Value of: Getzlaf to the Oilers

[Darkwinter]

Anaheim fans are out of their minds if they think Edmonton would give 1 rounder for a player who has next to nothing left in his tank. A first-round pick for a player who is 35 is a way a Gm gets canned

 

[Cucumber]

What about Erikssen and Sutter or Sven for Getzlaf?

 

[dracom]

Again, I'm happy to disagree..

2 of your arguments are based on
1. age doesn't matter. It absolutely does.
2. cap doesn't matter. It absolutely does.

You did say they are about equal now. Good, we agree on something.lol I think we agree that 26 year old Getzlaf is also much better than current 26 year old RNH. So there is 2 things. One will be HOF and one won't. Still, 8 years is 8 years. Neat fact: Jagr was still in the NHL during Getzlaf's last good playoff run. 46 points. Age matters.

You say that teams prefer older and more experienced players over younger inexperienced players.

I'm confused... are you calling 26 year old RNH inexperienced? Or are you referring to the 19 year old rookies? I'd consider RNH in the peak of his career.

In either case, which team is preferrring older vets over younger players? The teams I consider to be the biggest contenders all have pretty young lineups and their core are all young.

Anaheim is in a rebuild and I'm positive they'll be trying to build around their young core and not adding guys that make 8 million a year that are in their mid 30's.

You must be trolling. We’re talking about playoff experience. This is not hard a hard concept to grasp.

what does jagr have to do with this?

cap does not matter in this conversation since it does not matter during the playoffs.

age also does not matter because it is just one playoff that we’re talking about.

let me know when the last time a playoff team went after a younger inexperienced playoff player for a playoff run.

Your last sentence about Anaheim is completely irrelevant and not what we’re talking about.

 

[Rec T]

Anaheim fans are out of their minds if they think Edmonton would give 1 rounder for a player who has next to nothing left in his tank. A first-round pick for a player who is 35 is a way a Gm gets canned

And you are out of your mind if you think that the Ducks would insult their long term team captain, one who has only played for their organization (NHL and minor) since being drafted, is the team's all time games played leader (well over 1k games), has a very solid NMC, and among other things is married to a local girl along with the overall southern California lifestyle. Maybe loyalty to one of the franchise's greatest players means nothing to you, but you can be sure that anyone considering playing there in the future would have a serious talk with their agent about "look how they treated him, how are they going to treat 'me'...?"

This really is a dumb thread...

 

[Darkwinter]

And you are out of your mind if you think that the Ducks would insult their long term team captain, one who has only played for their organization (NHL and minor) since being drafted, is the team's all time games played leader (well over 1k games), has a very solid NMC, and among other things is married to a local girl along with the overall southern California lifestyle. Maybe loyalty to one of the franchise's greatest players means nothing to you, but you can be sure that anyone considering playing there in the future would have a serious talk with their agent about "look how they treated him, how are they going to treat 'me'...?"

This really is a dumb thread...

So Edmonton has to be taken to the bank because he is loyal to the ducks??? Hate to break the news to you, I don't think Edmonton gives two shits about what he has done for the ducks in the past cause there would be no way our gm would do this kinda trade only in a fantasy world would this trade go down. Some Anaheim fans were asking for two first-rounders from Edmonton for a guy with a couple of years left in him ., ya that's a trade any gm would be pounding down anaheims door to make, let's gut our team for a guy that will be hanging up his skates in a couple of years.

 

[Czechboy]

You must be trolling. We’re talking about playoff experience. This is not hard a hard concept to grasp.

what does jagr have to do with this?

cap does not matter in this conversation since it does not matter during the playoffs.

age also does not matter because it is just one playoff that we’re talking about.

let me know when the last time a playoff team went after a younger inexperienced playoff player for a playoff run.

Your last sentence about Anaheim is completely irrelevant and not what we’re talking about.

I agree it's not a hard concept.

Jagr has a LOT of playoff experience. You said it's about playoff experience. Corry Perry also has a lot of playoff experience. Jason Spezza has a lot of playoff experience.

Cap matters because you have to have the player on your team BEFORE the playoffs begin. Eg. once the playoffs begin, the teams can't recruit the guys that didn't make the playoffs because the cap doesn't count. To get a player on your team before the playoffs, you need cap space.

Playoffs can be up to 3 months long. Age can be a factor. Going back to Jagr/Kovalchuk/Getzlaf/Spezza - they all scored more points in the playoffs in theirs 20's than they did their 30's. I asked earlier... can you name guys that scored more points in the playoffs in their 30's than they did in their 20's?

