Matthäus also had no problem watching games together with Orban in Hungary. It may be an extended part of his job to be friendly with authoritarian leaders, but those job opportunities he chose himself.
German Football 2018/2019
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Matthäus also had no problem watching games together with Orban in Hungary. It may be an extended part of his job to be friendly with authoritarian leaders, but those job opportunities he chose himself.
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
Matthäus also had no problem watching games together with Orban in Hungary. It may be an extended part of his job to be friendly with authoritarian leaders, but those job opportunities he chose himself.
Orban is no Erdogan or Putin tbf, i.e. he's an elected leader in a EU country, but you could also mention Kalle Rummenigge and Pep Guardiola (among others in world football) being quite chummy with Qatar's leadership. Many other examples. But it all lacks the same context, it's just people doing the expedient thing by getting cozy with the powerful and rich.
The Ozil situation and how it was reacted to can only be seen in the context of the German-Turkish relationship and everything that transpired since Erdogan's ascent to power. The role of the Turkish state in the 'official' Islamic organizations in Germany and their attitude vs German official efforts at encouraging integration, the politics of the Turkish diaspora (Turkish nationalists vs Kurds/Turkish leftists) and the attempts by Erdogan to portray himself as the protector of the Turks in Germany. Ethnic minority politics are always sensitive, but also dangerous due to the tensions that arise from them. It's definitely a minefield you would want to not step into as an athlete. These aspects are just missing from all these other examples people mention as comparisons.
Ozil may be getting up in age in regards to footie but in life he’s a very young man. I blame his advisors for this. He’s only 29. Anybody in the spotlight in today’s day and age really needs to be careful with almost anything on social media, interviews, ect.
Very sad it has come to this.
Very sad it has come to this.
Suiteness
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KJS14
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Ozil should have accepted some blame for his naivety with the Erdogan photo, which I think he alluded to a bit but didn't explicitly say in his statement. But he is 100% spot on about his treatment from the DFB, sponsors, media, and fans. Lukaku even released a similar statement in his Players Tribune article (great read btw) a few weeks ago with the point that "When we win I'm a German/Belgian, when we lose I'm an immigrant." Discrimination like this shouldn't be tolerated just because a player made a poor decision to meet the president of his family's country of origin.
And if you have to whine about the statement being released in English rather than German, then that tells us all we need to know about your beliefs and opinion on the matter.
And if you have to whine about the statement being released in English rather than German, then that tells us all we need to know about your beliefs and opinion on the matter.
Vipers31
Advanced Stagnostic
Good for Özil. Wasn't a fan of his performances and while I think there's a bit of a disconnect in his comments, he's largely right and it warrants being said out loud, and by some of the reactions (with our agitators in chief from BILD, in particular) it requires being said a lot more often by a lot more people.
While I do think Özil could've done some research post-Erdogan photo to figure out why people were upset and then maybe apologize, I think two things stand out to me:
- most professional athletes (especially footballers in Europe) are politically illiterate, to a shocking degree. I, for one, believe him when he says he didn't know it would be an issue - it doesn't excuse him, but it does explain things
- Özil was indeed the patsy this WC for the media... He created a couple of sitters vs Korea, people missed, yet he was the one being singled out and attacked by the media the most.
(coincidentally, I think something very similar has been happening to him at Arsenal... All the blame was laid at him when the results were poor, but someone like Sanchez got off scot-free (without necessarily actually playing better football).
- most professional athletes (especially footballers in Europe) are politically illiterate, to a shocking degree. I, for one, believe him when he says he didn't know it would be an issue - it doesn't excuse him, but it does explain things
- Özil was indeed the patsy this WC for the media... He created a couple of sitters vs Korea, people missed, yet he was the one being singled out and attacked by the media the most.
(coincidentally, I think something very similar has been happening to him at Arsenal... All the blame was laid at him when the results were poor, but someone like Sanchez got off scot-free (without necessarily actually playing better football).
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
It’s nice to have Favre back, even if he is with corporate Borussia this time around
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
It might by unfair, but to me Özil always seemed to be not only shy, but also to have a rather simple mind. Even before these three elaborate statements were issued over a span of more than seven hours, I was sure that he is to a high extent influenced and perhaps even instrumentalised by his current handlers. Being a mere pawn in an unforgiving game, I feel some compassion for Özil, although he is still to blame for what he does and what is published under his name.
