German Football 2018/2019

[Eisen]

After today's twitter posting I doubt Mesut Özil will ever play for the German NT again.

And I can't blame him. The DFB has handled this whole situation very bad. Grindel especially.

 

[Deficient Mode]

We have discussed it before, and I still think some kind of blanket assessment of 'peak' defies reality. You don't have to look very far to see that in many leagues the best contributors are around 30 or older. And furthermore, sometimes teams don't just buy players in order to sell them with added value in 2-3 years, they buy them because they want to improve their team this year and next year. If you want to win things, you can't just act as a talent developer for other clubs.

Yes, the guys like Messi and Cristiano who were even better before 30. Sure, the very best players will still be great at 30. Witsel is not that guy. He's not better than Weigl; he's a stopgap while Weigl is injured and recovering - a process which could take the entire year. Meanwhile someone like Max Meyer - whose likely prime years they'd have if they signed him now from 23-26 and who showed he can play very effectively as a defensive midfielder - is still unsigned and without a club, probably available on smaller wages and certainly without a transfer fee.

As I said above, I want the team to have older players. I agree that resale value shouldn't always be the first priority. The problem is that apart from Mkhitaryan or some of the players they bought back like Götze or Kagawa, they've generally done very poorly at finding guys in the 24-27 range. Not even at finding superstar talents on par with their youngsters, but just good contributors. There is also a cost to that 30+ player taking up a roster spot and even getting backup minutes. I've felt that way about Sahin the past couple of years: dread that he'd get minutes in an important game.

 

[Deficient Mode]

After today's twitter posting I doubt Mesut Özil will ever play for the German NT again.

Makes a good point about double standards over Matthäus.

 

[JoemAvs]

Hopefully that ends Özils NT career for good. I never want to see that guy play for our team ever again.

What a disgraceful statement. Yeah sure. You did nothing wrong. Okay. Play the victim. You don't get a free pass for your ridiculously dumb behaviour just because Bierhoff and Grindel and parts of the media are behaving badly as well.
What a joke.

And he did not even have the decency to post it in German.
He should probably just stay in London for good. He seems to like it there and he just ruined his reputation in Germany anyways.

I hope Part III / III involves him announcing his own retirement. I don't want the drama of the DFB having to kick him out. There has been too much drama about this already.


Oh and there is a giant difference between Matthäus and Özil. The worldcup was in Russia organized by Putin for once.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Oh and there is a giant difference between Matthäus and Özil. The worldcup was in Russia organized by Putin for once.

LMAO. Sure thing. I thought the whole issue with Özil was that he propped up a very bad politician by taking a photo with him. Totally different in this case.

 

[JoemAvs]

LMAO. Sure thing. I thought the whole issue with Özil was that he propped up a very bad politician by taking a photo with him. Totally different in this case.

I don't think you quite grasp the political implications here. Are you from Germany?

That is a very simplified and wrong summary of the whole issue.

Also Matthäus is not a current member of our NT about to head into a world cup and he didn't do it as part of a PR event of a despot trying to get elected. He was watching the World Cup (which arguably shouldn't have been in Russia but thats not the point) and then did a photo op. He did not go out of his way to help out a disgusting politician politically.

I also for example have a huge issue with an overwhelming majority of immigrants with a turkish passport in Germany, Netherlands and Austria voting for a despot like Erdogan who is out to destroy everything our society stands for in Germany while enjoying exactly these benefits in Europe. Given that Erdogan now has won multiple elections due to that, I find hat repugnant. And Özil voluntarily campaigned for exactly that kind of behaviour basically and even now does not believe he did anything wrong.

Integration is a huge issue in this country especially now that we have taken in over a million new refugees over the last few years. Now the guy who was getting and gladly accepting awards for being a perfect example of successful integration and the benefits of a multi-cultural society is behaving like this. So yeah. Özil effed up royally. The only winners in this mess are Erdogan and the german right-wing party.

Again. I never liked Özil as a player. Now I also very much dislike him as a person.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Makes a good point about double standards over Matthäus.

Loddar is an idiot and everybody knows it. He can go to North Korea and kiss Kim and nobody would be surprised or even care. Maybe (probably not) the Erdogan crap would be forgiven, but calling out a main sponsor of the NT will kill his career in Germany. Don't mess with DfB.

 

[Bon Esprit]

I don't think you quite grasp the political implications here. Are you from Germany?

That is a very simplified and wrong summary of the whole issue.

