Getzlaf vs Thornton - entire careers up to today

Regal

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The problem with picking one for a playoff series is that both players(as number 1 centers) have not led their team to cups. Under Thornton, the sharks have been to the WCF 3 times and a stanley cup finals appearance once. If people pick Getzlaf, they are doing it mainly out of his 2007 run, where he was 4th, possibly the 5th best player during that run.

Disagree. It's not always about winning. Getzlaf just had a playoffs where everyone was raving about his play through three rounds. And he's played similarly in '09, '14 and '15. I don't remember a single playoff run where anyone was raving about Thornton. He was usually solid but never seemed to step up his play to be the best player on the ice. And the Ducks have gone to the WCF twice since their cup win with Getzlaf as not only their number 1 center, but clear best player. It's not as if they've been first round fodder.

Now it's not always roses for Getzlaf. He's struggled against some of the other top centers in the West in head to head matches and has occasionally run dry as a series has worn on. Still, he's been a clearly better playoff performer to the point I don't have much problem picking him over Thornton in the playoffs since probably 2009 or 2010. The question for me is whether peak Thornton had more in him than he showed in the playoffs. In many ways those Sharks teams just after the lockout had good records mainly due to Thornton's regular season heroics. They didn't really have the depth of the latter Sharks teams and Thornton could be keyed in to a greater extent. Thornton was far more dominant in '06 in the regular season than anything I've ever seen from Getzlaf and its strange that he wasn't better in the playoffs. To some degree I think it's his tendency to stay on the perimeter, but we've also seen that often times playoff narratives can be created with small sample sizes that tend to correct themselves over time.
 
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GreatGonzo

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If people are doing that, then they are being unreasonable. Getzlaf has been terrific in other playoff runs, in which he's been the clear 1C:

09 - lost in 7 to the defending champs, and eventual cup finalists, one win away from repeating (Red Wings). Getzlaf went 18 in 13, and 10 in 7 against the Wings.

14 - lost in 7 to the eventual champs (Kings). Getzlaf went 15 in 12, and 8 in 7 against the Kings.

15 - lost in 7 to the eventual champs (Hawks). Getzlaf went 20 in 18, and 8 in 7 against the Hawks.

17 - lost in 6 to the Preds in the West final. Getzlaf went 19 in 17, but only 4 in 6 against the Preds. Nevertheless an impressive run.

More broadly, I don't see much reason in the premise that a player needs to win the cup to be eligible as a worthy playoff performer.
I too think it's very unreasonable. Both have had their good and bad playoff runs, but people here still are giving Getzlaf the edge playoff wise because he has a cup
Disagree. It's not always about winning. Getzlaf just had a playoffs where everyone was raving about his play through three rounds. And he's played similarly in '09, '14 and '15. I don't remember a single playoff run where anyone was raving about Thornton. He was usually solid but never seemed to step up his play to be the best player on the ice. And the Ducks have gone to the WCF twice since their cup win with Getzlaf as not only their number 1 center, but clear best player. It's not as if they've been first round fodder.

Now it's not always roses for Getzlaf. He's struggled against some of the other top centers in the West in head to head matches and has occasionally run dry as a series has worn on. Still, he's been a clearly better playoff performer to the point I don't have much problem picking him over Thornton in the playoffs since probably 2009 or 2010. The question for me is whether peak Thornton had more in him than he showed in the playoffs. In many ways those Sharks teams just after the lockout had good records mainly due to Thornton's regular season heroics. They didn't really have the depth of the latter Sharks teams and Thornton could be keyed in to a greater extent. Thornton was far more dominant in '06 in the regular season than anything I've ever seen from Getzlaf and its strange that he wasn't better in the playoffs. To some degree I think it's his tendency to stay on the perimeter, but we've also seen that often times playoff narratives can be created with small sample sizes that tend to correct themselves over time.

It's because it's cool to hate Thornton and call him out for his "choking" in the playoffs. The difference between the two is Getzlaf came into a better situation than Thornton, with a better team around him. The Sharks have gone two the conference finals and cup finals as Thornton being their number 1
Center and for the most part, their best player as well....

Thornton carried the Sharks in the playoffs for awhile, Getzlaf never did. It's not that Thornton didn't have more in him, it's that when he would fall short, the Sharks would fall short. Getzlaf had plenty of help, Thornton didn't.
 

VanIslander

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I too think it's very unreasonable. Both have had their good and bad playoff runs, but people here still are giving Getzlaf the edge playoff wise because he has a cup.
And Getzlaf has a significantly better points-per-playoff-game average.

And he did more on the Ducks march to the Stanley Cup (Finals) than Thornton did on the Sharks march to the Finals (each was 2nd in team assists but Getzlaf was also 2nd in goals whereas Joe hardly had any).

It seems clear that Getzlaf was better in the playoffs. But the gap is nowhere near as big as it is between them in the regular season, in Joe's favor.
 

Quid Pro Clowe

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Disagree. It's not always about winning. Getzlaf just had a playoffs where everyone was raving about his play through three rounds. And he's played similarly in '09, '14 and '15. I don't remember a single playoff run where anyone was raving about Thornton. He was usually solid but never seemed to step up his play to be the best player on the ice. And the Ducks have gone to the WCF twice since their cup win with Getzlaf as not only their number 1 center, but clear best player. It's not as if they've been first round fodder.

Now it's not always roses for Getzlaf. He's struggled against some of the other top centers in the West in head to head matches and has occasionally run dry as a series has worn on. Still, he's been a clearly better playoff performer to the point I don't have much problem picking him over Thornton in the playoffs since probably 2009 or 2010. The question for me is whether peak Thornton had more in him than he showed in the playoffs. In many ways those Sharks teams just after the lockout had good records mainly due to Thornton's regular season heroics. They didn't really have the depth of the latter Sharks teams and Thornton could be keyed in to a greater extent. Thornton was far more dominant in '06 in the regular season than anything I've ever seen from Getzlaf and its strange that he wasn't better in the playoffs. To some degree I think it's his tendency to stay on the perimeter, but we've also seen that often times playoff narratives can be created with small sample sizes that tend to correct themselves over time.
The media raved about Thornton through the St Louis series when he had 18 pts in 18 games. Once they found out it was Pittsburgh in the finals it became OMG SIDNEY!!!1

Seriously, the Sharks had no national coverage and they were priming Crosby for the Conn Smythe from game 1.
 

VanIslander

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The media raved about Thornton through the St Louis series when he had 18 pts in 18 games. Once they found out it was Pittsburgh in the finals it became OMG SIDNEY!!!1

Seriously, the Sharks had no national coverage and they were priming Crosby for the Conn Smythe from game 1.
The Sidney Network led the charge. They even ninja'd praise for Malkin into praise for Crosby.

But what does media coverage have to do with anything here? Both Getzlaf and Thornton have suffered from the Californian media blindspot.
 

Regal

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I too think it's very unreasonable. Both have had their good and bad playoff runs, but people here still are giving Getzlaf the edge playoff wise because he has a cup


It's because it's cool to hate Thornton and call him out for his "choking" in the playoffs. The difference between the two is Getzlaf came into a better situation than Thornton, with a better team around him. The Sharks have gone two the conference finals and cup finals as Thornton being their number 1
Center and for the most part, their best player as well....

Thornton carried the Sharks in the playoffs for awhile, Getzlaf never did. It's not that Thornton didn't have more in him, it's that when he would fall short, the Sharks would fall short. Getzlaf had plenty of help, Thornton didn't.

I really don't see where Thornton carried the Sharks more than Getzlaf has had to in recent years and while Getzlaf had more help earlier in his career, I don't see where there's some big gap in the teams around them. For the most part the Sharks have been a little better, as they haven't had the same down periods. And I still don't see where the Sharks having slightly more playoff success is an argument over Getzlaf's significantly better PPG
 

Regal

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The media raved about Thornton through the St Louis series when he had 18 pts in 18 games. Once they found out it was Pittsburgh in the finals it became OMG SIDNEY!!!1

Seriously, the Sharks had no national coverage and they were priming Crosby for the Conn Smythe from game 1.

Thornton was also largely overshadowed by Couture and Burns leading up to that point too. It was a very good performance from him, but again it just didn't seem like the type of stand out performance we've seen from other similar players like Getzlaf.
 

