I'd just repeat a lot of what I said responding too in-depth. Long story short, your stats are wrong and you generally don't seem to have a grasp on the use and validity of the ones that aren't, or just disparage ones like actual scoring. As it was before, it doesn't seem about logic or debate, but rather a zealous desire to minimize Provorov -- beyond the realm of rational criticism; the rational I don't oppose, and I do think Ghost has been better -- so you do you, pal. Wear that title "The JTown of Provorov" with pride.

I'll add that microstats fall very much under the umbrella of analytics. It's odd to rag on stats and then feverishly search out microstats to back up an argument. "Basic stats" are in the eye of the beholder though; I think most people with working knowledge of them would call the mainstream ones "basic stats" because they describe basic, intuitive things. But Tom, Dick, and Harry probably aren't discussing entry/exit data and xGF% between sips of Bud Light at XFINITY Live!.

Here are those stats by the way:

Last year, you can see he was 1st in controlled entry % allowed on the team, 1st in controlled exit %s, and 2nd in controlled entry %s. Of course comparing players on one team to a different team has some inherent difficulties.....

K2GtE9i.png


And here's this year, tracked through 50 or so games. Entries are similar to last year; it's more Ghost surging. But he is in a tier to himself with this stuff. And you can see Provorov's blue line defense is up there with the best in the NHL.

I already made this point last time, but it does make an interesting case if possible to separate Ghost and Provorov's data for before and after the pairing. There is only one puck and we have two excellent entry/exit machines on quasi-PPs at 5v5, without the chance to get as many exits. It's why I was more curious about %s than per 60 stats. It's a lot different than when Hagg and MacDonald were beside each of them. And for the record, they have each benefitted from this new Ivan-Ghost pairing in pretty equal measure, adjusting for usage. They each were subpar statistically apart with those partners, even with quality entry/exit stats -- because that's just one area and you can do well in that and not do well overall. See, I told you I'd repeat myself.

qDAwPcJ.png


eiCn6IK.png


I'm sure I'll get a logical pretzel response back as I wasted my time again. This is my last response here, so just make sure to put mustard on top. Pretzels need mustard. #TeamMustard
 

Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
7,159
7,865
It is pretty crazy how much Sanheim, Provorov and Ghost seperate themselves for the others. I will state that I think Hagg is a pretty good third pair if they manage to keep his contract cheap or inexpensive.

I'm also deeply puzzled by this thread. Can we get back to hating on MacDonald and Manning?
 

Starat327

Top .01% OnlyHands
Sponsor
May 8, 2011
37,706
74,792
Philadelphia, Pa
It is pretty crazy how much Sanheim, Provorov and Ghost seperate themselves for the others. I will state that I think Hagg is a pretty good third pair if they manage to keep his contract cheap or inexpensive.

I'm also deeply puzzled by this thread. Can we get back to hating on MacDonald and Manning?

We're not allowed, because that means we hate hakstol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BackWithaVengeance

Captain Dave Poulin

Imaginary Cat
Apr 30, 2015
68,348
200,646
Tokyo, JP
As a Modernist stream-of-consciousness style post, I would call this a success. As any sort of argument, this is verbal diarrhea. I'd just repeat a lot of what I said responding too in-depth. Long story short, your stats are wrong and you generally don't seem to have a grasp on the use and validity of the ones that aren't, or just disparage ones like actual scoring. As it was before, it doesn't seem about logic or debate, but rather a zealous desire to minimize Provorov -- beyond the realm of rational criticism; the rational I don't oppose, and I do think Ghost has been better -- so you do you, pal. Wear that title "The JTown of Provorov" with pride.

I'll add that microstats fall very much under the umbrella of analytics. It's odd to rag on stats and then feverishly search out microstats to back up an argument. "Basic stats" are in the eye of the beholder though; I think most people with working knowledge of them would call the mainstream ones "basic stats" because they describe basic, intuitive things. But Tom, Dick, and Harry probably aren't discussing entry/exit data and xGF% between sips of Bud Light at XFINITY Live!.

Here are those stats by the way:

Last year, you can see he was 1st in controlled entry % allowed on the team, 1st in controlled exit %s, and 2nd in controlled entry %s. Of course comparing players on one team to a different team has some inherent difficulties.....

K2GtE9i.png


And here's this year, tracked through 50 or so games. Entries are similar to last year; it's more Ghost surging. But he is in a tier to himself with this stuff. And you can see Provorov's blue line defense is up there with the best in the NHL.

I already made this point last time, but it does make an interesting case if possible to separate Ghost and Provorov's data for before and after the pairing. There is only one puck and we have two excellent entry/exit machines on quasi-PPs at 5v5, without the chance to get as many exits. It's why I was more curious about %s than per 60 stats. It's a lot different than when Hagg and MacDonald were beside each of them. And for the record, they have each benefitted from this new Ivan-Ghost pairing in pretty equal measure, adjusting for usage. They each were subpar statistically apart with those partners, even with quality entry/exit stats -- because that's just one area and you can do well in that and not do well overall. See, I told you I'd repeat myself.

qDAwPcJ.png


eiCn6IK.png


I'm sure I'll get a logical pretzel response back as I wasted my time again. This is my last response here, so just make sure to put mustard on top. Pretzels need mustard. #TeamMustard

#TeamMustard with the death blow. We're going to need a clean-up on Aisle F - there is moron viscera splattered everywhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Starat327 and Magua

BackWithaVengeance

Registered User
Jan 19, 2008
2,442
711
Germany
Agreed. He’s the best Dman right now overall which is fantastic news. He is so unique too. Provorov is going through his version of a sophomore slump getting 20 goals and playing #1 minutes. I imagine he will be a lot better than his rookie year next and take over ghost again which is so awesome.

Good on ghost to figure things out. At his contract, he is worth a ton right now.

So much this. Incredible how some can ignore that and call him ineffective ( I've chosen ineffective instead of bad because I am a nice person, you know).
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheKingPin

TheKingPin

Registered User
Nov 16, 2005
20,666
10,149
Philadelphia, PA
So much this. Incredible how some can ignore that and call him ineffective ( I've chosen ineffective instead of bad because I am a nice person, you know).

He’s even started to pick it up of late. His shots get through and usually go for a rebound or he scores. He has a little bit of a timing issue and issues with the puck jumping I’ve his stick. He stick is a little short. Maybe get a longer one. I would just stick with it.
 

captainpaxil

Registered User
Dec 2, 2008
4,710
1,232
Ghost is an elite offensive d man and his defense has picked up greatly this year. It makes me so happy to have provy on the team. I spent too long wishing someone besides rico could get the puck out of the zone lol. I can't wait for the time when all our young guys are playing in the nhl this corpse is going to be a force
 

dats81

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
5,673
1,598
Carinthia, AUT
Ghost has really developed into a pretty complete defenseman. There are some aspects of the game where he will always be limited due to his size but he has found a way to compensate for that with great stickwork.

I would love our first pairing more if the other two would be any good. All competence in one pairing simply kills you matchups.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad