Waived: Gelinas [Cleared]

[McMetal]

The trade is worse in hindsight than it was at the time. People complain bitterly about Sakic doing nothing to improve the defense, but when he buys low on a guy with NHL experience who has a chance to solidify our abysmal bottom pair, nobody is happy. Yes, he picked the wrong guy, clearly, but as somebody pointed out that's more on our pro scouting department than on Sakic.

Yes, third round picks have value, nobody is denying that. But a third round pick for a bottom pair defenseman now isn't a bad deal on the face of it. In hindsight now it's clear that Gelinas is not the answer, but I'm not upset that we tried.

 

[BoxOfChocolates]

The trade is worse in hindsight than it was at the time. People complain bitterly about Sakic doing nothing to improve the defense, but when he buys low on a guy with NHL experience who has a chance to solidify our abysmal bottom pair, nobody is happy. Yes, he picked the wrong guy, clearly, but as somebody pointed out that's more on our pro scouting department than on Sakic.

Yes, third round picks have value, nobody is denying that. But a third round pick for a bottom pair defenseman now isn't a bad deal on the face of it. In hindsight now it's clear that Gelinas is not the answer, but I'm not upset that we tried.

Im with you. I'd rather the team be pro-active in looking around for (young) solutions and taking a chance on a guy like Gelinas, over sitting around doing anything and panicking on July 1st with a 35+ contract.

 

[Sea Eagles]

He won't get claimed. Seriously. You could waive 4/5 th's of our roster and they cruise through. I was surprised Mitchell wasn't claimed to be honest....but Eric Gelinas?

 

[Foppa]

Im with you. I'd rather the team be pro-active in looking around for (young) solutions and taking a chance on a guy like Gelinas, over sitting around doing anything and panicking on July 1st with a 35+ contract.

You say that though as if there was some unlocked upside in Gelinas that somehow the Avs were going to unlock. It was clear as day what Gelinas was and what his limitations were well before we traded for him. He's always been a pretty fringe-y NHLer in terms of total make-up that happens to have one really outstanding quality that could keep him employed at the NHL level. And we didn't even use it.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Matthias was fine because he was a player type they needed, came cheaply and it gave them a chance to try to keep him.

It's the one move that made sense.

They should have quit while they were ahead. And he definitely told the DP multiple times he wanted to come back but Sakic said he was going to let him see the market first and circle back. There was no dead set on Canada the whole time. But that's in the past.

Picks for reclaimation projects make more sense when it's a two way street, not an exit only door from this organization. An asset poor org can't just keep giving out handouts even if they aren't large pieces. I never liked it at the time because it was needless and people complain all the time about McLeod, Mitchell and the cap they are sucking up but over 1.5M for Gelinas is definitely something that had implications on what they could do with the cap space this season.

 

[dahrougem2]

They should have quit while they were ahead. And he definitely told the DP multiple times he wanted to come back but Sakic said he was going to let him see the market first and circle back. There was no dead set on Canada the whole time. But that's in the past.

Picks for reclaimation projects make more sense when it's a two way street, not an exit only door from this organization. An asset poor org can't just keep giving out handouts even if they aren't large pieces. I never liked it at the time because it was needless and people complain all the time about McLeod, Mitchell and the cap they are sucking up but over 1.5M for Gelinas is definitely something that had implications on what they could do with the cap space this season.

When you hear Matthias talk about signing in Winnipeg and how he was looking forward to coming back to Canada, I think it was a given he was going to sign with a Canadian team. He may have said the politically correct thing to the DP, but deep down I believe he wanted to go back to Canada

 

[henchman21]

They should have quit while they were ahead. And he definitely told the DP multiple times he wanted to come back but Sakic said he was going to let him see the market first and circle back. There was no dead set on Canada the whole time. But that's in the past.

Picks for reclaimation projects make more sense when it's a two way street, not an exit only door from this organization. An asset poor org can't just keep giving out handouts even if they aren't large pieces. I never liked it at the time because it was needless and people complain all the time about McLeod, Mitchell and the cap they are sucking up but over 1.5M for Gelinas is definitely something that had implications on what they could do with the cap space this season.

In this specific case you could make the argument that Gelinas coming in directly caused Holden to be pushed out.

 

[tigervixxxen]

When you hear Matthias talk about signing in Winnipeg and how he was looking forward to coming back to Canada, I think it was a given he was going to sign with a Canadian team. He may have said the politically correct thing to the DP, but deep down I believe he wanted to go back to Canada

Even more reason to believe you can't pre buy loyalty from pending UFAs.

 

[tigervixxxen]

In this specific case you could make the argument that Gelinas coming in directly caused Holden to be pushed out.

Then we are still at a net of zero in the best case scenario. We ended up with the worse pick and player.

 

[dahrougem2]

Even more reason to believe you can't pre buy loyalty from pending UFAs.

No, but I don't think Sakic was looking for loyalty from Matthias. You can't force a player here, and Matthias' agent probably communicated to Sakic that they'd test the market.

 

[CobraAcesS]

When you hear Matthias talk about signing in Winnipeg and how he was looking forward to coming back to Canada, I think it was a given he was going to sign with a Canadian team. He may have said the politically correct thing to the DP, but deep down I believe he wanted to go back to Canada

I was just saying there was a window there where Sakic had a chance to be proactive. At the same time I wasn't trying to bash Sakic's choice either, as I understood the upside that Gelinas had at the time.

I think you run into a point where rumors intersect. If I had to guess, outside of a place he already felt he fit well in Colorado, his preference was definitely to go back to Canada. Both can actually be true IMO.

 

[henchman21]

Then we are still at a net of zero in the best case scenario. We ended up with the worse pick and player.