The Özil discussion shows precisely what went wrong in Germany. The integration of a large number of migrants has not been successful (like in other Western European countries), which is not surprising given such a difficult and complex task. But at least in Germany, those who dare to criticise reactionary religious and cultural beliefs of some migrants and the lack of efforts to communicate and uphold the fundamental elements and necessary consequences of the social coexistence in post-war Germany are immediately personally ostracised as racist, Nazis and other hate-mongers, without any sincere discussion. Unfortunately, this one-sided agenda has also affected the DFB, although soccer provides a very easy path of bringing together very different people and thus could be very helpful for our society.
Many second or third generation immigrants do not feel to fit in somewhere completely. I am sure Özil - at least sometimes - found himself stuck in the middle, being considered a "Turk" for many Germans and a "German" for many Turks (who merciless bood him when he played for Germany against Turkey in Berlin in 2010). This situation has rarely been openly discussed in Germany; questioning Özil's identification with Germany has been a taboo instead.
If I lived in a foreign country, I would probably feel very strong about my German heritage. Thus I do not condemn Özil for feeling obviously strong about his Turkish heritage and therefore accepting to meet the Turkish president. However, this meeting with Erdogan was less spontaneous and innocent than Özil's handlers want to make us believe, since Özil, Gündogan and Tosun were well prepared, had their personalised jerseys on hand to pose for many pictures, handing them over to Erdogan.
There is no doubt that Erdogan represents Turkey and thus might be treated with respect as a head-of-state. But the very same Erdogan has been very outspoken against Germany; urging Turko-Germans not to identify themselves with Germany and denouncing Germany even as fascist after being denied to campaign there for Turkish elections (similar to other foreign politicians). I consider Edogan's politics to be extremely aggressive and nationalistic, malevolently abusing the powers given to him after the failed coup d'etat.
While I do not demand from Özil to share this sentiment, I do think that Özil, if he really identified himself with Germany, should have shown some interest for the criticism which came up after him meeting Erdogan. It was only after that meeting that he faced widespread opposition from German fans. Albeit, Özil and his handlers chose not to react. The German team played a horrible World Cup, which most fans did not hold against the players but against Löw and Bierhoff. It's safe to say that the discussion about two players meeting Erdogan did at least serve as a distraction for the German team, but I have not found one single opinion who deemed that incident to be a major factor.
Yesterday, Özil let his handlers denounce the German fans and media as widely racist. While there are certainly some vocal German racists out there, the large majority of fans has supported foreign-heritage players like Khedira, Boateng, Dogan, Mustafi or even Özil himself (not to mention Klose or Podolski) and even foreign-born players like Cacau or Neuville. This accusation is nothing less than an outright lie, since Özil also knows very well that even those Turko-Germans, who chose to play for Turkey (like Sahin or nthe Altintops) have never been specifically booed by German fans.
Moreover, Özil and his handlers refused to deal with the difficulties German fans might have with the anti-German and authoritarian Erdogan, simply portraying such criticism as racism and/or islamophobic. But they made huge efforts to attack Grindel personally - which seems disingenuous to me as well, since Özil knew Grindel's opposition to his actions before the World Cup but had no problem to participate regardless.
It is no surprise that the statements issued under Özil's name drew praise and further anti-German sentiment from the Turkish administration, calling the tweets a shot against fascism. Turkish organisations here in Germany happily chime in, leftist German politicians, journalists and fans do as well. While I do think Grindel handled the whole situation miserably, now I unwillingly have to hope he does not step down (despite all his massive failures), since it would be a kowtow to all those above-mentioned fools.
Özil's detractors always questioned his identification with Germany. He chose not to sing the national anthem, which calls for unity, rightiousness and freedom for Germany by standing together (not anoverly problematic content, to my mind). Now Özil withdraw fron the national team after facing criticism from Germans, without showing any interest for their cause. As soon as he must have realised that his market value in Germany has plummeted, he quits playing for Germany. Özil let his handlers issue his statements, which almost exclusively deal with inner-German issues, solely in English. Thus I feel those detractors may not have been wrong.