You do know I'm not saying young below average players are better than above average old ones, right? I'm comparing good players in their 20's vs good players in their 30's. In every instance I can think of, they all got worse in their 30's? The only exception I can think of is goalies.

How is my point about Anaheim irrelevant? They have a good young core and are rebuilding. You think they're looking for guys in their 30's making over 8 milion a year as part of their rebuild?

I asked you to name the teams that are getting veterans for the playoffs? Who is doing this? Most good playoff teams are built around a core of players much younger than 34.

 

[Czechboy]

And you are out of your mind if you think that the Ducks would insult their long term team captain, one who has only played for their organization (NHL and minor) since being drafted, is the team's all time games played leader (well over 1k games), has a very solid NMC, and among other things is married to a local girl along with the overall southern California lifestyle. Maybe loyalty to one of the franchise's greatest players means nothing to you, but you can be sure that anyone considering playing there in the future would have a serious talk with their agent about "look how they treated him, how are they going to treat 'me'...?"

This really is a dumb thread...

Agreed, it is a dumb thread.

The best part is that Getzlaf has made it clear he's not going anywhere and Edmonton isn't looking into his services.lol

I do wonder what team the OP cheers for?

 

[Rec T]

So Edmonton has to be taken to the bank because he is loyal to the ducks??? Hate to break the news to you, I don't think Edmonton gives two ****s about what he has done for the ducks in the past cause there would be no way our gm would do this kinda trade only in a fantasy world would this trade go down. Some Anaheim fans were asking for two first-rounders from Edmonton for a guy with a couple of years left in him ., ya that's a trade any gm would be pounding down anaheims door to make, let's gut our team for a guy that will be hanging up his skates in a couple of years.

No, I'm saying that the Ducks GM isn't going to insult Getzlaf by bringing that proposal to him to begin with. It may/may not be a fair value, but that's not the point. You don't treat someone who has meant/done so much to a franchise for that many years like that...unless he comes to you and says I'm willing to do 'x'. In a purely stat based discussion it may make sense. But in the real world ... yeah there are other things involved.

 

[Czechboy]

No, I'm saying that the Ducks GM isn't going to insult Getzlaf by bringing that proposal to him to begin with. It may/may not be a fair value, but that's not the point. You don't treat someone who has meant/done so much to a franchise for that many years like that...unless he comes to you and says I'm willing to do 'x'. In a purely stat based discussion it may make sense. But in the real world ... yeah there are other things involved.

That and I cant' name the last player to waive a NMC to come to Edmonton.

Curious if he resigns with Anaheim after next year and for how much/term.

 

[405Exit]

Anaheim fans are out of their minds if they think Edmonton would give 1 rounder for a player who has next to nothing left in his tank. A first-round pick for a player who is 35 is a way a Gm gets canned

Apparently you haven’t looked at Getzlaf overall stats. Nothing is out of the ordinary from his career average to this season. Left in the tank is a foolish statement by you. Before making a ridiculous assumption, and a falsified claim. I would bring up his NHL stats and look for a discrepancy.

Ryan Getzlaf Stats and News

 

[dracom]

So Edmonton has to be taken to the bank because he is loyal to the ducks??? Hate to break the news to you, I don't think Edmonton gives two ****s about what he has done for the ducks in the past cause there would be no way our gm would do this kinda trade only in a fantasy world would this trade go down. Some Anaheim fans were asking for two first-rounders from Edmonton for a guy with a couple of years left in him ., ya that's a trade any gm would be pounding down anaheims door to make, let's gut our team for a guy that will be hanging up his skates in a couple of years.

I don’t think Getzlaf gets 2 first round picks, but you’re completely wrong if you don’t think Getzlaf gets a late first round pick from a team looking to for a massive upgrade to their forward core.

 

[Czechboy]

Apparently you haven’t looked at Getzlaf overall stats. Nothing is out of the ordinary from his career average to this season. Left in the tank is a foolish statement by you. Before making a ridiculous assumption, and a falsified claim. I would bring up his NHL stats and look for a discrepancy.

Ryan Getzlaf Stats and News

I hate posting this because I like Getzlaf... but, using your link, here are his 11 best seasons:

He's on pace for 58 points this season.

Here are his 5 worst:

His rookie seasons and his latest seasons.

That's a very normal decline for a guy his age. I get he's still good but he's definitely on the decline. Not many guys turning 35 on the rise in the NHL.