GreatGonzo

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And Getzlaf has a significantly better points-per-playoff-game average.

And he did more on the Ducks march to the Stanley Cup (Finals) than Thornton did on the Sharks march to the Finals (each was 2nd in team assists but Getzlaf was also 2nd in goals whereas Joe hardly had any).

It seems clear that Getzlaf was better in the playoffs. But the gap is nowhere near as big as it is between them in the regular season, in Joe's favor.

He was the 2nd line center and probably the 5th best player during that run. That teams real MVP line was Pahlssons line. Sure he contributed a great deal, but he was at best a young complimentary player, not yet an elite center. So it very much is a stretch to say Getzlaf added more value than Thornton did. Especially when you have a team with guys like Pronger, Selanne, Niedermayer, and Giguere. That 07 team was a very complete team from top to bottom.

Joe was a huge reason(and more so than Getzlaf) that the Sharks were in the finals, they just had a better team in front of them.

I really don't see where Thornton carried the Sharks more than Getzlaf has had to in recent years and while Getzlaf had more help earlier in his career, I don't see where there's some big gap in the teams around them. For the most part the Sharks have been a little better, as they haven't had the same down periods. And I still don't see where the Sharks having slightly more playoff success is an argument over Getzlaf's significantly better PPG

The Sharks were a bottom feeder team when Thornton got there, the Ducks had a deep run in 2006. Thornton was THE main offense for the Sharks a majority of his years in SJ, Getzlaf had guys like Perry, Selanne, and Ryan. Not to mention guys like Pronger and Nieds on defense. Getzlaf had a comfortable situation in Anaheim early on and was well on his way to take over. once he did, the team saw a lot of success...but not more than Thornton and the Sharks.

I'm not saying Thornton should get an edge for the playoffs, if anything it's a wash. But Getzlafs cup and better PPG doesn't equal, or is it better than Thorntons regular season resume.
 

Quid Pro Clowe

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Thornton was also largely overshadowed by Couture and Burns leading up to that point too. It was a very good performance from him, but again it just didn't seem like the type of stand out performance we've seen from other similar players like Getzlaf.
That isn't really fair considering how Couture, Burns and throw in Pavelski were outplaying everyone in the entire playoffs up to that point. It would be like discrediting Getzlaf's 06 run because he played with two hof defenseman playing hof hockey.
 

VanIslander

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He was the 2nd line center and probably the 5th best player during that run. That teams real MVP line was Pahlssons line. Sure he contributed a great deal, but he was at best a young complimentary player, not yet an elite center. So it very much is a stretch to say Getzlaf added more value than Thornton did.
Getzlaf led the Ducks in playoff scoring (and easily led all Anaheim forwards in ice time, more than 2 minutes ahead of the next guy).

You should be complimentary about Getzlaf! Because that ain't a complementary role.
 

GreatGonzo

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Getzlaf led the Ducks in playoff scoring (and easily led all Anaheim forwards in ice time, more than 2 minutes ahead of the next guy).

You should be complimentary about Getzlaf! Because that ain't a complementary role.

My point was AT THAT TIME, he wasn't this top center in the league, he was an up and coming young player.

But it can't be said that he was MORE valuable than Thornton during his cup run. Because he wasn't even one of the players considered for the Smythe. Not that takes anything away from his performance, but again, hardly more valuable.

Thornton has been more valuable to the Sharks than a Getzlaf has been for the Ducks.
 

Sensinitis

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He was the 2nd line center and probably the 5th best player during that run. That teams real MVP line was Pahlssons line. Sure he contributed a great deal, but he was at best a young complimentary player, not yet an elite center. So it very much is a stretch to say Getzlaf added more value than Thornton did. Especially when you have a team with guys like Pronger, Selanne, Niedermayer, and Giguere. That 07 team was a very complete team from top to bottom.

Joe was a huge reason(and more so than Getzlaf) that the Sharks were in the finals, they just had a better team in front of them.



The Sharks were a bottom feeder team when Thornton got there, the Ducks had a deep run in 2006. Thornton was THE main offense for the Sharks a majority of his years in SJ, Getzlaf had guys like Perry, Selanne, and Ryan. Not to mention guys like Pronger and Nieds on defense. Getzlaf had a comfortable situation in Anaheim early on and was well on his way to take over. once he did, the team saw a lot of success...but not more than Thornton and the Sharks.

I'm not saying Thornton should get an edge for the playoffs, if anything it's a wash. But Getzlafs cup and better PPG doesn't equal, or is it better than Thorntons regular season resume.

Are you saying that Getzlaf doesn't deserve full credit for his performance as the 1C on the not-as-deep-as-07 Ducks teams because when he first made the NHL, the Ducks were a deep team, so he wasn't forced into a 1C right away?

The thing with Thornton is that, unfortunately for him, the Sharks were not a deep team during his peak years. 05-08, Thornton is always top5 in scoring. Yet at that point the Sharks' offense is him, Marleau, Cheechoo and Michalek. I am not sure but I don't think their top defensemen, like Carle and Ehrhoff, had really hit their stride yet. Nabokov at the time was above average. From 08-09 onwards, Ehrhoff and Carle i believe improved, Dan Boyle came in, Vlasic was getting more playing time, and guys like Setoguchi, Pavelski, and later on Couture, started emerging. Yet thats when Thornton lost a step.

Edit: Carle actually left after 07-08...
 

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Um, yes you can. Thornton has had a better career, and it's not really debatable.

Getzlaf has been a better playoff performer in his career and won a cup leading the team in points and average ice time among forwards while playing in all situations. Getzlaf won 1 more Gold medal.

Thornton had been better in the regular season outside of that Getzlaf has been better and won more even beating Thornton lead Sharks in a playoff series in which Getzlaf was much better. I would say Getzlaf career is better. If your saying Thornton career is better and it's not really debatable then your being a total Sharks/Thronton homer.

The problem with picking one for a playoff series is that both players(as number 1 centers) have not led their team to cups. Under Thornton, the sharks have been to the WCF 3 times and a stanley cup finals appearance once. If people pick Getzlaf, they are doing it mainly out of his 2007 run, where he was 4th, possibly the 5th best player during that run.

Getzlaf lead the Ducks forwards in points (2 more then Selanne and Perry) and lead our forwards in overall ice time (by over 2 min then Pahlsson who was 2nd most) when the Ducks won the Cup. Getzlaf lead the Ducks to 2 western conference finals. People pick Getzlaf because of wining more while also being better in the playoffs and Olympics with 1 more goal medal in his career not just because of winning the Cup in 2007.

I too think it's very unreasonable. Both have had their good and bad playoff runs, but people here still are giving Getzlaf the edge playoff wise because he has a cup


It's because it's cool to hate Thornton and call him out for his "choking" in the playoffs. The difference between the two is Getzlaf came into a better situation than Thornton, with a better team around him. The Sharks have gone two the conference finals and cup finals as Thornton being their number 1
Center and for the most part, their best player as well....

Thornton carried the Sharks in the playoffs for awhile, Getzlaf never did. It's not that Thornton didn't have more in him, it's that when he would fall short, the Sharks would fall short. Getzlaf had plenty of help, Thornton didn't.

Outside of 2007 Getzlaf has lead the Ducks to 2 western conference finals lets not act like he never lead the Ducks anywhere.

Thronton a number of times wasn't the Sharks leading producer in the playoffs. Lets look at some of them shall we?

2006 playoffs coming off a Art Ross regular season Thronton was tied for 2nd in points being 5 behind the Sharks leader.

2010 playoffs when Sharks made it to western conference finals Thronton was 5th in points being 5 behind the Sharks leader.

2016 playoffs when the Sharks made it to the stanley cup finals he was 3rd in points being 7 behind the Sharks leading producer.

He was the 2nd line center and probably the 5th best player during that run. That teams real MVP line was Pahlssons line. Sure he contributed a great deal, but he was at best a young complimentary player, not yet an elite center. So it very much is a stretch to say Getzlaf added more value than Thornton did. Especially when you have a team with guys like Pronger, Selanne, Niedermayer, and Giguere. That 07 team was a very complete team from top to bottom.