Hopefully, now more people see that Özil has not been a good role model for integration. But that was not because of his foreign heritage, but due to his lack of identification with Germany, the country Özil claimed to represent.
Gruß,
BSHH
The Özil discussion shows precisely what went wrong in Germany. The integration of a large number of migrants has not been successful (like in other Western European countries), which is not surprising given such a difficult and complex task. But at least in Germany, those who dare to criticise reactionary religious and cultural beliefs of some migrants and the lack of efforts to communicate and uphold the fundamental elements and necessary consequences of the social coexistence in post-war Germany are immediately personally ostracised as racist, Nazis and other hate-mongers, without any sincere discussion. Unfortunately, this one-sided agenda has also affected the DFB, although soccer provides a very easy path of bringing together very different people and thus could be very helpful for our society.
Many second or third generation immigrants do not feel to fit in somewhere completely. I am sure Özil - at least sometimes - found himself stuck in the middle, being considered a "Turk" for many Germans and a "German" for many Turks (who merciless bood him when he played for Germany against Turkey in Berlin in 2010). This situation has rarely been openly discussed in Germany; questioning Özil's identification with Germany has been a taboo instead.
If I lived in a foreign country, I would probably feel very strong about my German heritage. Thus I do not condemn Özil for feeling obviously strong about his Turkish heritage and therefore accepting to meet the Turkish president. However, this meeting with Erdogan was less spontaneous and innocent than Özil's handlers want to make us believe, since Özil, Gündogan and Tosun were well prepared, had their personalised jerseys on hand to pose for many pictures, handing them over to Erdogan.
There is no doubt that Erdogan represents Turkey and thus might be treated with respect as a head-of-state. But the very same Erdogan has been very outspoken against Germany; urging Turko-Germans not to identify themselves with Germany and denouncing Germany even as fascist after being denied to campaign there for Turkish elections (similar to other foreign politicians). I consider Edogan's politics to be extremely aggressive and nationalistic, malevolently abusing the powers given to him after the failed coup d'etat.
While I do not demand from Özil to share this sentiment, I do think that Özil, if he really identified himself with Germany, should have shown some interest for the criticism which came up after him meeting Erdogan. It was only after that meeting that he faced widespread opposition from German fans. Albeit, Özil and his handlers chose not to react. The German team played a horrible World Cup, which most fans did not hold against the players but against Löw and Bierhoff. It's safe to say that the discussion about two players meeting Erdogan did at least serve as a distraction for the German team, but I have not found one single opinion who deemed that incident to be a major factor.
Yesterday, Özil let his handlers denounce the German fans and media as widely racist. While there are certainly some vocal German racists out there, the large majority of fans has supported foreign-heritage players like Khedira, Boateng, Dogan, Mustafi or even Özil himself (not to mention Klose or Podolski) and even foreign-born players like Cacau or Neuville. This accusation is nothing less than an outright lie, since Özil also knows very well that even those Turko-Germans, who chose to play for Turkey (like Sahin or nthe Altintops) have never been specifically booed by German fans.
Moreover, Özil and his handlers refused to deal with the difficulties German fans might have with the anti-German and authoritarian Erdogan, simply portraying such criticism as racism and/or islamophobic. But they made huge efforts to attack Grindel personally - which seems disingenuous to me as well, since Özil knew Grindel's opposition to his actions before the World Cup but had no problem to participate regardless.
It is no surprise that the statements issued under Özil's name drew praise and further anti-German sentiment from the Turkish administration, calling the tweets a shot against fascism. Turkish organisations here in Germany happily chime in, leftist German politicians, journalists and fans do as well. While I do think Grindel handled the whole situation miserably, now I unwillingly have to hope he does not step down (despite all his massive failures), since it would be a kowtow to all those above-mentioned fools.
Özil's detractors always questioned his identification with Germany. He chose not to sing the national anthem, which calls for unity, rightiousness and freedom for Germany by standing together (not anoverly problematic content, to my mind). Now Özil withdraw fron the national team after facing criticism from Germans, without showing any interest for their cause. As soon as he must have realised that his market value in Germany has plummeted, he quits playing for Germany. Özil let his handlers issue his statements, which almost exclusively deal with inner-German issues, solely in English. Thus I feel those detractors may not have been wrong.