Also Matthäus is not a current member of our NT about to head into a world cup and he didn't do it as part of a PR event of a despot trying to get elected. He was watching the World Cup (which arguably shouldn't have been in Russia but thats not the point) and then did a photo op. He did not go out of his way to help out a disgusting politician politically.

I also for example have a huge issue with an overwhelming majority of immigrants with a turkish passport in Germany, Netherlands and Austria voting for a despot like Erdogan who is out to destroy everything our society stands for in Germany while enjoying exactly these benefits in Europe. Given that Erdogan now has won multiple elections due to that, I find hat repugnant. And Özil voluntarily campaigned for exactly that kind of behaviour basically and even now does not believe he did anything wrong.

Integration is a huge issue in this country especially now that we have taken in over a million new refugees over the last few years. Now the guy who was getting and gladly accepting awards for being a perfect example of successful integration and the benefits of a multi-cultural society is behaving like this. So yeah. Özil effed up royally. The only winners in this mess are Erdogan and the german right-wing party.

Again. I never liked Özil as a player. Now I also very much dislike him as a person.

Bingo. Well done.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I don't think you quite grasp the political implications here. Are you from Germany?

That is a very simplified and wrong summary of the whole issue.

Also Matthäus is not a current member of our NT about to head into a world cup and he didn't do it as part of a PR event of a despot trying to get elected. He was watching the World Cup (which arguably shouldn't have been in Russia but thats not the point) and then did a photo op. He did not go out of his way to help out a disgusting politician politically.

I also for example have a huge issue with an overwhelming majority of immigrants with a turkish passport in Germany, Netherlands and Austria voting for a despot like Erdogan who is out to destroy everything our society stands for in Germany while enjoying exactly these benefits in Europe. Given that Erdogan now has won multiple elections due to that, I find hat repugnant. And Özil voluntarily campaigned for exactly that kind of behaviour basically and even now does not believe he did anything wrong.

Integration is a huge issue in this country especially now that we have taken in over a million new refugees over the last few years. Now the guy who was getting and gladly accepting awards for being a perfect example of successful integration and the benefits of a multi-cultural society is behaving like this. So yeah. Özil effed up royally. The only winners in this mess are Erdogan and the german right-wing party.

Again. I never liked Özil as a player. Now I also very much dislike him as a person.

I understand it just fine. It's a win for the AfD only because stooges who only care about the theater of liberal democracy over the material impact of a politician think that Erdogan is a fundamentally more evil person than they could possibly elect. Meanwhile Merkel imposed brutal austerity on Greece and helped turn Libya into a country with open slave markets and an endless civil war just to depose another despot opposed to western interests, and now white Europe is furiously trying to keep out refugees from those countries its collective wars tore apart, and people like you whine that brown and black immigrants to Europe aren't appreciative enough of the prosperity Europe built off the countries that these immigrants left.

 

[Bon Esprit]

I understand it just fine. It's a win for the AfD only because stooges who only care about the theater of liberal democracy over the material impact of a politician think that Erdogan is a fundamentally more evil person than they could possibly elect. Meanwhile Merkel imposed brutal austerity on Greece and helped turn Libya into a country with open slave markets and an endless civil war just to depose another despot opposed to western interests, and now white Europe is furiously trying to keep out refugees from those countries its collective wars tore apart, and people like you whine that brown and black immigrants to Europe aren't appreciative enough of the prosperity Europe built off the countries that these immigrants left.

Boy oh boy, you are way over the top. Afd or "black immigrats" have nothing to do with this case. Özil and Gündogan supported a despot, some may say an islamic fundamentalist. Gündogan is smart enough to calm things down, Özil isn't. On top of that he is embarrassing a major sponsor (Daimler) on twitter. Just for the record: Emre Can didn't participate in the photo shooting. He had the nuts to say NO.

 

[JoemAvs]

I understand it just fine. It's a win for the AfD only because stooges who only care about the theater of liberal democracy over the material impact of a politician think that Erdogan is a fundamentally more evil person than they could possibly elect. Meanwhile Merkel imposed brutal austerity on Greece and helped turn Libya into a country with open slave markets and an endless civil war just to depose another despot opposed to western interests, and now white Europe is furiously trying to keep out refugees from those countries its collective wars tore apart, and people like you whine that brown and black immigrants to Europe aren't appreciative enough of the prosperity Europe built off the countries that these immigrants left.

Well you should probably just stick to sports. Because politically you are clearly out of your depth. Can't blame you for that but one should know his limits.
If you had any clue about german politics, you would know that Germany was basically the only country opposed to the Libya military operation (and caught some flak for it). So you are dead wrong on that one.