Joe was a huge reason(and more so than Getzlaf) that the Sharks were in the finals, they just had a better team in front of them.



The Sharks were a bottom feeder team when Thornton got there, the Ducks had a deep run in 2006. Thornton was THE main offense for the Sharks a majority of his years in SJ, Getzlaf had guys like Perry, Selanne, and Ryan. Not to mention guys like Pronger and Nieds on defense. Getzlaf had a comfortable situation in Anaheim early on and was well on his way to take over. once he did, the team saw a lot of success...but not more than Thornton and the Sharks.

I'm not saying Thornton should get an edge for the playoffs, if anything it's a wash. But Getzlafs cup and better PPG doesn't equal, or is it better than Thorntons regular season resume.

The shutdown line was a better overall line being the MVP line but it doesn't mean that Getzlaf was a complimentary player my god leading the team in points and over 2 more min played then any other forward while playing in all situation is better then that.

My point was AT THAT TIME, he wasn't this top center in the league, he was an up and coming young player.

But it can't be said that he was MORE valuable than Thornton during his cup run. Because he wasn't even one of the players considered for the Smythe. Not that takes anything away from his performance, but again, hardly more valuable.

Thornton has been more valuable to the Sharks than a Getzlaf has been for the Ducks.

The 2007 playoffs was his breakout to being such a good center. He wasn't a established #1C yet I don't care about that.
 

GreatGonzo

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Are you saying that Getzlaf doesn't deserve full credit for his performance as the 1C on the not-as-deep-as-07 Ducks teams because when he first made the NHL, the Ducks were a deep team, so he wasn't forced into a 1C right away?

The thing with Thornton is that, unfortunately for him, the Sharks were not a deep team during his peak years. 05-08, Thornton is always top5 in scoring. Yet at that point the Sharks' offense is him, Marleau, Cheechoo and Michalek. I am not sure but I don't think their top defensemen, like Carle and Ehrhoff, had really hit their stride yet. Nabokov at the time was above average. From 08-09 onwards, Ehrhoff and Carle i believe improved, Dan Boyle came in, Vlasic was getting more playing time, and guys like Setoguchi, Pavelski, and later on Couture, started emerging. Yet thats when Thornton lost a step.

Edit: Carle actually left after 07-08...

This is coming down to value. Getzlaf to the 07 Ducks was not more valuable than Thornton for the '16 Sharks. I give full credit to Getzlaf, my point was that people are over emphasizing that cup run. It was a great run, but that still doesn't change the fact that he was still put in a better position to win than Thornton. He still wasn't one of the Ducks MVPs that run. The 07 Ducks were a weird team considering no one person stood out enough for a fore sure MVP. It probably would have been Pronger if he hadn't got suspended, Pahlsson was phenomenal during that run and I still stand by his line being the best line they had, and Niedermayer was great as wel, and ultimately won MVP. Again, this isn't anything against Getzlaf, it's against the idea that Getzlaf is better in the post season due to his 2007 post season.

From 2009-17, Thornton is leading the Sharks in the post season with Pavs and Couture closely behind. He still leads them regardless at 0.83. From 06-08(Sharks more weaker seasons) Thornton is at 0.86, not exactly a huge drop off. Besides the best and deepest team I've ever seen from the Sharks before 2016, was the 2010 team...and they unfortunately met an even better team in the WCF. The others finally had a solid top 6, solid goaltending, and good defense up front, but out bottom guys on both sides sorely lacked, and out goaltending wasn't very reliable come playoff time(mainly because our Defense wasn't always the deepest).

Getzlaf has been a better playoff performer in his career and won a cup leading the team in points and average ice time among forwards while playing in all situations. Getzlaf won 1 more Gold medal.

Thornton had been better in the regular season outside of that Getzlaf has been better and won more even beating Thornton lead Sharks in a playoff series in which Getzlaf was much better. I would say Getzlaf career is better. If your saying Thornton career is better and it's not really debatable then your being a total Sharks/Thronton homer.



Getzlaf lead the Ducks forwards in points (2 more then Selanne and Perry) and lead our forwards in overall ice time (by over 2 min then Pahlsson who was 2nd most) when the Ducks won the Cup. Getzlaf lead the Ducks to 2 western conference finals. People pick Getzlaf because of wining more while also being better in the playoffs and Olympics with 1 more goal medal in his career not just because of winning the Cup in 2007.



Outside of 2007 Getzlaf has lead the Ducks to 2 western conference finals lets not act like he never lead the Ducks anywhere.

Thronton a number of times wasn't the Sharks leading producer in the playoffs. Lets look at some of them shall we?

2006 playoffs coming off a Art Ross regular season Thronton was tied for 2nd in points being 5 behind the Sharks leader.

2010 playoffs when Sharks made it to western conference finals Thronton was 5th in points being 5 behind the Sharks leader.

2016 playoffs when the Sharks made it to the stanley cup finals he was 3rd in points being 7 behind the Sharks leading producer.



The shutdown line was a better overall line being the MVP line but it doesn't mean that Getzlaf was a complimentary player my god leading the team in points and over 2 more min played then any other forward while playing in all situation is better then that.



The 2007 playoffs was his breakout to being such a good center. He wasn't a established #1C yet I don't care about that.
Thorntons regular season resume is far to superior to take a backseat to one cup run where he wasn't even among their top 5 players arguably. Thornton at this point is probably the best playmaker of his generation, top 25 in points(soon to be top 20) Hart and Art Ross, multiple all star honors, and elite point titles mixed with a great defensive game....

Getzlaf may be better in the playoffs, but that's simply without context. Getzlaf has always had the luxury of a solid team around him. When he took charge as their top center, he already had great wingers, great defense, and solid goaltending...Thornton made due with what he had, which wasn't much, but he made a career out of that.

I'm aware he lead them in points, which is a great accomplishment, but once again, that doesn't make him more valuable when compared to Thornton and the Sharks.

I never said that, I've said that's Thornton has done just as well while leading the team as their number 1 center with 3 WCF appearances, and a stanley cup finals appearance. Slightly more impressive, but I don't give the edge to Thornton, because once again....his regular season resume is far to impressive.

What exactly is your point? Thornton was the up and front leader in 2011 when they made the WCF, 2009 he lead them in scoring when the team had a melt down. He lead them in points as well in 07, 08,
And 2012...that's 5 times he lead them points...so you can not pick the years but it makes no sense, especially without the context, like for example in 2010, Thornton was 2nd in points going into the Hawks series and gained control in the Detroit series with 8 points in 5 games. Thornton was also leading he team in assists and had two great series against Nashville and St. Louis, but what's funny is how you not pick that of all things considering Getzlaf only lead his team in points one time during the 07 post season(WCF against Detroit) other than that he was R1: 2nd, R2: 8th, and the finals: 3rd. He had plenty of help. The team in general had so much fire power. Once that team slowly was dismantled, Getzlaf lost a lot of talent, and since then(like Thornton) he has had some great runs, but hasn't repeated. Thornton had help in 2016, that's what finally made a difference and got them over the hump.
 

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Thorntons regular season resume is far to superior to take a backseat to one cup run where he wasn't even among their top 5 players arguably. Thornton at this point is probably the best playmaker of his generation, top 25 in points(soon to be top 20) Hart and Art Ross, multiple all star honors, and elite point titles mixed with a great defensive game....

Getzlaf may be better in the playoffs, but that's simply without context. Getzlaf has always had the luxury of a solid team around him. When he took charge as their top center, he already had great wingers, great defense, and solid goaltending...Thornton made due with what he had, which wasn't much, but he made a career out of that.

I'm aware he lead them in points, which is a great accomplishment, but once again, that doesn't make him more valuable when compared to Thornton and the Sharks.

I never said that, I've said that's Thornton has done just as well while leading the team as their number 1 center with 3 WCF appearances, and a stanley cup finals appearance. Slightly more impressive, but I don't give the edge to Thornton, because once again....his regular season resume is far to impressive.

