George Parros

[Hoople]

OMG, you have certainly made an outstanding case. . What's funny is your example is of a guy who dressed in the cup final, cost them a game and was subsequently scratched. Well-played.

What is funny is that you are an internet poster with an opinion as opposed to a coaching staff and a management staff from Chicago who actually made a decision with Bollig during the regular season and the playoffs.

And won a Cup while doing it.

Damn. Who is more relevant? You? Or Quenneville?

 

[Hoople]

You're free to interpret Bollig's effect on that series any way you like. He played 2 games. One of which they lost and the other which went in triple OT I think. Didn't they need his toughness for all the games ? Or was his effect so longstanding that it kept being felt on the Bruins for the last 4 games ? Or maybe, the Hawks realized that they didn't need a goon to beat the Bruins after those 2 games where they realized that Bollig was useless whatever they initially thought about the need for "toughness" against the Bruins.

You are missing the point. I am not interpreting Bollig's effect on the series.

I am interpreting the fact that a Stanley Cup winning organization had faith in the need to have an enforcer on the team during the season and the playoffs.

That bit of reality contradicts what you and the rest of the anti-enforcer crowd are trying to say regarding having an enforcer in Montreal.

Reality on the ice always trumps an opinion on a hockey message board.

 

[MathMan]

Brandon Bollig has apparently turned into an actual Armstrong-type defensive hockey player. He's probably not the best example.

Right now the Blackhawks are using him by burying him in the defensive zone for 10 minutes a game. His deployment is pretty shocking actually. He's got the lowest offensive-to-defensive faceoff ratio in the league -- in other words he's sent out for one faceoff in the O-zone for every four he takes in the D-zone. Quenneville seems to think he has defensive chops, judging by this extreme usage.

This is not what you get a pure enforcer to do. Minus the penalty-killing, it's actually not dissimilar to the way the Habs' fourth line was used last year, and can't really do this year when using Parros because he's such a liability.

 

[CGG]

You have an over active imagination.

Parros has his role, if they have too many forwards one will be set down (Bournival) or one traded(Bourque Gionta Briere?)

I definitely want him in there against Toronto Ottawa Buffalo and Boston

No, I want hockey players in the lineup against Toronto Ottawa Buffalo. If it means Frazer McLaren has no one to fight, who cares really. I cringe every time Parros steps on the ice, because chances are we're about to get scored on. There is no possible way his presence in the lineup improves our chances of winning over someone like Gionta or Bournival or even Leblanc or Naatinen or some random 3rd line ECHLer.

Expect to see Parros on waivers before the trade deadline next week. And expect no one to touch him, he's garbage now.

 

[Sorinth]

You are missing the point. I am not interpreting Bollig's effect on the series.

I am interpreting the fact that a Stanley Cup winning organization had faith in the need to have an enforcer on the team during the season and the playoffs.

That bit of reality contradicts what you and the rest of the anti-enforcer crowd are trying to say regarding having an enforcer in Montreal.

Reality on the ice always trumps an opinion on a hockey message board.

But your ignoring the fact that 2 games later that same organization realized it had made a terrible mistake in putting their faith in having an enforcer in the SCF.

That bit of reality contradicts what you and the rest of the pro-enforcer crowd are trying to say regarding having an enforcer in Montreal.

Reality on the ice always trumps an opinion on a hockey message board.

 

[overlords]

I think these fans want more Halperns and Moores on our 4th line. Help us all.

A younger Halpern or current Dominic Moore on our 4th? Who the **** doesn't want that? Hand in your habs fan membership papers if you're in that group.

 

[Hoople]

Brandon Bollig has apparently turned into an actual Armstrong-type defensive hockey player. He's probably not the best example.

Right now the Blackhawks are using him by burying him in the defensive zone for 10 minutes a game. His deployment is pretty shocking actually. He's got the lowest offensive-to-defensive faceoff ratio in the league -- in other words he's sent out for one faceoff in the O-zone for every four he takes in the D-zone. Quenneville seems to think he has defensive chops, judging by this extreme usage.

This is not what you get a pure enforcer to do. Minus the penalty-killing, it's actually not dissimilar to the way the Habs' fourth line was used last year, and can't really do this year when using Parros because he's such a liability.

Context counts. I am referring to last season and what Bollig's stats were and the role he played for Chicago. Last season.

 

[Hoople]

But your ignoring the fact that 2 games later that same organization realized it had made a terrible mistake in putting their faith in having an enforcer in the SCF.

That bit of reality contradicts what you and the rest of the pro-enforcer crowd are trying to say regarding having an enforcer in Montreal.

Reality on the ice always trumps an opinion on a hockey message board.

You are missing the point.