Hopefully, now more people see that Özil has not been a good role model for integration. But that was not because of his foreign heritage, but due to his lack of identification with Germany, the country Özil claimed to represent.
Gruß,
BSHH
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Deficient Mode
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- Mar 25, 2011
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Why does he have to be a symbol for integration? This is why I hate national team football.
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
Assimilate completely, that’s what people mean when they complain about integration.
JoemAvs
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2011
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. No its because he made this statements for his politically illiterate fanboys like yourself to rally behind him and not to the audience he should actually have adressed after the mess he created in Germany (!). Thats why this being in English is a joke.This is a public relations piece by him that had no intention of actually helping to fix things or help defuse the situation (like Gündogan did months ago and why nobody in Germany even talks about him really anymore despite him maybe even being the worse party in that Erdogan PR event).
The only goal of last nights instagram rant was to make him look good and blame everything else for the mess he created. He is not wrong about many things he is saying about Grindel and that he gets an unfair amount of blame and that he has been treated appallingly by a certain subset of the german public.
Still does not change the fact that ultimately he made a gigantic mistake that culminated in this mess and that he still apparantely does not see anything wrong with. Reminds me of Trump a little.
The thing Mesut should have done is to adress this immediately back then (like Gündogan) and help calm down the rhetoric and tense political debate. What he did is duck away, play the victim and pour gasoline on a political climate in Germany that already is very charged right now.
I do not often agree with BILD but today the nailed it with their headline...
EDIT: Assimilation to a certain extent can be expected. It is even necessary right now given how many different people from very different cultures have come to Germany over the last few years.
Atleast it has to go so far that you don't side with Erdogan and his views over the prevailing sentiments in Germany. Especially when it comes to human rights.
Which is a big problem in Germany already when it comes to people with turkish roots which Özil is an ambassador for whether he likes it or not.
DITIB and the Turkish (read: Erdogan) influence on our society right now are under heavy scrutiny especially given recent Turkish election results in Germany
And its not like Özil was forced into being a role model kicking and screaming.
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cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
JoemAvs
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- Jul 2, 2011
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Yeah I haven't found myself agreeing with good old Ulli on much lately since his stint behind bars.
As a Bayern fan I really had hoped that he would not have come back afterwards.
But today I have to agree with him
. Also somewhat funny that he basically leaked that Bayern has specifically targeted Özil and his shortcomings and weaknesses over the last couple of years in their gameplan.And when it comes to Arsenal vs Bayern in the last few years, its hard to argue with the results of that
.
Rob
Registered User
serp
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- Jan 17, 2016
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This is a PR-nightmare. Those idiots Grindel and Bierhoff need to be let go .
Özil shouldn't be let off the hook considering how poorly he handled the whole thing ( Gündogan at least publically spoke about it and i think most people outside the complete morons forgot about him ) but i can't image a worse way to handle this by DFB-executives ( well i can but lets not get into that ) .
Just poorly handled all around. The whole DFB executive team needs to be replaced .
Start from scratch. Grindel especially with all his past baggage ( that was known prior to his election 2016 ) as allways an awful choice. An opportunstic politician without any backbone or sense of loyalty towards anyone but himself.
Özil shouldn't be let off the hook considering how poorly he handled the whole thing ( Gündogan at least publically spoke about it and i think most people outside the complete morons forgot about him ) but i can't image a worse way to handle this by DFB-executives ( well i can but lets not get into that ) .
Just poorly handled all around. The whole DFB executive team needs to be replaced .
Start from scratch. Grindel especially with all his past baggage ( that was known prior to his election 2016 ) as allways an awful choice. An opportunstic politician without any backbone or sense of loyalty towards anyone but himself.
KJS14
Registered User
- Jun 13, 2013
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Those guys sounded like idiots tbh. Like with "Maybe he could make more of an impact by continuing to play like we saw the France team do.." Ozil has already been a key figure in a world cup winning side for Germany and has been praised for his integration in Germany, but it didn't stop the criticisms which stem from his ancestry/religion.
As for the Arsenal supporters that bash Ozil as the scapegoat, I think that's more down to incompetence in analyzing performances than it is racism, but I'm sure its a factor for some of his Arsenal critics as well.
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
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MXD
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Then write in both languages? It's not like Ozil himself wrote all that stuff down.
Eisen
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