What exactly is your point? Thornton was the up and front leader in 2011 when they made the WCF, 2009 he lead them in scoring when the team had a melt down. He lead them in points as well in 07, 08,
And 2012...that's 5 times he lead them points...so you can not pick the years but it makes no sense, especially without the context, like for example in 2010, Thornton was 2nd in points going into the Hawks series and gained control in the Detroit series with 8 points in 5 games. Thornton was also leading he team in assists and had two great series against Nashville and St. Louis, but what's funny is how you not pick that of all things considering Getzlaf only lead his team in points one time during the 07 post season(WCF against Detroit) other than that he was R1: 2nd, R2: 8th, and the finals: 3rd. He had plenty of help. The team in general had so much fire power. Once that team slowly was dismantled, Getzlaf lost a lot of talent, and since then(like Thornton) he has had some great runs, but hasn't repeated. Thornton had help in 2016, that's what finally made a difference and got them over the hump.

Thornton was better in the regular season not questioning that but a better career doesn't simply end with that. Getzlaf being better in the playoffs and Olympics with a Cup and 1 more Olympic gold medal is enough to say he has had a better career especially with how good he has been which he has been elite before.

Sharks have been a good franchise a good team during the cap era lets not act like they haven't been contenders. They simply didn't win and a good deal of that had to do with Thornton not stepping up and playing and producing like what is expected of him.

I never said Thornton was more valuable then Getzlaf just that Getzlaf had a better career and better in playoffs and Olympics. Career up to today is what the thread has in the title not who was better during just the regular season or more valuable to his team.

Thornton lead the Sharks to 1 western conference finals the others he was not the best player or even best forward when they went deep. Not that impressive compared to Getzlaf.

Thornton lead the Sharks in points a number of times but also a number of time he didn't being a good deal behind the leader 2 times when they went deep that's the point.
When the Ducks went deep Getzlaf lead the Ducks in points 3 out of the 4 times only from his 1st ever playoffs from his rookie season he didn't. The rest of the time Getzlaf lead the Ducks in points all the time with the exception of 2011 playoffs when he was 4th while still being a PPG in that playoffs.
When the Ducks and Sharks played each other the President Trophy winning Sharks lost to the Ducks in which Getzlaf was much better.
This past playoffs from Getzlaf is more impressive then anything Thronton did in the playoffs and Getzlaf didn't have a elite winger in Perry (no longer elite) or any elite defenseman on the team or a highly experience good playoff goalie anymore and with a coach that many in these forums have trashed for being bad.

I will take Thornton for regular season but Getzlaf for Stanley Cup playoffs along with Olympics and I would rather have his career up to today.
 

GreatGonzo

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Thornton was better in the regular season not questioning that but a better career doesn't simply end with that. Getzlaf being better in the playoffs and Olympics with a Cup and 1 more Olympic gold medal is enough to say he has had a better career especially with how good he has been which he has been elite before.

Sharks have been a good franchise a good team during the cap era lets not act like they haven't been contenders. They simply didn't win and a good deal of that had to do with Thornton not stepping up and playing and producing like what is expected of him.

I never said Thornton was more valuable then Getzlaf just that Getzlaf had a better career and better in playoffs and Olympics. Career up to today is what the thread has in the title not who was better during just the regular season or more valuable to his team.

Thornton lead the Sharks to 1 western conference finals the others he was not the best player or even best forward when they went deep. Not that impressive compared to Getzlaf.

Thornton lead the Sharks in points a number of times but also a number of time he didn't being a good deal behind the leader 2 times when they went deep that's the point.
When the Ducks went deep Getzlaf lead the Ducks in points 3 out of the 4 times only from his 1st ever playoffs from his rookie season he didn't. The rest of the time Getzlaf lead the Ducks in points all the time with the exception of 2011 playoffs when he was 4th while still being a PPG in that playoffs.
When the Ducks and Sharks played each other the President Trophy winning Sharks lost to the Ducks in which Getzlaf was much better.
This past playoffs from Getzlaf is more impressive then anything Thronton did in the playoffs and Getzlaf didn't have a elite winger in Perry (no longer elite) or any elite defenseman on the team or a highly experience good playoff goalie anymore and with a coach that many in these forums have trashed for being bad.

I will take Thornton for regular season but Getzlaf for Stanley Cup playoffs along with Olympics and I would rather have his career up to today.

My point is that his regular season resume far exceeds anything Getzlaf has done, and it isn't close. Getzlaf having a cup and 1 more gold medal doesn't exactly make up for that huge gap in production and individual hardware. I would definitely say being 23rd(soon to be top 20) in overall points, 13th in assists(possibly ending in the top 10) with a Hart, Art Ross, 1st team AS, 3x Second team, with 4 international Gold medals a better career than 1 Stanley cup and 1 more gold medal.

Yes....they have been good and we're contenders because of Thornton, he was the difference maker. Not even close. He turned around a franchise and put up impressive point totals with subpar wingers. He had to weather the storm until he finally got a great team around him. He was a huge reason they made the playoffs so many times in general. Let's not talk like the Sharks were doing great before he got there.

Again it simply makes no sense to say he has had a better career based on that. Both are team awards first of all, and his cup came on a stacked team with him centering the 2nd line. He hasn't won a cup since taking over as the best center.

You can't just separate the regular season and Playoffs. Justin Williams has 3 cups and a conn smythe, but I wouldn't say he has had a better career than Thornton. Thornton is a slam dunk HOF, while Getzlaf has more work to do. There are plenty of players that have better playoff resumes than Thornton, but that doesn't mean they have had a better career.

As the number 1 center, he has led them to THREE WCF appearances, and a stanley cup appearance. Getzlaf was not their best player or forward during the 07 cup run....so what exactly are you getting at? That's the one year you are using as a career definer, yet he too wasn't even close to their best player. Was Getzlaf really their undisputed best player during those playoff runs? It's not like he got much farther than Thornton did.

Your also forgetting that Thornton was in his mid-late 30s by the time the Sharks were good enough to make deeper runs. His 2016 playoffs was extremely impressive(especially at 36) and he was one of their best players. He was also one of their best players in 2010. Once again it's contradicting to call out Thornton for not being their best player when they made deep runs, yet praise Getzlaf for his 07 post season....even though he too was not their best player. It's also strange to give Getzlaf more credit for being their best player when his team met the same fate as Thornton and the Sharks did each time. So which one is it? Getzlaf is the man when he is their best player when they don't make it all the way, but gets credit for his 2007 playoffs even though he wasn't their best player?....

2009? You mean the series where Thornton was the only shark to show up? Exactly challenged Getzlaf to a fight(and won). Hockey isn't one on one and Getzlaf being better than Thornton one playoff series doesn't suddenly make his career better. Talk about reaching. Especially considering some much needed context....like Getzlaf having guys like Ryan and Perry on his wing and Pronger/Niedermayer on the back end.....but ya Getzlaf was the MVP :laugh:

I think Thorntons 2016 post season is better than anything Getzlaf has done, because he actually made it to the finals leading his team as their top center.

That's the funniest thing when people say this, but with Getzlaf it's even more funny. You would honestly pick Getzlaf for the playoffs? What success has he had or brought his team as the number 1 center? If you do pick him, what line will he be on? What exactly guarantees any success?

There is something you seem to keep forgetting....Getzlaf won a cup on the 2nd line....with a future Hart winner on his wing, with 2 HOF(and both Norris trophy finalists)defensemen, a Beastly shut down line with a selke finalists, a seasoned Conn Smythe winning goalie, and another HOFer in Selanne on the first line who finished 2 points behind Getzlaf. Don't you you think Thornton would have a great chance of winning a cup with that kind of supporting cast?

Not to mention, ever since Getzlaf took over as the top center, he has had better wingers, defense, and goaltending than Thornton and the Sharks had....yet he hasn't won a cup...so why pick him? It makes no sense what so ever. Your picking him based on the fact that he has a cup and Thornton doesn't, but he wasn't their top center or their best player during that run.....something you are attacking Thornton for.

Getzlaf has never had to carry the Ducks like Thornton had to.
 
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Ducks in a row

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1: My point is that his regular season resume far exceeds anything Getzlaf has done, and it isn't close. Getzlaf having a cup and 1 more gold medal doesn't exactly make up for that huge gap in production and individual hardware. I would definitely say being 23rd(soon to be top 20) in overall points, 13th in assists(possibly ending in the top 10) with a Hart, Art Ross, 1st team AS, 3x Second team, with 4 international Gold medals a better career than 1 Stanley cup and 1 more gold medal.