 

[WeThreeKings]

A younger Halpern or current Dominic Moore on our 4th? Who the **** doesn't want that? Hand in your habs fan membership papers if you're in that group.

No idea to this day why we didn't keep Moore around after his play-off run with us.

 

[JAVO16]

Brandon Bollig has apparently turned into an actual Armstrong-type defensive hockey player. He's probably not the best example.

Right now the Blackhawks are using him by burying him in the defensive zone for 10 minutes a game. His deployment is pretty shocking actually. He's got the lowest offensive-to-defensive faceoff ratio in the league -- in other words he's sent out for one faceoff in the O-zone for every four he takes in the D-zone. Quenneville seems to think he has defensive chops, judging by this extreme usage.

This is not what you get a pure enforcer to do. Minus the penalty-killing, it's actually not dissimilar to the way the Habs' fourth line was used last year, and can't really do this year when using Parros because he's such a liability.

Yeah, I was looking at his TOI, Corsi Rel QoC, zone starts and his point production this year and I was surprised to see that Bollig seemed to actually be turning into a pretty good depth player regardless of his pugilistic abilities. I don't think he was trusted this much in the playoffs last year though.

 

[JAVO16]

You are missing the point.

I see that he was part of the starting lineup during the first two games. I also see that he was taken out of it for the remainder of the series. What I interpret is that the coaching staff thought they needed Bollig's toughness before the series because of the Bruins' reputation and that they trusted him enough to start the series, but that they then realized that they didn't need the fighting element he brought to the game, even in a physical SC final. If anything, this shows that a goon is practically never needed in the playoffs.

 

[sandysan]

I see that he was part of the starting lineup during the first two games. I also see that he was taken out of it for the remainder of the series. What I interpret is that the coaching staff thought they needed Bollig's toughness before the series because of the Bruins' reputation and that they trusted him enough to start the series, but that they then realized that they didn't need the fighting element he brought to the game, even in a physical SC final. If anything, this shows that a goon is practically never needed in the playoffs.

seeing a uber green defenseman, bouillion, moen, white and armstrong get ragdolled by the GD ottawa senators says different.

there is a BIG difference between " practically never needed" and
" never needed" and if he's playing 5 min a game ( likely less in the playoffs) whose icetime is he stealing precisely ?

in game the game between the sens and rangers when brian boyle decided to get froggy with karlsson, matt carkner was not dressed. the next game he was, how many more liberties did boyle take on karlsson after that ?

even in the absolutely unlikely event things get out of hand, IF they do the habs are WOEFULLY suited to respond. As a habs fan, I'm tired of other teams realising that if things do get out of hand they have nothing to fear from the habs aside from Brandon prust punching up in weight, unless his shoulder is wonky.

We are going to play the leafs and the bruins and some big physical teams from the west in this stretch, I hope that parros dresses because I have seen what happens when he doesnt.

 

[Sorinth]

seeing a uber green defenseman, bouillion, moen, white and armstrong get ragdolled by the GD ottawa senators says different.

there is a BIG difference between " practically never needed" and
" never needed" and if he's playing 5 min a game ( likely less in the playoffs) whose icetime is he stealing precisely ?

in game the game between the sens and rangers when brian boyle decided to get froggy with karlsson, matt carkner was not dressed. the next game he was, how many more liberties did boyle take on karlsson after that ?

even in the absolutely unlikely event things get out of hand, IF they do the habs are WOEFULLY suited to respond. As a habs fan, I'm tired of other teams realising that if things do get out of hand they have nothing to fear from the habs aside from Brandon prust punching up in weight, unless his shoulder is wonky.

We are going to play the leafs and the bruins and some big physical teams from the west in this stretch, I hope that parros dresses because I have seen what happens when he doesnt.

How do you explain us beating the Bruins in the playoffs many times without an enforcer.

You want a player that puts fear into other teams? Hate to break it to you but that player doesn't exist. Do you really think Plekanec fears a guy like John Scott?

We didn't lose to Ottawa because they gooned it up and we didn't respond (We actually started most of the fights by the way) we lost because we couldn't solve Anderson.

 

[Sorinth]

You are missing the point.

Your point was a good team made a mistake by dressing an enforcer to deal with Boston. Therefore we should make the same mistake and dress an enforcer against teams like Boston.

 

[habsfanatics*]

What is funny is that you are an internet poster with an opinion as opposed to a coaching staff and a management staff from Chicago who actually made a decision with Bollig during the regular season and the playoffs.

And won a Cup while doing it.

Damn. Who is more relevant? You? Or Quenneville?

Appeal to authority, another convincing argument, you're on a roll with these.

 

[sandysan]

How do you explain us beating the Bruins in the playoffs many times without an enforcer.