Also your take on Merkels Austerity policy is outdated and frankly wrong. I very much dislike Merkel but this was about the stability of the currency union and Greece just now is starting to get back access to the bond markets and just got the last part of the bailout and probably won't need anymore new money afterwards if projections prove to be correct. So ultimately it looks like it has been a rare success for Merkel. Usually her decisions don't look good years after the fact.

The rest of your drivel is honestly not even worth responding to because again you are clearly out of your depth when it comes to politics. And if that was meant as a thinly veiled defense of Erdogan , it would make it even worse. That politician is disgusting and his behaviour over the last few years is not defensible.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Boy oh boy, you are way over the top. Afd or "black immigrats" have nothing to do with this case. Özil and Gündogan supported a despot, some may say an islamic fundamentalist. Gündogan is smart enough to calm things down, Özil isn't. On top of that he is embarrassing a major sponsor (Daimler) on twitter. Just for the record: Emre Can didn't participate in the photo shooting. He had the nuts to say NO.

I'm not talking about this specific case. I'm talking about the larger context in which Erdogate is framed. As was the post to which you said "bingo, well done."

 

[Deficient Mode]

Well you should probably just stick to sports. Because politically you are clearly out of your depth. Can't blame you for that but one should know his limits.
If you had any clue about german politics, you would know that Germany was basically the only country opposed to the Libya military operation (and caught some flak for it). So you are dead wrong on that one.

Also your take on Merkels Austerity policy is outdated and frankly wrong. I very much dislike Merkel but this was about the stability of the currency union and Greece just now is starting to get back access to the bond markets and just got the last part of the bailout and probably won't need anymore new money afterwards if projections prove to be correct. So ultimately it looks like it has been a rare success for Merkel. Usually her decisions don't look good years after the fact.

The rest of your drivel is honestly not even worth responding to because again you are clearly out of your depth when it comes to politics. And if that was meant as a thinly veiled defense of Erdogan , it would make it even worse. That politician is disgusting and his behaviour over the last few years is not defensible.

I'm glad she said she was against it and kept the troops home while she still provided huge quantities of weapons to NATO and funded the civil war. But hey, at least she didn't f*** up as badly as everyone else in NATO.

Oh wow, Greece is finally starting to recover by economic metrics after their actual people suffered in poverty for a decade? Well hurray. She's vindicated now.

I have nothing to say in Erdogan's defense. I'd say anyone who whines that Özil didn't even respond in German isn't worth responding to, either.

 

[JoemAvs]

I'm glad she said she was against it and kept the troops home while she still provided huge quantities of weapons to NATO and funded the civil war. But hey, at least she didn't **** up as badly as everyone else in NATO.

Oh wow, Greece is finally starting to recover by economic metrics after their actual people suffered in poverty for a decade? Well hurray. She's vindicated now.

I have nothing to say in Erdogan's defense. I'd say anyone who whines that Özil didn't even respond in German isn't worth responding to, either.

I am happy to educate you. I am not online as often as I once was before but if you have any questions about politics or other issues you don't know much about, feel free to PM me.

Well I would say it was the UN security council who f***ed up first by legitimizing a military operation but thats beside the point.

This world is ruled by capitalism whether you or me likes it or not. You know who was mainly responsible for the mess in Greece? The Greeks. They shouldn't have gotten themselves admitted to the Euro in the first place and only managed to get in via fudging the numbers. Their depth crisis also was not a result of evil Angela but rather from Greece spending way too much money which came back to haunt them once the crisis hit.
Yeah maybe Germany or better the EU as a whole should have been more forgiving towards Greece but ultimately the stability of the currency union was deemed to be the more important thing and Greece seems to be on the right track now regardless.

Özils beef was mainly with the german NT and its fans. He is a german international and this was an issue regarding german politics.
Him responding in English says it all. There is good reason to "whine" about that.



Oh well..

Does not matter now. Özil just announced his retirement and hopefully his comments will get Grindel canned as well. If that happens atleast something good will have come from this mess.

I am glad that this is over now and that Mesut and the NT will be able to move on.

 

[Bon Esprit]

After his twitter rant it was clear he'd retire. Good riddance, gtfo, you tool.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Good for Özil.

 

[Cassano]

Good, Germany doesn't deserve him.

 

[Luigi Habs]

Hopefully that ends Özils NT career for good. I never want to see that guy play for our team ever again.