2: Yes....they have been good and we're contenders because of Thornton, he was the difference maker. Not even close. He turned around a franchise and put up impressive point totals with subpar wingers. He had to weather the storm until he finally got a great team around him. He was a huge reason they made the playoffs so many times in general. Let's not talk like the Sharks were doing great before he got there.

3: Again it simply makes no sense to say he has had a better career based on that. Both are team awards first of all, and his cup came on a stacked team with him centering the 2nd line. He hasn't won a cup since taking over as the best center.

4: You can't just separate the regular season and Playoffs. Justin Williams has 3 cups and a conn smythe, but I wouldn't say he has had a better career than Thornton. Thornton is a slam dunk HOF, while Getzlaf has more work to do. There are plenty of players that have better playoff resumes than Thornton, but that doesn't mean they have had a better career.

5: As the number 1 center, he has led them to THREE WCF appearances, and a stanley cup appearance. Getzlaf was not their best player or forward during the 07 cup run....so what exactly are you getting at? That's the one year you are using as a career definer, yet he too wasn't even close to their best player. Was Getzlaf really their undisputed best player during those playoff runs? It's not like he got much farther than Thornton did.

6: Your also forgetting that Thornton was in his mid-late 30s by the time the Sharks were good enough to make deeper runs. His 2016 playoffs was extremely impressive(especially at 36) and he was one of their best players. He was also one of their best players in 2010. Once again it's contradicting to call out Thornton for not being their best player when they made deep runs, yet praise Getzlaf for his 07 post season....even though he too was not their best player. It's also strange to give Getzlaf more credit for being their best player when his team met the same fate as Thornton and the Sharks did each time. So which one is it? Getzlaf is the man when he is their best player when they don't make it all the way, but gets credit for his 2007 playoffs even though he wasn't their best player?....

7: 2009? You mean the series where Thornton was the only shark to show up? Exactly challenged Getzlaf to a fight(and won). Hockey isn't one on one and Getzlaf being better than Thornton one playoff series doesn't suddenly make his career better. Talk about reaching. Especially considering some much needed context....like Getzlaf having guys like Ryan and Perry on his wing and Pronger/Niedermayer on the back end.....but ya Getzlaf was the MVP :laugh:

8: I think Thorntons 2016 post season is better than anything Getzlaf has done, because he actually made it to the finals leading his team as their top center.

9: That's the funniest thing when people say this, but with Getzlaf it's even more funny. You would honestly pick Getzlaf for the playoffs? What success has he had or brought his team as the number 1 center? If you do pick him, what line will he be on? What exactly guarantees any success?

10: There is something you seem to keep forgetting....Getzlaf won a cup on the 2nd line....with a future Hart winner on his wing, with 2 HOF(and both Norris trophy finalists)defensemen, a Beastly shut down line with a selke finalists, a seasoned Conn Smythe winning goalie, and another HOFer in Selanne on the first line who finished 2 points behind Getzlaf. Don't you you think Thornton would have a great chance of winning a cup with that kind of supporting cast?

11: Not to mention, ever since Getzlaf took over as the top center, he has had better wingers, defense, and goaltending than Thornton and the Sharks had....yet he hasn't won a cup...so why pick him? It makes no sense what so ever. Your picking him based on the fact that he has a cup and Thornton doesn't, but he wasn't their top center or their best player during that run.....something you are attacking Thornton for.

12: Getzlaf has never had to carry the Ducks like Thornton had to.

1: Getzlaf has 5 golds and 2 silvers as a member of a Canadien team while Thronton has 4 golds and 1 silver as a member of a Canadien team. That along with a Cup and being better playoff performer and in the Olympics I would take Getzlaf career over Thornton career.

2: 6 of the 7 previous seasons before Thornton joined the Sharks they had been a playoff team. Thornton has been a big part of them being so good during the cap era but him not being so good in the playoffs was also a part of why they didn't do better in the playoffs. Getzlaf played a important part in the Ducks winning the Cup. He has been a important part in Ducks being a contender even after our hall of famers are gone and even this past season with Perry no longer being elite.

3: I know about team awards I have said how Toews isn't as good as made out to be because of them. Getzlaf isn't better because of them but it helps to have a better career. Better career doesn't mean better player.

4: Justin Williams isn't nearly as good a player as Thronton has been and not nearly as good as Getzlaf either. Having more Cups doesn't always make you have a better career. When you have been a elite player like Getzlaf and you have been better in the playoffs and Olympics and have won a Cup and 1 more Olympic gold medal you can say he had a better career then Thornton.

5: Thornton wasn't even the Sharks best forward 2 times they went deep. He has been a playoff disappointment in his career. Even in the Olympics he wasn't that good. Big time player he is not.
Getzlaf stepped up during the playoffs when the Ducks won the Cup being our best forward. The other times Ducks went deep with him as our #1C he was clearly our best player and produced above PPG. Thornton has never been above PPG in a single playoffs at all :amazed:

6: It was a good playoffs for him in 2016 especially at his age but he wasn't better in it then Getzlaf has been at his best in a deep run. 2007 when the team won the cup Getzlaf wasn't the best player but he was the best forward who was used the most and played in all situations. Getzlaf was our best player in 2 of our deep runs while Thornton was only the Sharks best player 1 time from a deep run.

7: Sure he had some great teammates but Sharks had been president trophy winners and lost with Getzlaf being much better then Thornton don't act like Sharks were lucky to be in the playoffs that year.

8: Thornton was below PPG and was 4th on the team in points being 9 behind the center Logan Couture. That being better then Getzlaf best playoffs :shakehead

9: Again Getzlaf led our team in points and total ice time in 2007. 2 Other times as our best player from a deep run. If having both Getzlaf and Thornton as my center in the playoffs I would have Getzlaf as the #1C and Thornton as the #2C

10: He lead our team in points and time on ice playing in all situations that isn't a #2C. Yes with a future hart winner but Perry wasn't that then and he had a bottom 6 producing Penner dragging down the line offensively. Sure Thornton would probably of won with that supporting cast but why are we talking about what if?

11: And yet the Sharks had good teams including a President trophy winning team and couldn't win. I am picking Getzlaf because he has lead a cup winning team in points and most time on ice among the forwards from that team playing in all situation + Olympic gold medal + better playoff performer + in a matchup of their teams in a playoff series in which Sharks had been president trophy winners the Ducks won and Getzlaf was better in that series.

12: If the Ducks wanted to be good since our hall of fame defense had been gone he had to carry the Ducks a lot. Just look at this past playoffs with Perry no longer being elite, a playoff inexperienced #1G,banged up team we relied on Getzlaf so very much and went deep with him being above PPG leading our team in points and 2nd most overall in ice time on the team among skaters. Thornton never had the impact on his team in the playoffs as Getzlaf had for the Ducks this past playoffs.
 

GreatGonzo

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1: Getzlaf has 5 golds and 2 silvers as a member of a Canadien team while Thronton has 4 golds and 1 silver as a member of a Canadien team. That along with a Cup and being better playoff performer and in the Olympics I would take Getzlaf career over Thornton career.

2: 6 of the 7 previous seasons before Thornton joined the Sharks they had been a playoff team. Thornton has been a big part of them being so good during the cap era but him not being so good in the playoffs was also a part of why they didn't do better in the playoffs. Getzlaf played a important part in the Ducks winning the Cup. He has been a important part in Ducks being a contender even after our hall of famers are gone and even this past season with Perry no longer being elite.

3: I know about team awards I have said how Toews isn't as good as made out to be because of them. Getzlaf isn't better because of them but it helps to have a better career. Better career doesn't mean better player.

4: Justin Williams isn't nearly as good a player as Thronton has been and not nearly as good as Getzlaf either. Having more Cups doesn't always make you have a better career. When you have been a elite player like Getzlaf and you have been better in the playoffs and Olympics and have won a Cup and 1 more Olympic gold medal you can say he had a better career then Thornton.