You want a player that puts fear into other teams? Hate to break it to you but that player doesn't exist. Do you really think Plekanec fears a guy like John Scott?

We didn't lose to Ottawa because they gooned it up and we didn't respond (We actually started most of the fights by the way) we lost because we couldn't solve Anderson.

I've NEVER said we have to have guys drop the gloves, if we can play and not drop them, fine by me.

But I dont get to impose the " no fighting" mantra from above. IF ( and even if the if is remote) things go south our team is simply incapable of defending itself. We are way too small, way too soft.

If things start to get out of hand, we send stashy out who takes on the heavy, if they keep pressing the issue Prust can go with the next guy on the list. Sans parros their HW easily dispatches a willing prust and then their upper-middle gets who ? Ryan white ? Travis Moen ? ooooh I can hear them shaking from here.

If parros dresses and never sees the ice, the rest of the team has to make up a whole WHOPPING 5 minutes, on a team where Galchenyuk and eller dont get a freaking shift in OT.

if he doesnt dress and things go south we are telling out players you are going to have to go knowing you are going to get your behind handed to you. that players like subban will have to dance or turtle against players like orr. Have we not learned anything ?

I'd be perfectly happy dressing parros and have him take no shifts for the entire playoffs. Who is he going to prevent from playing ? Guys from hamilton who also can score and also cant fight ? more ineffective perimeter players ?

 

[sandysan]

How do you explain us beating the Bruins in the playoffs many times without an enforcer.

You want a player that puts fear into other teams? Hate to break it to you but that player doesn't exist. Do you really think Plekanec fears a guy like John Scott?

We didn't lose to Ottawa because they gooned it up and we didn't respond (We actually started most of the fights by the way) we lost because we couldn't solve Anderson.

We tried to send a mesage and got bested in 4 fights and one was a generous draw.

This proves my point, even when we started the fights to send messages, teams dont care because we suck at fighting. The message we want to sent is " were not going away, we are willing to fight for success". The recipent gets the following message " we are soft, you have nothing to fear, please hammer dont hurt us" no one fears the habs, play however you like. Have guys make questionable hits on talent and if the habs take offense, no big deal because if it comes to a fight the habs are shooting blanks.

 

[izzy75]

and things go south we are telling out players you are going to have to go knowing you are going to get your behind handed to you

Watching those infamous games - Boston, Toronto, Ottawa and others - made me sick to my stomach.

But whoo boy the anti-fighting crowd would be singing a different tune if one our players got injured in one of those melees. Er, forget that. There were injuries. I'm sure 911 operators were sure busy that night.

 

[JAVO16]

seeing a uber green defenseman, bouillion, moen, white and armstrong get ragdolled by the GD ottawa senators says different.

there is a BIG difference between " practically never needed" and
" never needed" and if he's playing 5 min a game ( likely less in the playoffs) whose icetime is he stealing precisely ?

in game the game between the sens and rangers when brian boyle decided to get froggy with karlsson, matt carkner was not dressed. the next game he was, how many more liberties did boyle take on karlsson after that ?

even in the absolutely unlikely event things get out of hand, IF they do the habs are WOEFULLY suited to respond. As a habs fan, I'm tired of other teams realising that if things do get out of hand they have nothing to fear from the habs aside from Brandon prust punching up in weight, unless his shoulder is wonky.

We are going to play the leafs and the bruins and some big physical teams from the west in this stretch, I hope that parros dresses because I have seen what happens when he doesnt.

We where losing the game convincingly. The fact that we lost the fights at the end was nothing but a stupid show of petulance by our team. Had we won the fights, our team would still have lost the game. Who knows, we might've come out stronger the next game, but losing and getting humiliated in the actual hockey game should be more than enough to motivate the team. I was very disappointed by what I saw on the hockey side of things and on the character side of things by our team that night.

Edit: And how about that, it was needed because we initiated the fight !

We tried to send a mesage and got bested in 4 fights and one was a generous draw.

This proves my point, even when we started the fights to send messages, teams dont care because we suck at fighting. The message we want to sent is " were not going away, we are willing to fight for success". The recipent gets the following message " we are soft, you have nothing to fear, please hammer dont hurt us" no one fears the habs, play however you like. Have guys make questionable hits on talent and if the habs take offense, no big deal because if it comes to a fight the habs are shooting blanks.

No, the only message I see here is: " You might be better than us at this hockey thing, but look here, we'll try to beat you at ice boxing to make up for it !" Anyone that actually approves of this in any shape or form has social behavior issues.

