Speculation: Getting McDavid

[Sabres Dynasty]

How far is too far? What is gutting? This team has stockpiled picks and prospects. You can give up a ton without it gutting the team, IMO.

Its hard to say where I would draw the line. I just really like what we have going forward and don't see the gap between Connor and Jack great enough to warrant moving up.

We all know it would cost us a ton.

 

[stokes84]

I remember when the Flyers went ape **** over Lindros and payed a massive price to the Nordiques/Avalanche. The Avs gladly robbed them and were able to build a Cup winning team thanks to the Flyers.

The prudent approach is to build around Eichel and Reinhart as others have already stated.

Everyone uses this as the cautionary tale, but that Philly team was a force and made a cup final, and who knows what would have happened if Lindros never got concussions? What if Peter Forsberg just ended up being a decent player? Everything changes. I hate that we are all stuck on this as if it is the answer.

 

[CaptPantalones]

Murray (or anyone else) would have to give a lindros like return to get that pick. And the gap with him and eichel isn't big enough to do that

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

In terms of what, HF organizational rankings?

Let's not get sarcastic.

If it takes any two of Reinhart, Zadorov, Girgensons, Bogosian, Kane, or Ennis to move up from Eichel to McDavid, that doesn't set the prospect pool back. That will set the 2015-16 on-ice roster back. I won't like that. I will think it's a bad move. Disagree all you want, but don't misrepresent my post please.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Everyone uses this as the cautionary tale, but that Philly team was a force and made a cup final, and who knows what would have happened if Lindros never got concussions? What if Peter Forsberg just ended up being a decent player? Everything changes. I hate that we are all stuck on this as if it is the answer.

They eventually recovered and went to one cup final, but were at rock bottom for a couple of seasons with almost no assets to improve. The Nordiques/Avs won that deal going away.

At any rate, it's nice to dream about McDavid if the Sabres have the #2 pick, but a trade up ain't happening!

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I'd almost prefer winning the draft in order to have a massive overpayment given up for McDavid...almost...if it were Arizona so Murray could still take Eichel.

 

[Jame]

Would you trade Getzlaf, Perry, +++ for Crosby?

Would your trade Toews, Kane, & Keith for Crosby?

The bottom line is if the Sabres don't win the lottery, the plan should be to build around Eichel and Reinhart moving forward and not get crazy to try and get McDavid.

:yes:

nothing else to discuss

 

[kirby11]

Only way we're getting McDavid is if we win the lottery outright.

Piggybacking off the previous post by 1980...I'd entertain thoughts of giving up McDavid for OEL+Eichel+2016 1st+a boatload of other assets if Arizona made an offer

 

[Jame]

I think McDavid is going to be better than Crosby and I don't think our guys are destined to be as good as the players you mentioned, so it's Not a fair comparison in my mind.

Risto is the only piece I absolutely would not give up. He is going to be a franchise defenseman, IMO, and you need a guy like that on the back end when all is said and done. Other than that, I would be most reluctant to give up any future 1st round picks. They are currency that is invaluable as the team evolves. Kane won't be moved, so check him off. Bogosian is likely in the same boat. After that, you can string together virtually any group of players and prospects from this organization, and it won't be gutted.

the evolution of your views... i like

 

[Jim Bob]

I think the difference between Toews, Kane and Keith compared to Reinhart, Zadorov, and Eichel is absolutely huge.

It would be tough to give up Reinhart, but unless it's Reinhart AND Risto - I don't see that price being too much.

...with that being said, I'd be fine with not doing that - but you'd have to consider it.

Obviously the difference between established guys and kids are vastly different.

But, this is also talking about trading multiple kids who have All-Star potential for one kid with superstar potential.

And like the Lindros trade taught us, a trade built largely on prospects can have a superstar going both ways.

I wouldn't want to give up Reinhart and Eichel to get McDavid. But, I like Reinhart's upside a lot more than many, it would appear.

I see an Eichel-Reinhart combination looking a lot like Getzlaf-Toews down the road.

The Sabres don't have a guy in Reinhart's neighborhood to anchor the second line in the future, IMO.

 

[Montag DP]

I think McDavid is going to be better than Crosby and I don't think our guys are destined to be as good as the players you mentioned, so it's Not a fair comparison in my mind.

Wasn't it just a few months ago that you liked Eichel over McDavid? Methinks you sometimes develop too strong opinions of prospects and it clouds your judgment.

 

[wnysupport]

Obviously the difference between established guys and kids are vastly different.

But, this is also talking about trading multiple kids who have All-Star potential for one kid with superstar potential.

And like the Lindros trade taught us, a trade built largely on prospects can have a superstar going both ways.

