GDT LA Kings vs the Nashville Predators

[101st_fan]

Why are we just looking at this month? That is just an arbitrary interval. If you look at the season so far the picture is somewhat different. Hutton should be performing much better than Maz - that was the expectation of the team since he was awarded the backup role. Now he is a more or less playing a backup to what was initially third in line backup.

So the month where your proclaimed "better" goalie has just one win isn't one you want as a comparison? Again, interesting because if he was actually performing better it wouldn't matter what time frame was cited. Using your assertion that the team's performance immediately after Rinne's infection accounts for why Hutton's record is what it is, one would think you would want a comparison as far from that time as possible.


Combined game logs for Maz and Hut since Maz was called up ... Wins in blue, starters pulled in red, relief appearances in olive.

GA SA SV SV% SO PIM TOI EV GAPP GA SH GAEN GA
2 28 26 0.929 0 0 59:57:00 1 1 0 0
4 34 30 0.882 0 0 59:58:00 4 0 0 0
2 4 2 0.5 0 0 5:59 2 0 0 0
4 29 25 0.862 0 0 53:40:00 1 3 0 0
1 18 17 0.944 0 0 47:06:00 1 0 0 0
3 5 2 0.4 0 0 14:37 3 0 0 0
4 14 10 0.714 0 0 33:51:00 3 1 0 0
0 19 19 1 0 0 23:53 0 0 0 0
3 27 24 0.889 0 0 57:59:00 1 2 0 0
2 38 36 0.947 0 0 60:00:00 2 0 0 0
1 34 33 0.971 0 0 59:57:00 1 0 0 0
1 29 28 0.966 0 2 60:00:00 1 0 0 0
5 33 28 0.848 0 0 60:00:00 4 1 0 0
0 9 9 1 0 0 18:34 0 0 0 1
4 13 9 0.692 0 0 40:00:00 3 1 0 1
3 33 30 0.909 0 0 57:28:00 2 1 0 0
2 24 22 0.917 0 0 65:00:00 2 0 0 0
2 27 25 0.926 0 0 58:09:00 2 0 0 1
0 19 19 1 1 0 60:00:00 0 0 0 0
2 31 29 0.935 0 0 60:00:00 2 0 0 0
2 34 32 0.941 0 0 58:25:00 2 0 0 0
2 26 24 0.923 0 0 60:00:00 2 0 0 0
0 27 27 1 1 0 60:00:00 0 0 0 0
2 41 39 0.951 0 0 60:00:00 2 0 0 0
0 8 8 1 0 0 20:00 0 0 0 0
4 25 21 0.84 0 0 39:48:00 3 1 0 0
3 33 30 0.909 0 0 57:40:00 2 1 0 0
5 23 18 0.783 0 0 59:56:00 4 1 0 0
3 8 5 0.625 0 0 8:23 3 0 0 0
2 24 22 0.917 0 0 51:37:00 2 0 0 0
4 31 27 0.871 0 0 60:00:00 4 0 0 0
3 38 35 0.921 0 0 60:00:00 2 1 0 0


Just as many of the poor games belong to Maz as to Hutton. Maz lost his first couple of starts including pulled at Pitt, then had a decent run in November followed by six straight losses in decisions attributed to him before last night's win.

 

[INDhockeyfan]

Win/loss records with goalies can be so deceiving because of the goal support they get or don't get. Not all the goals they allow are their fault. How many breakaways does this team allow or leave guys wide open? How many goals were when the goalie was screened or it was a deflection? Does the goalie make a save when you need it the most? Those are things that you don't see in stats. If this team wasn't one of the worst scoring teams in the league they would have a lot more wins.

 

[101st_fan]

The full combined game log for Maz, Hutton, and Rinne.