Here it is sorted by points per game:

 

[405Exit]

I hate posting this because I like Getzlaf... but, using your link, here are his 11 best seasons:

View attachment 312651

He's on pace for 58 points this season.

Here are his 5 worst:

View attachment 312653

His rookie seasons and his latest seasons.

That's a very normal decline for a guy his age. I get he's still good but he's definitely on the decline. Not many guys turning 35 on the rise in the NHL.

Here it is sorted by points per game:

View attachment 312655

That’s extremely normal. You also have to put into consideration with what Anaheim has to offer over the past few losing seasons of being awful. Saying Getzlaf has nothing left in the tank is an asinine opinion. Not a factual statement.

I don’t see any major discrepancies from his usual average the last 5 years to now. He’s still well over a .5 PPG, and were barely half way over the NHL season. And if you look at his average over his career. It’s about .5-.7 PPG. This season is no different. He’s usually around that mark.

Guys acting like the dude fell off a cliff. Which is ridiculous

 

[Czechboy]

That’s extremely normal. You also have to put into consideration with what Anaheim has to offer over the past few losing seasons of being awful. Saying Getzlaf has nothing left in the tank is an asinine opinion. Not a factual statement.

I don’t see any major discrepancies from his usual average the last 5 years to now. He’s still well over a .5 PPG, and were barely half way over the NHL season. And if you look at his average over his career. It’s about .5-.6 PPG. This season is no different. He’s usually around that mark.

I did look at his career. He's never been at .5 or .6 ppg.

He had 7 seasons over a 1 point per game. An 8th season at .99 points per game. So 8 seasons at .99 or more which is exceptional!

His last two are .72 points per game. It's roughly a 30 percent decline in production. I agree it's normal for an aging player.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

The problem is what does it cost to take back cap dumps, retain and give up a good center.

Likely a lot more than you guys would want... I mean what would be the cap coming back? Russel + gagner + 30% retention on getzlaf(not sure that even works)

I mean your looking at Bouchard + 20 1st + 21 1st... to even get the conversation started.

Conversation ended before it started. We are paying out the ass for a "need" we don't actually have. If we were going to blow a bunch of 1sts and send away Bouchard, we'd be looking at a 1/2 dman not another center.

 

[crowi]

Anaheim fans are out of their minds if they think Edmonton would give 1 rounder for a player who has next to nothing left in his tank. A first-round pick for a player who is 35 is a way a Gm gets canned

Much like expecting Ducks to give up their captain for any less. He is also still a 2C at least on an actual contender. Only reason he isn't 1C on Oilers is McD.

 

[Czechboy]

Much like expecting Ducks to give up their captain for any less. He is also still a 2C at least on an actual contender. Only reason he isn't 1C on Oilers is McD.

And Drai...

 

[405Exit]

I did look at his career. He's never been at .5 or .6 ppg.

He had 7 seasons over a 1 point per game. An 8th season at .99 points per game. So 8 seasons at .99 or more which is exceptional!

His last two are .72 points per game. It's roughly a 30 percent decline in production. I agree it's normal for an aging player.

I didn’t run the exact math. My point being is that Getzlaf still produces at that .5 and over level. And he’s on a crap Anaheim Ducks team who is one of the worst in the league in scoring for a second season in a row. Last season they were dead last.

And he’s still producing .5 PPG and better. Edmonton with the scorers they have, he would thrive there. Saying he has nothing left in the tank. Is just a foolish statement. That’s why Anaheim fans had to chime in on a falsity.

 

[Czechboy]

I didn’t run the exact math. My point being is that Getzlaf still produces at that .5 and over level. And he’s on a crap Anaheim Ducks team who is one of the worst in the league in scoring for a second season in a row. Last season they were dead last.

And he’s still producing .5 PPG and better. Edmonton with the scorers they have, he would thrive there. Saying he has nothing left in the tank. Is just a foolish statement. That’s why Anaheim fans had to chime in on a falsity.

Name all the scorers on Edmonton not named Drai and McDavid?

 

[405Exit]

Name all the scorers on Edmonton not named Drai and McDavid?

Thats more than Anaheim has. Why don’t you name a scorer on this team outside of Silfverberg...... if you really want to grasp at straws and call em one.

 

[Czechboy]

Thats more than Anaheim has. Why don’t you name a scorer on this team outside of Silfverberg...... if you really want to grasp at straws and call em one.

I'd kill for Kase (obvious Bias) and Rakell.

