News Article: Geoff Molson re-affirms confidence in Marc Bergevin, will not hire a president of hockey operations

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1909

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We had an exceptional bilingual candidate in house in Julien Brisebois, they were available because we let them go since we were too dumb to move on to him when it was apparent he should be the successor.

And while yes, the majority of executives are mediocre and suffer from a similar problem (ex hockey players who get thrust up the corporate ladder due to relationships and not ability); you aren't noting one big difference.

The fact our bilingual pool is almost uniquely coming up through the QMJHL and Hockey-Quebec. Meaning that we are constantly hiring from the same philosophies and people coming up with the same ideologies. Learning the game the same way and applying those same tenants.

It's not a coincidence that if you blurred out the face of the coach behind the bench that you wouldn't find huge differences between Vigneault, Therrien, Julien and Martin.

Julien and Martin are Franco-Ontarians who played their hockey outside Quebec and the Q. Martin has coached teams in the OHL, too.

Yes, they missed badly on BriseBois. Thanks to Serge Savard and his great advice to hire Bergevin.
 
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WeThreeKings

Habs cup - its in the BAG
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Julien and Martin are Franco-Ontarians who played their hockey outside Quebec and the Q. Martin has coached teams in the OHL, too.

Yes, they missed badly on BriseBois. Thanks to Serge Savard and his great advice to hire Bergevin.

Julien began coaching in the Q though
upload_2021-11-9_14-7-36.png


You're right on Jacques Martin - he just apparently loved boring defensive hockey haha
 
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JoelWarlord

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May 7, 2012
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I really just think all this language stuff is overblown. It's hard for me to look at Martin, Carbonneau, Vigneault, Therrien, Julien, and Ducharme and conclude that the Canadiens have had worse coaches over the past 20 or so years than the average franchise in this league. Julien is a very good coach, Vigneault was excellent in Vancouver, I think Martin was solid, and the rest are varying degrees of mediocre to OK (Ducharme is trending towards the first true dud IMO but it's still early). Coaching hasn't been a point of excellence for this team, but I think a lot of teams have had a lot of worse coaches than Julien, Vigneault, and Martin over the past 20 years. Also disagree with the characterization of Martin as an exclusively defensive coach, when he had the horses in Ottawa that wasn't really the case.

I also think there's a degree of an advantage where the Canadiens are the only ones really competing in the Quebec market for coaches and GMs and get their pick of guys who are otherwise outsiders. I'm not really convinced that we're better off competing for the same WHL/OHL/NCAA circlejerk as the other 31 teams in the league than basically having our pick of QMJHL up and coming talent, nor do I think there's going to be inherently more tactical diversity hiring from that pool.

People keep going on about "the most competent candidate" as if there was a shelf stacked with exceptional candidates that the Habs are ignoring. The reality is that the overwhelming majority of management and coaching personalities in the NHL are mediocre and the Habs limiting themselves to hiring only from a smaller wing in that gallery of mediocrity does not really have any negative effect.
Yep. I agree with the principle of just hiring the best available person for the job, but I think it's drastically overblown as if it's the fatal flaw dooming this franchise. The GM market in the NHL is just extremely inefficient, there's one European GM, no women, only two European coaches ever, etc. and that's just looking at the "hockey people" talent pools which are ignored without even beginning to consider all the skilled managers running basketball/baseball/football/soccer teams or large companies.

There's only nine GMs in the league who aren't ex-pro hockey players, and a few of those guys are only GMs because they have famous dads. I don't think our strategy of hiring hockey lifers has been any worse than anyone else's strategy of hiring hockey lifers, and if we want to actually get "the best candidate for the job" I find it really hard to believe there isn't someone out there running a big company in Quebec or France or Francophone Africa or whatever who would be a better manager than the vast majority of ex-player GMs around the league who stopped going to school when they were 15. Recruiting from outside the group of hockey lifers (or even just making an effort to hire hockey lifers who are women or from Europe) would be far more efficient than opening up your search to just include Anglophone and Francophone hockey men.
 
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Habs Halifax

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Well we know what binman brings to the table. Expand the search for a GM to all of hockeydom. Its not rocket science. And no I don't know the name of some hotshot, there are lots of head hunting companies out there, hire one to find a GM. Its not hard to improve on what we have. Binman was a big downgrade on Gauthier.