I wouldn't want to give up Reinhart and Eichel to get McDavid. But, I like Reinhart's upside a lot more than many, it would appear.

I see an Eichel-Reinhart combination looking a lot like Getzlaf-Toews down the road.

The Sabres don't have a guy in Reinhart's neighborhood to anchor the second line in the future, IMO.

Fair enough points. Pickup ROR beyond that trade, and boom there is your second line

 

[Jim Bob]

Fair enough points. Pickup ROR beyond that trade, and boom there is your second line

I doubt the Sabres have the assets to get ROR if they trade up for McDavid.

Plus, I like Reinhart more as a point producing 2nd line center than ROR.

Reinhart will drive a 2nd line offensively and help on the PP long term. I see ROR as a versatile, complimentary player that will help shepherd along the kids over the next few years.

 

[wnysupport]

I doubt the Sabres have the assets to get ROR if they trade up for McDavid.

Plus, I like Reinhart more as a point producing 2nd line center than ROR.

Reinhart will drive a 2nd line offensively and help on the PP long term. I see ROR as a versatile, complimentary player that will help shepherd along the kids over the next few years.

I like Reinhart, and obviously it's all hypothetical - I'll be happy either way, but would prefer McDavid.

 

[Clock]

The difference between Eichel and McDavid is nowhere near what it would cost to acquire McDavid.

That's how I feel. Make the call to make sure someone isn't insane, and when it's established that they're not, say thanks and take Eichel.

 

[Jim Bob]

I like Reinhart, and obviously it's all hypothetical - I'll be happy either way, but would prefer McDavid.

I just want the Sabres to win the lottery so all these crazy hypotheticals will be about the Sabres potentially getting a king's ransom like the Eichel+OEL+____ for McDavid.

 

[wnysupport]

I just want the Sabres to win the lottery so all these crazy hypotheticals will be about the Sabres potentially getting a king's ransom like the Eichel+OEL+____ for McDavid.

 

[Jim Bob]

Nope, just that my blood pressure will be lower if it's about another team overpaying for McDavid.

I think this is Murray if someone calls and tries to trade for the pick:

 

[Crazy Tasty]

I know this has been discussed ad nauseam

Fixed.

How many identical threads do we need about this?

 

[Jim Bob]

Fixed.

How many identical threads do we need about this?

97

 

[Sabretip]

I really hope we win the lottery. Eichel is the best consolation prize ever. But he's never been on McDavid's level. Not even close.

With that said, the amount of premium cornerstone pieces it would take to get someone to trade out of McDavid... simply isn't worth it. You don't win with one player, you don't build around 1 player. Keeping Reinhart, Girgs, Risto, Zads is as integral to building a contender as getting McDavid would be.

I'll gladly add Eichel to the the structure we are building. He's a perfect fit.

If we win McDavid... I think I'll cry tears of joy for months.

McDavid >> Eichel
It was never close.

Beautifully phrased, Jame - I feel the same way. I admit I'll be very disappointed over the summer if the Sabres get dropped to 2nd in the lottery (no team should finish dead last in consecutive seasons and not get the top pick in at least one of them) but if it happens, I hope training camp arrives not only with Eichel on board but a respected winning coach, a credible #1 goalie and a top 6 forward via trade.

 

[stokes84]

Wasn't it just a few months ago that you liked Eichel over McDavid? Methinks you sometimes develop too strong opinions of prospects and it clouds your judgment.

I never thought of Eichel as being ahead, but I certainly thought they were neck and neck. Eichel's athleticism is jaw dropping. But as I watched them more and more, the separation grew and grew. McDavid is Eichel's athleticism (and a little bit more) + Reinhart's hockey IQ. Eichel plays like he's on the pond doing whatever he wants. Like his coaches always just told him to go out and play, while everyone else had one job, get the puck to Jack. It may be controversial, but I think Eichel is going to have some pretty major struggles next year.

 

[Sabretip]

I doubt the Sabres have the assets to get ROR if they trade up for McDavid.

Just a gut feeling but if Murray is lucky enough to land McDavid, I think his push for ROR will be greater because the focus will be less about adding offense than it will be about adding two-way, tenacious players to complement McDavid, Kane and Reinhart.

If Murray takes Eichel, I think Murray may not pursue ROR as eagerly and instead look for another sniper-type winger.

 

[enthusiast]

A good barometer is to run through the thought exercise of trading #1 away to AZ. What's the cost?

Then build an analogue.

I'd do #1 + RR for #2 + OEL

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Its like we were begging for McEichel, now we have at least Eichel and we want more.

If we cant build a cup winner around Eichel and Reinhart then what are we doing here?