Ga sa sv sv% so pim toi ev gapp ga sh gaen ga
2 28 26 0.929 0 0 59:57:00 1 1 0 0
4 34 30 0.882 0 0 59:58:00 4 0 0 0
2 4 2 0.5 0 0 5:59 2 0 0 0
4 29 25 0.862 0 0 53:40:00 1 3 0 0
1 18 17 0.944 0 0 47:06:00 1 0 0 0
3 5 2 0.4 0 0 14:37 3 0 0 0
4 14 10 0.714 0 0 33:51:00 3 1 0 0
0 19 19 1 0 0 23:53 0 0 0 0
3 27 24 0.889 0 0 57:59:00 1 2 0 0
2 38 36 0.947 0 0 60:00:00 2 0 0 0
1 34 33 0.971 0 0 59:57:00 1 0 0 0
1 29 28 0.966 0 2 60:00:00 1 0 0 0
5 33 28 0.848 0 0 60:00:00 4 1 0 0
0 9 9 1 0 0 18:34 0 0 0 1
4 13 9 0.692 0 0 40:00:00 3 1 0 1
3 33 30 0.909 0 0 57:28:00 2 1 0 0
2 24 22 0.917 0 0 65:00:00 2 0 0 0
2 27 25 0.926 0 0 58:09:00 2 0 0 1
0 19 19 1 1 0 60:00:00 0 0 0 0
2 31 29 0.935 0 0 60:00:00 2 0 0 0
2 34 32 0.941 0 0 58:25:00 2 0 0 0
2 26 24 0.923 0 0 60:00:00 2 0 0 0
0 27 27 1 1 0 60:00:00 0 0 0 0
2 41 39 0.951 0 0 60:00:00 2 0 0 0
0 8 8 1 0 0 20:00 0 0 0 0
4 25 21 0.84 0 0 39:48:00 3 1 0 0
3 33 30 0.909 0 0 57:40:00 2 1 0 0
5 23 18 0.783 0 0 59:56:00 4 1 0 0
3 8 5 0.625 0 0 8:23 3 0 0 0
2 24 22 0.917 0 0 51:37:00 2 0 0 0
4 31 27 0.871 0 0 60:00:00 4 0 0 0
3 38 35 0.921 0 0 60:00:00 2 1 0 0
4 25 21 0.84 0 0 65:00:00 3 1 0 0
5 26 21 0.808 0 0 47:48:00 4 1 0 0
2 36 34 0.944 0 0 64:42:00 2 0 0 0
1 28 27 0.964 0 0 59:21:00 1 0 0 1
1 39 38 0.974 0 0 60:00:00 1 0 0 0
1 29 28 0.966 0 0 60:00:00 1 0 0 0
1 30 29 0.967 0 0 65:00:00 1 0 0 0
3 25 22 0.88 0 0 60:00:00 3 0 0 0
2 16 14 0.875 0 0 60:00:00 2 0 0 0
4 26 22 0.846 0 0 60:00:00 2 2 0 0
2 34 32 0.941 0 0 59:59:00 0 2 0 0
2 35 33 0.943 0 0 59:06:00 2 0 0 1
1 22 21 0.955 0 0 50:15:00 0 1 0 0
3 6 3 0.5 0 0 9:45 2 1 0 0


Just where is Maz standing out as "better" ... especially over the past month? I see inconsistency between the pipes from day one. The bolded are games where the team allowed 3+ goals .... quite a few from all of our starters with a five and eight game run where we gave up 3 or more.

 

[101st_fan]

Win/loss records with goalies can be so deceiving because of the goal support they get or don't get. Not all the goals they allow are their fault. How many breakaways does this team allow or leave guys wide open? How many goals were when the goalie was screened or it was a deflection? Does the goalie make a save when you need it the most? Those are things that you don't see in stats. If this team wasn't one of the worst scoring teams in the league they would have a lot more wins.

Only nine teams average more goals for per game than we average allowed. Our team defense is lacking yet again this season as it has for the past few seasons, especially at ES. In Pekka's Vezina finalist year, the Preds were only 13th in 5on5 goals allowed. More scoring helps ... but depending on becoming a top ten scoring team to overcome the goals allowed is asking quite a bit.

The team is something around 3-14-1 when allowing 3+ goals.

 

[Predsfan78]

So the month where your proclaimed "better" goalie has just one win isn't one you want as a comparison? Again, interesting because if he was actually performing better it wouldn't matter what time frame was cited. Using your assertion that the team's performance immediately after Rinne's infection accounts for why Hutton's record is what it is, one would think you would want a comparison as far from that time as possible.


Combined game logs for Maz and Hut since Maz was called up ... Wins in blue, starters pulled in red, relief appearances in olive.