 

[sandysan]

We where losing the game convincingly. The fact that we lost the fights at the end was nothing but a stupid show of petulance by our team. Had we won the fights, our team would still have lost the game. Who knows, we might've come out stronger the next game, but losing and getting humiliated in the actual hockey game should be more than enough to motivate the team. I was very disappointed by what I saw on the hockey side of things and on the character side of things by our team that night.



No, the only message I see here is: " You might be better than us at this hockey thing, but look here, we'll try to beat you at ice boxing to make up for it !" Anyone that actually approves of this in any shape or form has social behavior issues.

cant beat em in the alley cant beat em on the ice.

hockey is a physical game. Teams that are small ( like the habs) cannot compete against bigger teams physically. This is NOT a secret, and if an opponent wants to gain an advantage they will exploit this advantage in size. But where does it stop ? If they start laying it on and the habs start to wilt, what do you think the consequences are ? that they will simply stop and lay off the physicality or will they step it up ?

And anyone who thinks that bigger teams will not leverage this advantage against smaller teams should watch more hockey lest they be surprised about something that has existed since the games inception.

If you accept that fights might happen in hockey ( they do) if you accept that the habs cannot answer if called ( they can't) then you are advocating being ok with the habs bringing spoons to a gun fight then we are going to get a whole lot more of what we have already seen.

But thanks for the psychoanalysis.

 

[JAVO16]

The fact that the Habs are a small team is besides the point. Having one enforcer doesn't do jack**** to change that fact. They will still lose their board battles and will still get hit when the opportunity arises for the other team to do so. The intelligent solution is to draft/trade to have a bigger team, not to hire an enforcer. This is a completely other matter in any case. It's about winning hockey games between the whistles, not the ridiculous sideshow that happens afterward.

Fights happen I agree, but when has any of the HW enforcers gone after a small non-fighter ? It doesn't happen (unless your count the Thornton sucker punch which he got punished hard for anyway).

Also, I'd be all for an automatic ejection and possibly a one game suspension for any fight (though I suspect that the ejection would be enough) because I despise the logic behind fights. That would eliminate goons from our sport and guys going at it would need to have a real good reason in the heat of the moment to do so (which would give us good fights too by the way).

 

[Hoople]

Appeal to authority, another convincing argument, you're on a roll with these.

My apologies to you then. I did not realize you were smarter than Quenneville.

You should become an NHL coach.

 

[sandysan]

The fact that the Habs are a small team is besides the point. Having one enforcer doesn't do jack**** to change that fact. They will still lose their board battles and will still get hit when the opportunity arises for the other team to do so. The intelligent solution is to draft/trade to have a bigger team, not to hire an enforcer. This is a completely other matter in any case. It's about winning hockey games between the whistles, not the ridiculous sideshow that happens afterward.

Fights happen I agree, but when has any of the HW enforcers gone after a small non-fighter ? It doesn't happen (unless your count the Thornton sucker punch which he got punished hard for anyway).

Also, I'd be all for an automatic ejection and possibly a one game suspension for any fight (though I suspect that the ejection would be enough) because I despise the logic behind fights. That would eliminate goons from our sport and guys going at it would need to have a real good reason in the heat of the moment to do so (which would give us good fights too by the way).

Having a heavy weight means that our fourth line guys fight in their weight class's. This started with prust who started to change the soft. Then prust had to take on all comers and got best injured going against monsters. We are not currently all that different pugilustically a heavy, a solid tweener ( prust) sleeping giant ( murray) and a couple of middles ( moen,white). Not great but not awful. Remove parris everyone ends up punching above their weight class. Not pretty.

As to what you would do about fights, I have but one question. Why not wish for a pony while you are at it?

 

[Hoople]

I see that he was part of the starting lineup during the first two games. I also see that he was taken out of it for the remainder of the series. What I interpret is that the coaching staff thought they needed Bollig's toughness before the series because of the Bruins' reputation and that they trusted him enough to start the series, but that they then realized that they didn't need the fighting element he brought to the game, even in a physical SC final. If anything, this shows that a goon is practically never needed in the playoffs.

The goalposts keep getting shifted from your side.

You are referencing Bollig's playoff performance. I simply referred to Bollig being in the playoffs as an extreme.

The real issue is that the OP is complaining about having a player like Parros during the regular season.

Chicago, the SC champion, had Bollig in the lineup during the regular season............AND........in two playoff series. Without Bollig having any Positive impact on the scoreboard.



Some people in Montreal scream that enforcers are useless.

Stanley Cup champion Chicago disagrees and won a Cup with one.

That's the point many are ignoring.

 

[Tucker316*]

A younger Halpern or current Dominic Moore on our 4th? Who the **** doesn't want that? Hand in your habs fan membership papers if you're in that group.

Sorry, I'll take Weise, White, Prust and Parros on a 4th any time over them.