Only the disgruntled fans in Montreal feel that way about Bergevin. Among his peers, he's respected. Robitaille quote..

“Marc is a very good GM in the NHL, one of the best,” continued Robitaille. When you look at his transaction history, he did some really good things. He has good vision. He’s a talented manager and he knows everyone in the NHL. In my eyes, he is clearly among the top ten in his profession. ”

Robitaille > CHwest
 

WeThreeKings

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Only the disgruntled fans in Montreal feel that way about Bergevin. Among his peers, he's respected. Robitaille quote..

“Marc is a very good GM in the NHL, one of the best,” continued Robitaille. When you look at his transaction history, he did some really good things. He has good vision. He’s a talented manager and he knows everyone in the NHL. In my eyes, he is clearly among the top ten in his profession. ”

Robitaille > CHwest

Yikes - this is your argument in defense of Bergevin?
 
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Habs Halifax

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Yikes - this is your argument in defense of Bergevin?

In defense that he is not a horrible GM yes. Do I personally think he is top 10? Not really but I do think he is above average but with flaws (Savard brain cramp). I'm open for a change but with me, it starts with the President seat. Bobby Smith! He understands both business and hockey operations.
 

CHwest

Talent sets the floor, character sets the ceiling.
May 24, 2011
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Only the disgruntled fans in Montreal feel that way about Bergevin. Among his peers, he's respected. Robitaille quote..

“Marc is a very good GM in the NHL, one of the best,” continued Robitaille. When you look at his transaction history, he did some really good things. He has good vision. He’s a talented manager and he knows everyone in the NHL. In my eyes, he is clearly among the top ten in his profession. ”

Robitaille > CHwest
The results say otherwise.
 

417

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In defense that he is not a horrible GM yes. Do I personally think he is top 10? Not really but I do think he is above average but with flaws (Savard brain cramp). I'm open for a change but with me, it starts with the President seat. Bobby Smith! He understands both business and hockey operations.
Is there even a list of top 10 GMs lol

It's all subjective...it's what have you done for me lately.

I've read people call Dorion everything from one of the brightest GMs/scouts in the league, to a complete clown and back again.

Last year Bergevin was a finalist for GM of the year...today he might lose his job.

Who really cares.

The best GM is the latest one to have won the Cup.
 

Habs Halifax

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Is there even a list of top 10 GMs lol

It's all subjective...it's what have you done for me lately.

I've read people call Dorion everything from one of the brightest GMs/scouts in the league, to a complete clown and back again.

Last year Bergevin was a finalist for GM of the year...today he might lose his job.

Who really cares.

The best GM is the latest one to have won the Cup.

The point is one of his peers is saying he is better than what is perceived by our fan base. I don't think he is a genius GM but I do think he has matured into a solid one. He's still making some moves I would avoid though. Doesn't mean he is an idiot. That's the point and basically what LR was talking about.
 

417

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The point is one of his peers is saying he is better than what is perceived by our fan base. I don't think he is a genius GM but I do think he has matured into a solid one. He's still making some moves I would avoid though. Doesn't mean he is an idiot. That's the point and basically what LR was talking about.
Yeah I get that...but I just don't think any of these "labels" matter.
 

Vachon23

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Oct 14, 2015
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Is there even a list of top 10 GMs lol

It's all subjective...it's what have you done for me lately.

I've read people call Dorion everything from one of the brightest GMs/scouts in the league, to a complete clown and back again.

Last year Bergevin was a finalist for GM of the year...today he might lose his job.

Who really cares.

The best GM is the latest one to have won the Cup.
Sakic first 3 yrs, he was considered as a clown and just a good hockey player. He's now considerate in the top 5 in the league so yes, it can change by matter of time. You're never as bad as people says and you're never as good as people says
 
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Mario le Magnifique

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Please for the love of God change this thread's title to 'geoff Molson discussion' 'cause I almost got PTSD from reading this headline this morning. Not good for my mental health. #fireeveryone
 

CHwest

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It's deeper in context than that.
How so? A person from Quebec pumps another Quebecers tires, so what? He has been here how many years? We are at the cap, no game changers in the system and none on the horizon. The team is worse off than when he started. We have been a bubble team for ever, struggling to make the playoffs. If Robitaille thinks so highly of him he can have him, please take him. Every year you tell us about our great prospects, I don't see it. Suzuki is the only first line player he has developed in 10 yrs, and he wasn't drafted by us. I don't see another first liner, forward or defense or goal for that matter. That is pathetic.
 

