Great Gonzo, isn't irrelevant to talk about Thornton's all time rankings considering he has an 8 year head start on Getzlaf? Who knows where Getzlaf ends up.
I understand that gap, as pointed out, made the comparison odd from certain angles, but still...
Well the question is who has had the better career as of now, right? Your right...Thornton having more years on Getzlaf skews it a bit, but while still answering the question, Thornton has clearly had the better career mainly because of his all time rankings. It may not be the most fair comparison, especially with Getzlaf so young, but Thornton has made good with that extra time.
Well Getzlaf is 32....not exactly getting any younger. And Thorntons peak was far to good, I don't believe Getzlaf will be able to catch up.
Great Gonzo, your posts are long and I just want to respond to a few points, which you've brought up repeatedly. Therefore i won't quote.
Forget the 07 run.
In another post, I listed FOUR runs where Getzlaf stood out as the main guy on the Ducks. 09, 14, 15, 17.
I think that, not only does Thornton not have as many, if any, playoff runs comparable to those four, but also the Sharks have generally had better depth than the Ducks up front, during those years where they went deep in the playoffs.
Take 2011 for instance, that team had seven players (6 forwards!) with 10+ pts over 18 games. [keep in mind that Dany Heatley was not one of those players, which makes one wonder about that team's forward depth]
2010, they had six (5 forwards!) with 10+ over 15 games.
2016, they had four guys (3 forwards) with 20+ over 24 games.
Thornton was the leading scorer only once, here.
Lets look at Getzlaf.
2009, Ducks have four guys (but just two forwards: Getzlaf and his linemate Perry) with 10+ over 13 games.
2014, Ducks have only two guys to score 10+ in 12-13 games: Getzlaf and Perry.
2015, Ducks have eight guys (5 of them forwards) with 10+ pts over 16 games. This is definitely a deeper Ducks team, with the Kesler/Silf line doing some serious damage.
2017, Ducks have four guys (all forwards) with 10+ over 17 games.
Getzlaf was the leading scorer every of those runs, however.
Points are far from everything, but I think these numbers suggest, and that's how I remember it, that Getzlaf has had to carry a heavier load than Thornton in playoff runs that don't include 07.
The Sharks may have had better depth, but Getzlaf has always had better wingers for the most part. I agree Getzlaf was a beast during those runs. My point was that outside of 07, both have had lousy runs, and both have had great runs. Thornton was their best player in 07, 08, 09, 11, and 2012. Now if we are comparing Getzlafs playoff performances to Thorntons, then yes Getzlaf has more "valuable" playoff runs. But that doesn't suddenly mean he has had a better career. That's what doesn't make sense, especially. Inside ring that the Ducks didn't find any succes, just like the Sharks.
Sure, Thornton didn't lead the team in scoring those years, but that doesn't mean he wasn't one of their best players. 2010 he had a bad 1st round while he was one of our best players through out the playoffs in 2016. The problem is that Thornton didn't get a decent team around him until his late 30s. Getzlaf had that mixture very early on.
I understand playoffs are important, but Getzlaf hasn't done enough or anything that significant in the post season that can be called greater than Thorntons entire career.
I mean why ignore that Thornton has also done better in the regular season through out their respected careers? Why ignore Thorntons all time rankings? They mean something when we are talking about a career? Don't they? More than the 3-4 times Getzlaf was better in the playoffs.
Great Gonzo, isn't irrelevant to talk about Thornton's all time rankings considering he has an 8 year head start on Getzlaf? Who knows where Getzlaf ends up.
I understand that gap, as pointed out, made the comparison odd from certain angles, but still...
1: Played in all situations lead all our forwards in ice time 2 min more then the next closest and had the most points despite Penner dragging things down. He was our best forward. If you don't agree fine then this is a agree to disagree situation.
2: They struggled some for a bit of 1 season its not like they had been struggle for years. Even if you don't see them winning the Cup in 09 doesn't mean they weren't contenders just that they had not been that favorite for some people. A contender doesn't have to be a favorite or even top 2 to win a cup.
3: I already said Thornton was better in the regular season I don't need to be told it over and over and over again. Getzlaf isn't a better player but he has had the better career. You acting like I am saying Getzlaf has been the better player which I am not. Better players don't always have better career.
4: Your acting like he was playing limited mins in a totally sheltered easy role he wasn't. Our MVP shutdown line wasn't our 4th line. Yeah McDonald lead Ducks in goals and Selanne was right behind in points but they didn't play in all situations and having the mins Getzlaf had.
5: Everything has a value. 2007 is important for the Cup win which helps in career value to have that cup win while doing so leading the team in points and overall amount ice time from forwards. Your trying to undervalue him from that championship team which is crazy. Getzlaf at his best in actual play and production per game in playoffs was ahead of Thornton at his best and Getzlaf overall in his playoff career was better. I would take Getzlaf career of being a elite player who won a cup like he did and has 1 more gold medal and has been better in playoffs and Olympics in his career and who should be a hall of famer in the future over Thornton career of been better in the regular season.
6: But zero above point per game and some being a good deal behind the scoring leader on his team from the playoffs totally unacceptable from someone with his size and skill.
7: 2006 playoffs he was 5 points behind the scoring leader in the playoffs and that was from his Art Ross season that is just crazy. If he played and produced as well in that playoffs as expected after that season the Sharks have a good chance to of won the Cup. He needed to be better in that playoffs as well as other be he wasn't. Someone as good as his having zero playoffs above a point per game and his drop off from regular season was big. Getzlaf isn't as good a player as Thronton and Getzlaf has a cup and more goal medals and has been better in both playoffs and Olympics the Ducks failures are not on him like the Sharks are on Thornton you don't like well I am sorry but thats the way it is. I wouldn't be happy with Thornton in the playoffs if I was a Sharks/Thornton fan.