5: Thornton wasn't even the Sharks best forward 2 times they went deep. He has been a playoff disappointment in his career. Even in the Olympics he wasn't that good. Big time player he is not.
Getzlaf stepped up during the playoffs when the Ducks won the Cup being our best forward. The other times Ducks went deep with him as our #1C he was clearly our best player and produced above PPG. Thornton has never been above PPG in a single playoffs at all :amazed:

6: It was a good playoffs for him in 2016 especially at his age but he wasn't better in it then Getzlaf has been at his best in a deep run. 2007 when the team won the cup Getzlaf wasn't the best player but he was the best forward who was used the most and played in all situations. Getzlaf was our best player in 2 of our deep runs while Thornton was only the Sharks best player 1 time from a deep run.

7: Sure he had some great teammates but Sharks had been president trophy winners and lost with Getzlaf being much better then Thornton don't act like Sharks were lucky to be in the playoffs that year.

8: Thornton was below PPG and was 4th on the team in points being 9 behind the center Logan Couture. That being better then Getzlaf best playoffs :shakehead

9: Again Getzlaf led our team in points and total ice time in 2007. 2 Other times as our best player from a deep run. If having both Getzlaf and Thornton as my center in the playoffs I would have Getzlaf as the #1C and Thornton as the #2C

10: He lead our team in points and time on ice playing in all situations that isn't a #2C. Yes with a future hart winner but Perry wasn't that then and he had a bottom 6 producing Penner dragging down the line offensively. Sure Thornton would probably of won with that supporting cast but why are we talking about what if?

11: And yet the Sharks had good teams including a President trophy winning team and couldn't win. I am picking Getzlaf because he has lead a cup winning team in points and most time on ice among the forwards from that team playing in all situation + Olympic gold medal + better playoff performer + in a matchup of their teams in a playoff series in which Sharks had been president trophy winners the Ducks won and Getzlaf was better in that series.

12: If the Ducks wanted to be good since our hall of fame defense had been gone he had to carry the Ducks a lot. Just look at this past playoffs with Perry no longer being elite, a playoff inexperienced #1G,banged up team we relied on Getzlaf so very much and went deep with him being above PPG leading our team in points and 2nd most overall in ice time on the team among skaters. Thornton never had the impact on his team in the playoffs as Getzlaf had for the Ducks this past playoffs.

1. So it's more career defining to be the 4th-5th best player on a cup winning team and have a couple more international medals than to lead all NHL in scoring, be the best player on your team and voted most valuable by the league....we clearly have different opinions, but yours doesn't make much sense.

2. Ya they were always at the bottom come playoff time.. 8th seed in '98, 7th seed in '99, 8th in '00, and then broke through a bit with a 5th place in '01, and a 3rd place and Division title in '02.....only to not make the playoffs the next year. They then won their division again in '04 and went on one hell of a run. All this is nice but they were hardly contenders or a playoff team in general. Not to mention in 2006, before Thornton joined them, they were at the bottom of the west. He turned them around. He was an important part, but hardly one of their best players....something toy continued to use against Thornton, yet Getzlaf gets a pass?

3. A Hart/Art Ross>1 Stanley cup. You may not agree, but they have totally different value.

4. He still has a better playoff resume, and according to you...Getzlafs better point totals and 1 cup makes his career better than Thornton, even though Thornton has a regular season resume that Getzlaf can't touch.

5. And again, neither was Getzlaf, so what's your point? You keep bringing this up then moving the goal posts. Thornton was still one for their best players in 2010, 2011, and 2016. In fact his injury in the 2011 WCF was a huge turning point for the Sharks in the worst way. His play in the 2016 finals affected them negatively as well....that's how valuable he is. And Getzlaf was much better? He wasn't, it wasn't like he received all star honors for any international play...but again, he gets a pass I suppose. He still wasn't even close to their best forward, or player. He played easier minutes and had easier match ups.

6. So Thornton going into the finals had 18 points in 18 games, but that isn't better than anything Getzlaf has done....when is the last time he Ducks made the finals with a Getzlaf leading the way? Oh right....

7. Once again, let's ignore who else was on that team. That Anaheim team was no ordinary 8th seed and everyone knows that, and Getzlaf didn't exactly single handidly win that series himself, especially considering how Thornton couldn't get much help from his teammates, something Getzlaf had PLENTY of. One playoff series where he came out on top doesn't suddenly make his career better.

8. That's what you need to make it in the playoffs, you need others to step up, especially when your center is 36 years old. Getzlaf may have led the Ducks in scoring in 07, but that doesn't exactly make him more valuable than other forwards, in fact he was probably far from that. He also only led the team in scoring during a ne series that playoffs. That team had plenty of scoring with some astounding defensive plat.

9. Once again, Getzlaf still wasn't their best forward or even close to their best player. Something you seem to value. Getzlaf came into a better situation with a solid team with Anaheim, so solid that he rode the 2nd line with a future Hart winner. You are putting way to much emphasis on his point totals that season and not on the one thing that you are using against Thornton....HE WASNT THEIR BEST PLAYER. Since Getzlaf took over as their number one player and center, they haven't made he finals.....I wonder why.

10. No, he was their number 2 center who got to have as much offensive opportunity as possible, while Pahlssons line took on the tougher match ups and McDonalds line getting the tougher defensive units. He still had some great wingers in Penner and Perry very early on. You want to see who Thorntons wingers were when he came to the Sharks? I rest my case

11. Getzlaf hasn't gotten the Ducks anywhere as well, and the one time he did see playoff success, he rode backseat to 4-5 other players. This is more Getzlaf being lucky to be put into a better situation to win than Thornton had ever been put into. Your picking Getzlaf for the playoffs, but news flash, they aren't going to win....why? Because they haven't since he took over and lost all that elite talent around him. Coincidence? No.

12. False. Thornton was the San Jose Sharks and their ticket to the playoffs from 06-09. He made the players around him better, and he showed up....whereas his team didn't. His impact on the Sharks is much more crucial and valuable than you think. Thornton carried a line into the playoffs with Marleau and Setoguchi.....Getzlaf had Ryan and Perry. Thornton also never had the luxury of a savy selke winner on the 2nd line, Thornton also never had the luxury of having the likes of Pronger and Niedermayer. So where his this value you keep speaking of that tops Thornton?

Thornton will most likely end his career within the top 20 in points, and has a good shot of ending up in the top 10 in assists....top 10. And there is no compiling going on, he was for a good stretch one of the best centers in the league and was the most productive PLAYER through out the 2000s. Yet Getzlaf has had a better career because he happened to be playing on a stellar team(actually one of the best teams IMO post lockout) and won a cup? Doesn't add up, doesn't make up for the HUGE lack of production.
 

Quid Pro Clowe

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Getzlaf has been a better playoff performer in his career and won a cup leading the team in points and average ice time among forwards while playing in all situations. Getzlaf won 1 more Gold medal.

Thornton had been better in the regular season outside of that Getzlaf has been better and won more even beating Thornton lead Sharks in a playoff series in which Getzlaf was much better. I would say Getzlaf career is better. If your saying Thornton career is better and it's not really debatable then your being a total Sharks/Thronton homer.
No, you're really not. A better career does not equal better team accomplishments, at least in my mind.

Thornton has an Art Ross, an mvp, willbe top-10 in assists, and is a sure fire first-ballot hofer. You can't say any of those things about Getzlaf.
 

Ducks in a row

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1. So it's more career defining to be the 4th-5th best player on a cup winning team and have a couple more international medals than to lead all NHL in scoring, be the best player on your team and voted most valuable by the league....we clearly have different opinions, but yours doesn't make much sense.

2. Ya they were always at the bottom come playoff time.. 8th seed in '98, 7th seed in '99, 8th in '00, and then broke through a bit with a 5th place in '01, and a 3rd place and Division title in '02.....only to not make the playoffs the next year. They then won their division again in '04 and went on one hell of a run. All this is nice but they were hardly contenders or a playoff team in general. Not to mention in 2006, before Thornton joined them, they were at the bottom of the west. He turned them around. He was an important part, but hardly one of their best players....something toy continued to use against Thornton, yet Getzlaf gets a pass?

3. A Hart/Art Ross>1 Stanley cup. You may not agree, but they have totally different value.

4. He still has a better playoff resume, and according to you...Getzlafs better point totals and 1 cup makes his career better than Thornton, even though Thornton has a regular season resume that Getzlaf can't touch.