GA SA SV SV% SO PIM TOI EV GAPP GA SH GAEN GA
2 28 26 0.929 0 0 59:57:00 1 1 0 0
4 34 30 0.882 0 0 59:58:00 4 0 0 0
2 4 2 0.5 0 0 5:59 2 0 0 0
4 29 25 0.862 0 0 53:40:00 1 3 0 0
1 18 17 0.944 0 0 47:06:00 1 0 0 0
3 5 2 0.4 0 0 14:37 3 0 0 0
4 14 10 0.714 0 0 33:51:00 3 1 0 0
0 19 19 1 0 0 23:53 0 0 0 0
3 27 24 0.889 0 0 57:59:00 1 2 0 0
2 38 36 0.947 0 0 60:00:00 2 0 0 0
1 34 33 0.971 0 0 59:57:00 1 0 0 0
1 29 28 0.966 0 2 60:00:00 1 0 0 0
5 33 28 0.848 0 0 60:00:00 4 1 0 0
0 9 9 1 0 0 18:34 0 0 0 1
4 13 9 0.692 0 0 40:00:00 3 1 0 1
3 33 30 0.909 0 0 57:28:00 2 1 0 0
2 24 22 0.917 0 0 65:00:00 2 0 0 0
2 27 25 0.926 0 0 58:09:00 2 0 0 1
0 19 19 1 1 0 60:00:00 0 0 0 0
2 31 29 0.935 0 0 60:00:00 2 0 0 0
2 34 32 0.941 0 0 58:25:00 2 0 0 0
2 26 24 0.923 0 0 60:00:00 2 0 0 0
0 27 27 1 1 0 60:00:00 0 0 0 0
2 41 39 0.951 0 0 60:00:00 2 0 0 0
0 8 8 1 0 0 20:00 0 0 0 0
4 25 21 0.84 0 0 39:48:00 3 1 0 0
3 33 30 0.909 0 0 57:40:00 2 1 0 0
5 23 18 0.783 0 0 59:56:00 4 1 0 0
3 8 5 0.625 0 0 8:23 3 0 0 0
2 24 22 0.917 0 0 51:37:00 2 0 0 0
4 31 27 0.871 0 0 60:00:00 4 0 0 0
3 38 35 0.921 0 0 60:00:00 2 1 0 0


Just as many of the poor games belong to Maz as to Hutton. Maz lost his first couple of starts including pulled at Pitt, then had a decent run in November followed by six straight losses in decisions attributed to him before last night's win.

You are the one bring up the facts that you selectively choose to make your argument. Looking at the overall chart, Maz played more minutes in less games, faced more shots and made more saves, allowed less goals on average and a more disciplined player - all while being much younger, with less experience on North American ice.



He is a better student and will only get better. We should play him more to give him more exposure to the NHL style hockey so he can continue to excel. Hutton doesn't show the same sort of progress and most likely never will. That's why I believe that we should not extend the contract to Hutton next year. He is not as good as Maz now and compared especially what Maz is going to be in the future (based on how he's played so far in a new environment).

 

[Byrddog]

Why are we just looking at this month? That is just an arbitrary interval. If you look at the season so far the picture is somewhat different. Hutton should be performing much better than Maz - that was the expectation of the team since he was awarded the backup role. Now he is a more or less playing a backup to what was initially third in line backup.

The games until Rinne returns are critical to evaluate if the org keeps Maz. Hutton has pretty much sealed his fate with his play and his age. If your the GM of another team looking down the road looking to pick up a potential starter(Maz) is receiving this evaluation now. The Preds are seeing what they have if Rinne can never make it back. While both have had rough patches MAz appears to be able to do a better job. Is it NHL starter good not close yet. Sub 500 hockey gets a back-up replaced. Sub 500 for a starter usually ends up in the coach being replaced then the goalie.

 

[101st_fan]

You are the one bring up the facts that you selectively choose to make your argument. Looking at the overall chart, Maz played more minutes in less games, faced more shots and made more saves, allowed less goals on average and a more disciplined player - all while being much younger, with less experience on North American ice.

He is a better student and will only get better. We should play him more to give him more exposure to the NHL style hockey so he can continue to excel. Hutton doesn't show the same sort of progress and most likely never will. That's why I believe that we should not extend the contract to Hutton next year. He is not as good as Maz now and compared especially what Maz is going to be in the future (based on how he's played so far in a new environment).

So, you're back to relying on his potential for the future since you can't rely on his record? As I've said, it would be great if Maz stepped up and took the reins in any of the chances he's had. The fact is that he hasn't. He had a good stretch in November where he won three in a row, lost, then won two more. He followed that with six starts the team lost, giving up 3+ goals in four consecutive starts plus four goals in relief of Hutton against Boston. Maz's December is reminiscent of Hutton's late October into November road trip ... both let in far too many goals in those spans and the team's record suffered accordingly.

 

[Predsfan78]

So, you're back to relying on his potential for the future since you can't rely on his record? As I've said, it would be great if Maz stepped up and took the reins in any of the chances he's had. The fact is that he hasn't. He had a good stretch in November where he won three in a row, lost, then won two more. He followed that with six starts the team lost, giving up 3+ goals in four consecutive starts plus four goals in relief of Hutton against Boston. Maz's December is reminiscent of Hutton's late October into November road trip ... both let in far too many goals in those spans and the team's record suffered accordingly.