My prior point.. Edmonton does not have good forwards. We have 2 amazing ones, a very good 2 way one and then not much after that. Drai and McDavid cover up a lot of deficiencies in a very poorly built team.

 

[405Exit]

I'd kill for Kase (obvious Bias) and Rakell.

My prior point.. Edmonton does not have good forwards. We have 2 amazing ones, a very good 2 way one and then not much after that. Drai and McDavid cover up a lot of deficiencies in a very poorly built team.

Have you seen their stats this season? They aren’t a scorer. Look at their stats and compare em to Drai and McDavid. Only player I’ll give you lee way on is Silfverberg on this team. And even then I’m being generous.

My point being is you have 2 extremely good players. Adding Getzlaf by switching up your lines a bit will bring the best out of your top 6 or at worst top 9 for a playoff push.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Name all the scorers on Edmonton not named Drai and McDavid?

James Neal has 19 goals, which is way more than anyone on Anaheim.

Nugent-Hopkins and Kassian both have 13 goals a piece, which would make them 3rd on the Ducks ( both have more than Getzlaf).
Yamamoto has been called up, and has 3 goals in 8 games. He's been the depth that Drai-centered 2nd line has needed.


We're not a particularly deep team, but we're certainly not terrible.

 

[dracom]

I agree it's not a hard concept.

Jagr has a LOT of playoff experience. You said it's about playoff experience. Corry Perry also has a lot of playoff experience. Jason Spezza has a lot of playoff experience.

Cap matters because you have to have the player on your team BEFORE the playoffs begin. Eg. once the playoffs begin, the teams can't recruit the guys that didn't make the playoffs because the cap doesn't count. To get a player on your team before the playoffs, you need cap space.

Playoffs can be up to 3 months long. Age can be a factor. Going back to Jagr/Kovalchuk/Getzlaf/Spezza - they all scored more points in the playoffs in theirs 20's than they did their 30's. I asked earlier... can you name guys that scored more points in the playoffs in their 30's than they did in their 20's?

You do know I'm not saying young below average players are better than above average old ones, right? I'm comparing good players in their 20's vs good players in their 30's. In every instance I can think of, they all got worse in their 30's? The only exception I can think of is goalies.

How is my point about Anaheim irrelevant? They have a good young core and are rebuilding. You think they're looking for guys in their 30's making over 8 milion a year as part of their rebuild?

I asked you to name the teams that are getting veterans for the playoffs? Who is doing this? Most good playoff teams are built around a core of players much younger than 34.

Apparently this is a hard concept for you.

Playoff experience AND current performance matters. You wouldn't go for a guy like Perry because his current performance is bad. Getzlaf's current production is still good for his situation and age. I shouldn't have to explain this but I guess I do.

No, once again the cap does not matter in this scenario. We're discussing a scenario where a team can add either Getzlaf or RNH to their team for a playoff run; that goes with the assumption that the team can take on Getzlaf's cap hit (hell in this fantasy scenario Ducks retain 50%). Once again, I should not have to explain like this lol.

Have I suggested Getz is going to outperform himself in the playoffs now? No. Naming a player in his 30's who did better then than in his 20's isn't relevant. Getz isn't going to drop dramatically in 3 months during the playoffs, like that's a hilarious and ridiculous idea to suggest.

Again an irrelevant point. We're comparing two players, similar skill level, but one has proven successful playoff history while still also being a productive NHL player. RNH is younger, but his lack of experience in the playoffs and lack of success when he was actually in the playoffs is going to cause a team to shy away from him even if he is younger.

The Anaheim point is irrelevant because we're not talking about who you would build a team around right now. We're talking about one playoff run, that's it. Not sure how many times I have to repeat this.

So we're just gonna ignore the years of teams adding playoff rentals for a playoff run? Which again, your point about a team's core being young isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about a team ADDING to what they have for a playoff run. Look at past SC winners, they all have impact players in their 30's.

 

[Czechboy]

Have you seen their stats this season? They aren’t a scorer. Look at their stats and compare em to Drai and McDavid. Only player I’ll give you lee way on is Silfverberg on this team. And even then I’m being generous.

My point being is you have 2 extremely good players. Adding Getzlaf by switching up your lines a bit will bring the best out of your top 6 or at worst top 9 for a playoff push.

It's after Drai/McDavid - it's an awful group on NHLers. If you take out the top 2 Anaheim guys (Getzlaf/Silverberg) and compare your next 10 to our next 10 it's closer than you think.

Anaheim won't take long to be good again.