5. And again, neither was Getzlaf, so what's your point? You keep bringing this up then moving the goal posts. Thornton was still one for their best players in 2010, 2011, and 2016. In fact his injury in the 2011 WCF was a huge turning point for the Sharks in the worst way. His play in the 2016 finals affected them negatively as well....that's how valuable he is. And Getzlaf was much better? He wasn't, it wasn't like he received all star honors for any international play...but again, he gets a pass I suppose. He still wasn't even close to their best forward, or player. He played easier minutes and had easier match ups.

6. So Thornton going into the finals had 18 points in 18 games, but that isn't better than anything Getzlaf has done....when is the last time he Ducks made the finals with a Getzlaf leading the way? Oh right....

7. Once again, let's ignore who else was on that team. That Anaheim team was no ordinary 8th seed and everyone knows that, and Getzlaf didn't exactly single handidly win that series himself, especially considering how Thornton couldn't get much help from his teammates, something Getzlaf had PLENTY of. One playoff series where he came out on top doesn't suddenly make his career better.

8. That's what you need to make it in the playoffs, you need others to step up, especially when your center is 36 years old. Getzlaf may have led the Ducks in scoring in 07, but that doesn't exactly make him more valuable than other forwards, in fact he was probably far from that. He also only led the team in scoring during a ne series that playoffs. That team had plenty of scoring with some astounding defensive plat.

9. Once again, Getzlaf still wasn't their best forward or even close to their best player. Something you seem to value. Getzlaf came into a better situation with a solid team with Anaheim, so solid that he rode the 2nd line with a future Hart winner. You are putting way to much emphasis on his point totals that season and not on the one thing that you are using against Thornton....HE WASNT THEIR BEST PLAYER. Since Getzlaf took over as their number one player and center, they haven't made he finals.....I wonder why.

10. No, he was their number 2 center who got to have as much offensive opportunity as possible, while Pahlssons line took on the tougher match ups and McDonalds line getting the tougher defensive units. He still had some great wingers in Penner and Perry very early on. You want to see who Thorntons wingers were when he came to the Sharks? I rest my case

11. Getzlaf hasn't gotten the Ducks anywhere as well, and the one time he did see playoff success, he rode backseat to 4-5 other players. This is more Getzlaf being lucky to be put into a better situation to win than Thornton had ever been put into. Your picking Getzlaf for the playoffs, but news flash, they aren't going to win....why? Because they haven't since he took over and lost all that elite talent around him. Coincidence? No.

12. False. Thornton was the San Jose Sharks and their ticket to the playoffs from 06-09. He made the players around him better, and he showed up....whereas his team didn't. His impact on the Sharks is much more crucial and valuable than you think. Thornton carried a line into the playoffs with Marleau and Setoguchi.....Getzlaf had Ryan and Perry. Thornton also never had the luxury of a savy selke winner on the 2nd line, Thornton also never had the luxury of having the likes of Pronger and Niedermayer. So where his this value you keep speaking of that tops Thornton?

13: Thornton will most likely end his career within the top 20 in points, and has a good shot of ending up in the top 10 in assists....top 10. And there is no compiling going on, he was for a good stretch one of the best centers in the league and was the most productive PLAYER through out the 2000s. Yet Getzlaf has had a better career because he happened to be playing on a stellar team(actually one of the best teams IMO post lockout) and won a cup? Doesn't add up, doesn't make up for the HUGE lack of production.

1: He lead the team in points and had the most ice time from our forwards playing the most overall mins. I would say he was better then your giving credit for. Regardless he was a important part of the team when we won. Thornton had 1 great regular season to get those awards and he earned them he has been a better regular season player but that doesn't mean he had a better career.

2: But they still had been a playoff team and even made the western conference finals 1 year. Yes he helped turn them around from 1 bad season but then in the playoffs he didn't play and produce nearly as well as what I would of though after the season he had. Sharks could of went all the way if he played and produce in the playoffs so well like what would be expected after the season he had.

3: To judging who is a better player sure but better career I don't think so.

4: Wining a cup,1 more gold medal,better in the playoffs while still being a elite centerman in the NHL during many regular seasons I will take that career.

5: Getzlaf was our best player 2 times when we went deep being above a point per game those times while Thronton wasn't the best player on his team as many times when his team went deep and has never been above a point per game in the playoffs. I ain't moving the goal post I have been combining multiple things. Getzlaf has been hurt in the playoffs before too he had a sports hernia from the year we lost to Chicago a lot of players play hurt in playoffs some still produce well like how Getzlaf was PPG against Chicago.

6: Getzlaf has had more points in fewer games twice and once with the same amount of points that Thornton had in 2016 before the finals but Getzlaf was the Ducks best producer. Getzlaf at his best in the playoffs was simply better then Thornton ever was in the playoffs.

7: No they were not but they still had some problems like a untested playoff goalie as their #1 lacking a #2C and their forward depth wasn't that good. No 1 playoff series like that doesn't but it helps.

8: Yes you do need players stepping up to bad Thornton went the other way he just wasn't as good as you would think with someone with his talent would be when it comes to a playoff career.

9: He lead the team in points and lead the forwards in time on ice by over 2 mins and played in all situations I would say he was the best forward just not part of the best line. Because the team wasn't good enough around him even when he was great in the playoffs better then Thornton ever had been that is why they never reached the finals since our hall of fame defense had been gone the rest of the team wasn't good enough. Thornton if he was better in 2006 they could of made it to the finals possibly even won but he wasn't even close to as good as expected.

10: He played in all situation which including PK time its not like he was handed nothing but easy offensive usage. Penner wasn't that good in the playoffs and Perry wasn't yet that elite player. Thronton has played with Marleau before that was a good linemate.

11: And Getzlaf even without those hall of fame defenseman and no longer having a elite Perry had a playoffs from a deep run being above PPG something Thornton has never ever done in the playoffs before.

12: In 2006 playoffs I wouldn't say he showed up in the playoffs he was much much worse then from the regular season. I know how valuable he has been for the Sharks during the regular season too bad he didn't play and produce so great in the playoffs. Look at this past season no elite Perry no hall of fame defenseman and injured Kesler a unproven playoff goalie and he lead the team to the western conference finals while being above PPG. He proven something that playoffs that he didn't need such great players to lead his team to a deep playoffs.

13: Thronton has been a better regular season player why are you acting like I am saying he hasn't? Getzlaf didn't just have a better career just because he was lucky to win the Cup 1 year but because he was also better overall in his playoff career better in the Olympics and has 1 more such medal and helped his team beat the President Trophy winning Sharks while being better then Thronton from that series. Combine all that he had a better career despite not being as good a regular season player.

No, you're really not. A better career does not equal better team accomplishments, at least in my mind.

Thornton has an Art Ross, an mvp, willbe top-10 in assists, and is a sure fire first-ballot hofer. You can't say any of those things about Getzlaf.

Well it depends on the difference of how good the players had been. Its not like Getzlaf was a 3rd line center in his career and was worse in the playoffs and never good enough to play for team Canada. Getzlaf was a elite centerman who has been better in the playoffs in his career and has a cup and has been better in the Olympics and has 1 more Olympic gold medal. It is totally debatable who had a better career up to this time if you think its not then your being a Thronton/Sharks homer.

Thornton was better regular season player why do people keep telling me something I know and have said he was? Getzlaf might not be a 1st ballot hall of famer but he probably will be a hall of famer eventually especially when seeing some of the recent hall of fame inductees.
 

Quid Pro Clowe

Registered User
Dec 28, 2008
52,294
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Thornton would have a cup, too, if he got a team like Ottawa instead of the best team of this decade. Matchups are why I don't put a ton of stock on winning the cup, from an individual value aspect. The Olympics also not so much since it is a very small tournament and Canada is the best team in the world. Add in the subjective selection process, like Marleau making it over Thornton last time when he's a vastly inferior player to Joe.

Better career, to me, means how valuable a player has been individually. Team accomplishments factor in to a degree, but there really aren't enough difference between the two to give Getzlaf the edge. They've each been to 1 cup final and Getzlaf has 1 more olympic gold. Thornton still hovers around a ppg despite playing his first 7 years in the peak of the low scoring/clutch and grab era.
 