Habs Halifax

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How so? A person from Quebec pumps another Quebecers tires, so what? He has been here how many years? We are at the cap, no game changers in the system and none on the horizon. The team is worse off than when he started. We have been a bubble team for ever, struggling to make the playoffs. If Robitaille thinks so highly of him he can have him, please take him. Every year you tell us about our great prospects, I don't see it. Suzuki is the only first line player he has developed in 10 yrs, and he wasn't drafted by us. I don't see another first liner, forward or defense or goal for that matter. That is pathetic.

This coming from you who just recently said you cheered for us to loose all of last year and it grew on you. You must really hate Bergevin and the players after last season and now your out for revenge after 14 miserable games. Results from season to season vary and this season is not even over yet. It's been a little rollercoaster of ups and down and now that we are down, you, I, and others want us to stay. I just don't think it works that way bud. So yeah, it's deeper in context than predicting our faith for the next 5 years cause you have seen 14 games this year.

A complete sell of liquidation sale with the purpose of tanking is a dream. It might be our faith moving forward but it's guess work. This is not some CHL junior team.
 

Miller Time

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Sep 16, 2004
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How so? A person from Quebec pumps another Quebecers tires, so what? He has been here how many years? We are at the cap, no game changers in the system and none on the horizon. The team is worse off than when he started. We have been a bubble team for ever, struggling to make the playoffs. If Robitaille thinks so highly of him he can have him, please take him. Every year you tell us about our great prospects, I don't see it. Suzuki is the only first line player he has developed in 10 yrs, and he wasn't drafted by us. I don't see another first liner, forward or defense or goal for that matter. That is pathetic.

the appeal to authority bias is a long-standing way to avoid evaluating MB based on his tenure/results.

there are zero GMs in hockey that one couldn't find a positive sound byte from one of his peers/pals... it's not an "old boys club" for nothing lol
 

Walrus26

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Only the disgruntled fans in Montreal feel that way about Bergevin. Among his peers, he's respected. Robitaille quote..

“Marc is a very good GM in the NHL, one of the best,” continued Robitaille. When you look at his transaction history, he did some really good things. He has good vision. He’s a talented manager and he knows everyone in the NHL. In my eyes, he is clearly among the top ten in his profession. ”

Robitaille > CHwest

Great arguement for support for concussed hockey veterans right there.
 
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Wats

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Only the disgruntled fans in Montreal feel that way about Bergevin. Among his peers, he's respected. Robitaille quote..

“Marc is a very good GM in the NHL, one of the best,” continued Robitaille. When you look at his transaction history, he did some really good things. He has good vision. He’s a talented manager and he knows everyone in the NHL. In my eyes, he is clearly among the top ten in his profession. ”

Robitaille > CHwest

What do you think he'll say about any other GM he's asked about, ie Dorion/Dubas.
 

Walrus26

Wearing a Habs Toque in England.
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Nah, it's pretty simple. It's evidence from NHL management that Bergevin is not this complete idiot.

I'd agree that Bergevin isn't a complete idiot and not a total incompetent in his role. However, his overall body of work -as measured by the actual results on the ice as a whole over his tenure - clearly show that he isn't good. Even mediocre performers are capable of doing something great once in a while (assembling a seriously mean D core last year and being able to play to their strengths in the playoffs, for example, and dealing Patches for the return he got).

The teams he's had total control over building for all these years have delivered, on average, not very much. That's the only measure that matters after this length of time.
 

Sasha Orlov

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Only the disgruntled fans in Montreal feel that way about Bergevin. Among his peers, he's respected. Robitaille quote..

“Marc is a very good GM in the NHL, one of the best,” continued Robitaille. When you look at his transaction history, he did some really good things. He has good vision. He’s a talented manager and he knows everyone in the NHL. In my eyes, he is clearly among the top ten in his profession. ”

Robitaille > CHwest
This is a fallacy and Robitaille is delusional if he actually believes this
 
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