What a disgraceful statement. Yeah sure. You did nothing wrong. Okay. Play the victim. You don't get a free pass for your ridiculously dumb behaviour just because Bierhoff and Grindel and parts of the media are behaving badly as well.
What a joke.

And he did not even have the decency to post it in German.
He should probably just stay in London for good. He seems to like it there and he just ruined his reputation in Germany anyways.

I hope Part III / III involves him announcing his own retirement. I don't want the drama of the DFB having to kick him out. There has been too much drama about this already.


Oh and there is a giant difference between Matthäus and Özil. The worldcup was in Russia organized by Putin for once.

Disgraceful statement? Really? Everything he said is 100% correct.

It was disgraceful how all the blame was put on Ozil. No criticism on Muller, Werner, Hummels, Kroos or Draxler. I mean ever Bierhoff singled out Ozil. It was the easy target to justify their failure.

Ozil has always been a great gentleman. I’m glad he finally said what he really wanted to say.

 

[cgf]

Good for Özil.

Yeah, he deserves so much better. We're a poorer team without him & a worse NT for the disgraceful way he has been scapegoated.

At least the DFB is maintaining its decades-long tradition of cowardly BS forcing great players out of the NT prematurely.

 

[cgf]

Good, Germany doesn't deserve him.

Not this side of Germany. This why it's important that everyone who can, votes against the AfD.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Disgraceful statement? Really? Everything he said is 100% correct.

It was disgraceful how all the blame was put on Ozil. No criticism on Muller, Werner, Hummels, Kroos or Draxler. I mean ever Bierhoff singled out Ozil. It was the easy target to justify their failure.

Ozil has always been a great gentleman. I’m glad he finally said what he really wanted to say.

Get your facts straight. This entire affair has nothing to do with his on-pitch performance. Google Özil/Gündogan/Erdogan. This case is way trickier than North Americans think.

 

[cgf]

Get your facts straight. This entire affair has nothing to do with his on-pitch performance. Google Özil/Gündogan/Erdogan. This case is way trickier than North Americans think.

Using Egdogan gate to excuse the embarrassing incompetence of Jogi & pathetic performances of Muller, Khedira, Draxler, Hummels (in the 1st match), & Gomez is silly. Even to some of us Germans...and not just those of us corrupted by living in NA, like myself.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Not this side of Germany. This why it's important that everyone who can, votes against the AfD.

Afd hate speech is the smallest part of this this crap. Ask people of Syria that got invaded by Erdogan, ask Kurds or journalists. You know it's not that easy. Ozil caused this trouble. and I give his advisers credit to get out of this by telling him to retire. He burned bridges with his twitter posting.

 

[JoemAvs]

Disgraceful statement? Really? Everything he said is 100% correct.

It was disgraceful how all the blame was put on Ozil. No criticism on Muller, Werner, Hummels, Kroos or Draxler. I mean ever Bierhoff singled out Ozil. It was the easy target to justify their failure.

Ozil has always been a great gentleman. I’m glad he finally said what he really wanted to say.

I don't know where you are living but the likes of Müller and Draxler certainly got a lot of criticism as well.

I don't think anyone is saying that Özil was worse on the pitch than these guys. He was not one of our better performers IMO (he might have been against South Korea but he was IMO close to the worst against Mexico which overall puts him above certain guys like Müller or Draxler but certainly below the better players like Reus, Brandt or Neuer)
This whole thing is about what happened pre-tournament and how Özil still is not apologizing for this appaling PR event he did with Erdogan. That was anything but the conduct of a gentleman.
The shitstrom is not about his performance on the pitch (even though that certainly did not help to distract from the Erdogate shit either).

He is not wrong with his comments about Grindel and he certainly is not wrong about the hate he has received from the ultra right. All of these things are ugly and disgraceful.

But so was his behaviour and he is only pointing the finger at others and playing the victim while refusing to apologize or acknowledge his own role in this mess.

Grindel and Bierhoff both should get fired over how they handled this and how they tried to blame Özil for our putrid performances.

But its a good thing that Özil is gone as well because after all that happened, he shouldn't play for Germany either.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Using Egdogan gate to excuse the embarrassing incompetence of Jogi & pathetic performances of Muller, Khedira, Draxler, Hummels (in the 1st match), & Gomez is silly. Even to some of us Germans...and not just those of us corrupted by living in NA, like myself.

Grindel and Löw won't survive this year at DfB. They handled the Özil/Gündogan gate very poorly. And the first round exit, too. Bierhoff will go, too.