8: Sure but that came later and when Getzlaf was out of the lineup from that Hart season Perry was below PPG. Penner from that playoffs wasn't that good he dragged down his line. Cheechoo in 2006 was better then him. I would take Marleau and Cheechoo as linemates from 2006 over Penner and Perry from 2007.
9: Yeah they did with a goaltending meltdown and Getzlaf having a long playoffs with a sports hernia effecting him. Somehow he still finished above PPG in that series. That 20005-2006 Sharks team with Thornton was great I seem to remember hearing how they had the best record once he joined them. Regardless they have a 2-0 series lead against the Oilers and if Thronton was better and they won they could of beaten the Ducks and possibly the Hurricanes too.
10: I said he never been above above point per game in a playoffs and he hasn't he has been at exactly it before no higher.
11: Lets take a look at some shall we?
2009 vs. Sharks 8 points in 6 games.
2009 vs. Red Wings 10 points in 7 games.
2014 vs. Kings 8 points in 7 games.
2015 vs. Blackhawks 8 points in 7 games.
Even against teams with good centers and many with elite defenseman and some such series playing hurt he has managed to still produce well.
12: I have been saying Thronton is better in the regular season stop acting like I haven't. I am sorry you can't handle me rather having Getzlaf career. Elite centerman during many regular seasons + better in playoffs and Olympics + a Cup + 1 Olympic gold and should be a hall of famer is a career I would rather have then just having a better regular season career like Thornton had.
13: Everyone has some series they struggle in even with that one he finished above point per game in the playoffs something Thornton never did in a playoffs too bad for him and the Sharks.
14: As judging who is a better player no I don't. Who had a better career not just looking at amount of team awards but combining them with how good the player was. I wouldn't pick Draper and his 4 Cups career over Thronton career. Getzlaf has been good enough in regular season that with everything else from Getzlaf for me to take him over Thornton.
1. No, Getzlafs line had it easy. He didn't play in all situations. You need to stop throwing out statements that you can't back up. Pahlsson and McDonalds line got the heavier match ups. Getzlaf was a young up and comer who was paired with a winger who did just as well as he did.
2. I agree we were contenders, but we were injury riddled and our depth, defense, and goaltending took a **** that series.
3. So let me get this straight...Thornton being top 20 in points, top 10 in assists with a Hart/Art Ross, Olympic gold medal....all takes a back seat to a cup, 2 more international medals, and better playoff numbers....that's the most ridiculous reasoning I have ever read.
4.
YES your MVP line was Pahlssons line. Did you not watch those playoffs? I never said he didn't play well but he was sheltered. Pahlssons line had the top line match up AND was producing with some clutch moments, McDonald line was their number 1 line and they were producing consistently. Getzlaf lead the Ducks in points in 17 in 21 games....and there were, what....3-4 players with 15 points alone? Another few with 10 or better. It was a solid team depth wise and Getzlaf was free to roam.
5. Well you continuously contradict yourself with the 07 run..
A. Getzlaf wasn't their top center
B. Getzlaf wasn't even their best forward
C. He wasn't(yet) an elite center
D. You put so much emphasis on value to a team, but Getzlaf wasn't even the top 3 most valuable players, by your standards it shouldn't count.
6. Don't change your statements. You said he has NEVER had a PPG playoff season. He has had 4. Stop
Moving goal posts
7. Ok....it was one year. What's your point? That team was not going to get far. They lacked everything that was needed. Even if Thornton did better, it wouldn't have made a difference
8. You wouldn't be saying that if Thornton wasn't their center
9. Yes, but they were out of the playoffs by a long shot before Thornton. Once again, Getzlaf and the Ducks lost to the same team so I don't understand how your using this to benefit your argument.
10./11.
2007: R1 vs Nashville: 5-0-6-6
2008: R1 vs Calgary: 7-2-5-7
2010: R2 vs Detroit: 5-3-5-8
2011: R3 vs Vancouver: 5-1-5-6
2012: R1 vs STL: 5-2-3-5
2013: R1 vs Vancouver: 4-1-5-6
2016: R2 vs Nashville: 7-2-6-8
2016: R3 vs STL: 6-0-7
That's 8 playoff series where he was a PPG...
12. No it's the fact that you don't see Thorntons regular season resume as more valuable than Getzlafs, which it is. Having a few more team trophies where as Thornton has more individual awards and better stats doesn't equal a better career.
13. Are you seriously still saying Thornton has NEVER finishes at a PPG in the playoffs? Really?....it's not about who you would choose, it's about who has had a better career.
14. Yet Getzlafs career as a whole isn't better. If their regular season resumes were even remotely close, then ya Getzlaf would have the edge due to playoffs, but it isn't close. As for who is/was better? I'd say the guy who won the Hart with a first team all star honor and 3 second team a lot better. Some players are good in the playoffs, others aren't. Thornton isn't bad in the playoffs, he just couldn't get it going at certain times.
Also Getzlaf overall game in the playoffs has been better. Thronton is a -26 in the playoffs in his career while Getzlaf is a +16. I know its +/- that people make fun of but wow a -26 for Thornton just wow.
Plus minus is a horrible indication of defense. You know better than that. Thornton has been used against the opposing teams top line, Getzlaf hasn't been, especially with Kesler. Thornton is better defensively than Getzlaf, and using plus/minus to prove otherwise is quite weak.
of course he wasn't the top forward for Canada but he was better in the Olympics then Thornton who wasn't their top forward either.