GreatGonzo

Surrounded by Snowflakes
May 26, 2011
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South Of the Tank
1: He lead the team in points and had the most ice time from our forwards playing the most overall mins. I would say he was better then your giving credit for. Regardless he was a important part of the team when we won. Thornton had 1 great regular season to get those awards and he earned them he has been a better regular season player but that doesn't mean he had a better career.

2: But they still had been a playoff team and even made the western conference finals 1 year. Yes he helped turn them around from 1 bad season but then in the playoffs he didn't play and produce nearly as well as what I would of though after the season he had. Sharks could of went all the way if he played and produce in the playoffs so well like what would be expected after the season he had.

3: To judging who is a better player sure but better career I don't think so.

4: Wining a cup,1 more gold medal,better in the playoffs while still being a elite centerman in the NHL during many regular seasons I will take that career.

5: Getzlaf was our best player 2 times when we went deep being above a point per game those times while Thronton wasn't the best player on his team as many times when his team went deep and has never been above a point per game in the playoffs. I ain't moving the goal post I have been combining multiple things. Getzlaf has been hurt in the playoffs before too he had a sports hernia from the year we lost to Chicago a lot of players play hurt in playoffs some still produce well like how Getzlaf was PPG against Chicago.

6: Getzlaf has had more points in fewer games twice and once with the same amount of points that Thornton had in 2016 before the finals but Getzlaf was the Ducks best producer. Getzlaf at his best in the playoffs was simply better then Thornton ever was in the playoffs.

7: No they were not but they still had some problems like a untested playoff goalie as their #1 lacking a #2C and their forward depth wasn't that good. No 1 playoff series like that doesn't but it helps.

8: Yes you do need players stepping up to bad Thornton went the other way he just wasn't as good as you would think with someone with his talent would be when it comes to a playoff career.

9: He lead the team in points and lead the forwards in time on ice by over 2 mins and played in all situations I would say he was the best forward just not part of the best line. Because the team wasn't good enough around him even when he was great in the playoffs better then Thornton ever had been that is why they never reached the finals since our hall of fame defense had been gone the rest of the team wasn't good enough. Thornton if he was better in 2006 they could of made it to the finals possibly even won but he wasn't even close to as good as expected.

10: He played in all situation which including PK time its not like he was handed nothing but easy offensive usage. Penner wasn't that good in the playoffs and Perry wasn't yet that elite player. Thronton has played with Marleau before that was a good linemate.

11: And Getzlaf even without those hall of fame defenseman and no longer having a elite Perry had a playoffs from a deep run being above PPG something Thornton has never ever done in the playoffs before.

12: In 2006 playoffs I wouldn't say he showed up in the playoffs he was much much worse then from the regular season. I know how valuable he has been for the Sharks during the regular season too bad he didn't play and produce so great in the playoffs. Look at this past season no elite Perry no hall of fame defenseman and injured Kesler a unproven playoff goalie and he lead the team to the western conference finals while being above PPG. He proven something that playoffs that he didn't need such great players to lead his team to a deep playoffs.

13: Thronton has been a better regular season player why are you acting like I am saying he hasn't? Getzlaf didn't just have a better career just because he was lucky to win the Cup 1 year but because he was also better overall in his playoff career better in the Olympics and has 1 more such medal and helped his team beat the President Trophy winning Sharks while being better then Thronton from that series. Combine all that he had a better career despite not being as good a regular season player.



Well it depends on the difference of how good the players had been. Its not like Getzlaf was a 3rd line center in his career and was worse in the playoffs and never good enough to play for team Canada. Getzlaf was a elite centerman who has been better in the playoffs in his career and has a cup and has been better in the Olympics and has 1 more Olympic gold medal. It is totally debatable who had a better career up to this time if you think its not then your being a Thronton/Sharks homer.

Thornton was better regular season player why do people keep telling me something I know and have said he was? Getzlaf might not be a 1st ballot hall of famer but he probably will be a hall of famer eventually especially when seeing some of the recent hall of fame inductees.

I understand that, you have said it about 5 times now. But that still doesn't make him more valuable or even close to the best forward for that post season. I never said he wasn't important, it's you constantly belittling Thornton for not being the "best player" during his deepest runs, then giving Getzlaf more credit for 07 where he wasn't their best player....Far from it actually. If Thornton was on a 2nd line with a lot of ice time, little defensive responsibilities, and getting matched with the opposing teams weaker defensive units, I'm sure he would excel just like Getzlaf did.

Playoff team =/= contenders. Getzlaf came into a Ducks team that was capable of reaching they WCF, then the following year, they win the cup. The Sharks may have been in a position to be contenders in 04, but they were hardly good enough to even make it that far. Getzlaf came into a much better team and much better situation than Thornton with much less responsibility. He wasn't the go to guy, which is why I called him complimentary,

Then I don't know what to tell you. Thornton has the stats, hardware, and impact that buries Getzlaf, but for you, Getzlaf has had the better career because he happened to be on a stanley cup winning team where he led them in points....but was far from their best player. It's confusing.

Getzlaf wasn't an elite centerman when he won the cup, he wasn't even the number one center.....your not making any sense. He was also not exactly their top forward during the international tournaments either. Your basically saying a cup is a cup regardless of his value, yet you dismiss Thornton based on his value. Again, confusing.

So Getzlaf being the better player 1 more time than Thornton certainly makes his career better? Can you nit pick any more? That's a very weak reason and you know that, especially considering that Thornton has led the Sharks farther more times as their number 1 center than Getzlaf.....because that's how valuable he was.

That's nice, Thornton still has Getzlaf beat in production no matter how you spin it. His 2016 season in general is one of his best seasons of his career....all while Getzlaf struggled. 09-17, Thornton sits 5th in points and 1st in assists....so sure, Getzlaf could have some better seasons, but he is younger than Thornton, but when Thornton was his age, he was putting up even better seasons, and more consistently.

That doesn't suddenly just make the overall team around him not that great.....that 08 Ducks team was scary, and it was mainly because of their blue line.

Well it's not his fault he was sheltered on a stacked team as a number 2 center with a great supporting cast, then groomed to be a number 1 center with great wingers. Thornton made a career turning scabs into stars, he has also been THE main guy in SJ and Boston. It's a team effort and Getzlaf was lucky to come into an elite team and get a cup so early.

The 2006 team? What? Do you understand how weak that team was? Do you know who Thorntons wingers were? Their defense? Just stop. The Sharks didn't get a solid team depth wise until 2010. Thornton was the Sharks before that, and yes that includes 2009.

He still hasn't won a cup, just like Thornton. He still hasn't led them to the finals. He still hasn't delivered. Just like Thornton. This isn't about who did well getting bounced out of the playoffs, it's just a shame management couldn't get a better team around Thornton a lot sooner like they did Getzlaf.

That's one year....why are you so focused on single seasons where Thornton didn't do well, yet totally ignore years like 2011, 2007, 2008, etc.....

My point is his regular season resume far exceeds Getzlafs playoff resume. And it isn't close. Getzlaf won a cup over 10 years ago as a solid player, but nothing that screams conn smythe....and he hasn't done anything since, but you give him credit for being productive....but so has Thornton. Just because he hasn't been as proactive compared to the regular season doesn't suddenly mean he hasn't had a better career. He sits 5th in points and 5th in assists among active playoff scorers....but that's not good enough? Once again, not his fault he wasn't put on a stacked team in his second year in the league.

I'm so confused...Thornton was the main center in Boston and SJ. He had great seasons internationally and in the NHL during his time in Boston, he was one of the best centers in the league. He then broke out in San Jose and went on a tear. Thornton was consistently one of the best centers and IMO the best playmaker in the game....can we say the same thing about Getzlaf? Getzlaf has been better in the playoffs because he broke into the league with a great team....Thornton didn't. Getzlad wasn't relied on to lead his team, Thornton was. When Getzlaf got that responsibility, he hasn't won a cup or even made the finals. Getzlaf has a great international resume, but that has a lot to do with his age...besides he had one great Olympic run(2010) and was nothing to really note in 2014. His WCH showing in 2015 wasn't exactly elite either....so those are 2 times where he won gold, but wasn't exactly a significant player....

You see 5 gold medals and a cup, but in reality....it's a bunch of team achievements where half of them he wasn't the most valuable.
 

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