I'm not debating that, but in this case it wasn't a 1 way street. The Avs paid for a reclamation project they thought they could get working and shipped out a guy for a similar price. It obviously hasn't worked, but they did what you are asking of them in this case.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I'm not debating that, but in this case it wasn't a 1 way street. The Avs paid for a reclamation project they thought they could get working and shipped out a guy for a similar price. It obviously hasn't worked, but they did what you are asking of them in this case.

This is one instance, we aren't even close to nearing balance. It's a lot closer to a one way street than two way street. I should have said 8 lane highway vs frontage road to make it more correct I guess.

 

[Balthazar]

The trade is worse in hindsight than it was at the time. People complain bitterly about Sakic doing nothing to improve the defense, but when he buys low on a guy with NHL experience who has a chance to solidify our abysmal bottom pair, nobody is happy. Yes, he picked the wrong guy, clearly, but as somebody pointed out that's more on our pro scouting department than on Sakic.

Yes, third round picks have value, nobody is denying that. But a third round pick for a bottom pair defenseman now isn't a bad deal on the face of it. In hindsight now it's clear that Gelinas is not the answer, but I'm not upset that we tried.

Throwing picks to random teams for crap players with the hope that they'll turn into good players isn't a solution. Do you have any idea how many bottom pairing dmen have passed on this team during the last 4 seasons? I strongly encourage you to count them. It starts with Sarich, Benoit, Wilson...and then go on...

I'd wager good money that no other team in the NHL passed nearly as many bad dmen as we did in such a short period of time. All we do is shuffling crap with the hope that it will turn into something else...and we are losing draft picks in the process.

 

[Freudian]

It's possible Gelinas could carve himself a niche on another team but he, like so many before him, got exposed here and we can't cover for his weaknesses.

I fully agree that it's stupid not to test him on the PP. What's the risk? Even if you don't like him, at least give him a chance to increase his value. It's not like our PP is a well oiled machine that you can't disrupt.

But I guess they might be busy trying to boost Iginla's value.

 

[henchman21]

This is one instance, we aren't even close to nearing balance. It's a lot closer to a one way street than two way street. I should have said 8 lane highway vs frontage road to make it more correct I guess.

The Avs also have to have players that teams want. The Avs shopped Mitchell HARD at the draft with no takers. Not even for a 6th. McLeod probably has value, but the organization has to come to terms with the idea of that. The Avs can do a better job at gathering back picks, but it isn't as easy as it sounds. Of players that have had real value, Stastny was the one who the Avs really lost for 'nothing.'

 

[tigervixxxen]

The Avs also have to have players that teams want. The Avs shopped Mitchell HARD at the draft with no takers. Not even for a 6th. McLeod probably has value, but the organization has to come to terms with the idea of that. The Avs can do a better job at gathering back picks, but it isn't as easy as it sounds. Of players that have had real value, Stastny was the one who the Avs really lost for 'nothing.'

I don't doubt that but then don't spend until you have a surplus. There's a reason why there's nothing of value here, it's an endless cycle.

 

[agentblack]

Yeah its pretty telling when a 2nd rounder is immediately fast tracked to the NHL squad.

 

[henchman21]

The Avs gathered a good amount of depth from the ROR trade and subsequent moves... combine that with a push they felt they should make and they spent a bit. Then recouped as much as they could on one of the moves. The Avs will never be an organization that just gathers assets until they clean house in the front office. It has never been the culture here and likely won't be for a while.

I think we can agree that the depth of the organization as a whole is much better than what it was when Sakic and Roy first came in. It is still far from perfect, but this fall was the best the prospect pool has looked in a long while. While having a good amount of young talent in the NHL. They may not be the best combinations, but there is talent developing.

 

[InjuredChoker]

The Avs also have to have players that teams want. The Avs shopped Mitchell HARD at the draft with no takers. Not even for a 6th. McLeod probably has value, but the organization has to come to terms with the idea of that. The Avs can do a better job at gathering back picks, but it isn't as easy as it sounds. Of players that have had real value, Stastny was the one who the Avs really lost for 'nothing.'

i think there would be market for mitchell at the deadline. 4th, like matthias sounds fair.

 

[henchman21]

i think there would be market for mitchell at the deadline. 4th, like matthias sounds fair.

A 4th might be a little high, but I can see something when his cap hit isn't impactful.

 

[landy92mack29]

Another brilliant move by Sakic

 

[Avs71]

Yeah its pretty telling when a 2nd rounder is immediately fast tracked to the NHL squad.

Yeah, they dropped the ball with O'Reilly.

 

[henchman21]

Yeah, they dropped the ball with O'Reilly.

Hindsight 20/20... that might actually be the case. If ROR went to juniors for a year, there might not have been the whole bridge contract ordeal.

 

[tigervixxxen]

The Avs gathered a good amount of depth from the ROR trade and subsequent moves... combine that with a push they felt they should make and they spent a bit. Then recouped as much as they could on one of the moves. The Avs will never be an organization that just gathers assets until they clean house in the front office. It has never been the culture here and likely won't be for a while.

I think we can agree that the depth of the organization as a whole is much better than what it was when Sakic and Roy first came in. It is still far from perfect, but this fall was the best the prospect pool has looked in a long while. While having a good amount of young talent in the NHL. They may not be the best combinations, but there is talent developing.

They had to move a core player just to get some depth in this org. That's not a good strategy, every few years we shouldn't be sacrificing that just to make up for the losses that have piled up in the years between. Just gathering assets and hoarding draft picks is the other extreme of the spectrum, we aren't even approaching that. Having one deadline where they get a good pick to add would be on the way to balance.

I get that this is a philosophical debate and people just aren't going to agree but I flat out see this as critical to getting out of this mess.