I just showed you his record. It is clearly shown right here: http://predators.nhl.com/club/stats.htm

This is not some weird statistic, like "based on December numbers", or if the team was playing ES, or if it was sunny that day, or if Clune had his haircut 3 days prior.

What the overall team stats as of today show, is that Maz is a better goalie - he's made more saves, had to face more shots, was on ice longer, and allowed less goals on average at the young age of 22 with pretty much no experience playing in North America.

 

[101st_fan]

Hutton does have one penalty for clearing the puck over the glass ... it happens. Which team won that game?

I'd much rather have the goalie take a penalty and win than go PIM-less and lose. That game was one of four this month where the Preds allowed two or fewer goals. They won all four of those games ... the only games they've won this month.

 

[Predsfan78]

Hutton does have one penalty for clearing the puck over the glass ... it happens. Which team won that game?

I'd much rather have the goalie take a penalty and win than go PIM-less and lose. That game was one of four this month where the Preds allowed two or fewer goals. They won all four of those games ... the only games they've won this month.

Which goalie makes more saves, has better GAA numbers so far this season? I'll answer it for you - it's Maz. So if you want your team to win more games (since Preds do better when they allow less goals) you should stick with the goalie that allows less of them in and can make more saves.

 

[101st_fan]

I just showed you his record. It is clearly shown right here: http://predators.nhl.com/club/stats.htm

This is not some weird statistic, like "based on December numbers", or if the team was playing ES, or if it was sunny that day, or if Clune had his haircut 3 days prior.

What the overall team stats as of today show, is that Maz is a better goalie - he's made more saves, had to face more shots, was on ice longer, and allowed less goals on average at the young age of 22 with pretty much no experience playing in North America.

You showed his stat line, not his record. His record is 6 wins, 8 losses, 1 overtime loss. Hutton's record is 7 wins, 6 losses, 2 overtime losses. One goalie has a winning record, the other is two games below .500.

Notice I haven't said that Hutton is better than Maz. I've said they are interchangeable right now and both are inconsistent. One win in a month isn't getting the job done if you're a goalie. Holding the opposition to less than 3 goals once in a month isn't getting the job done. For all of his potential, Maz struggled over the past month and failed to seize the starting job from Hutton after a good overall November. The only reason he's getting any ice time is because Hutton is just as inconsistent and couldn't keep up his play 10-17 Dec.

 

[Predsfan78]

The fact that Maz and Hut are still fighting for the starting role right now when it should have been Hutton's job from the beginning is a pretty good indicator that Hutton is under performing and Maz, who should not even be playing being third in line, is doing better one would have anticipated. I actually want to see more of Maz to get a better idea of what he is made of, but Hutton I don't need to see anymore.

 

[token grinder]

I think what is missing from the stat onslaught (which I get and agree statistically you can flip a coin as to which is better), is the amount of ill-timed, or soft goals. I don't have a stat. I have the eye test, and watching the game, I see Hutton breaking the teams back more than Mazanac. 2 of the three goal games you referenced were Chicago and Montreal. Giving up 3 to Chicago isn't a sin, and the 3 in Montreal, for the most part, Mazanac was left out to dry. Another three goal game is Boston, where he gave up 2 on the PP and then was hung out on goal 6. Hutton on the other hand, kills this team when they need a stop. Fight back at tampa, he folds. Fight back vs Dallas, he folds. Heck, just starting in Dallas he was awful.

Mazanac has delivered more timely saves than Hutton and gives the team the best chance to win,

 

[Predsfan78]

I think what is missing from the stat onslaught (which I get and agree statistically you can flip a coin as to which is better), is the amount of ill-timed, or soft goals. I don't have a stat. I have the eye test, and watching the game, I see Hutton breaking the teams back more than Mazanac. 2 of the three goal games you referenced were Chicago and Montreal. Giving up 3 to Chicago isn't a sin, and the 3 in Montreal, for the most part, Mazanac was left out to dry. Another three goal game is Boston, where he gave up 2 on the PP and then was hung out on goal 6. Hutton on the other hand, kills this team when they need a stop. Fight back at tampa, he folds. Fight back vs Dallas, he folds. Heck, just starting in Dallas he was awful.

Mazanac has delivered more timely saves than Hutton and gives the team the best chance to win,

Well said.

 

[101st_fan]

I think what is missing from the stat onslaught (which I get and agree statistically you can flip a coin as to which is better), is the amount of ill-timed, or soft goals. I don't have a stat. I have the eye test, and watching the game, I see Hutton breaking the teams back more than Mazanac. 2 of the three goal games you referenced were Chicago and Montreal. Giving up 3 to Chicago isn't a sin, and the 3 in Montreal, for the most part, Mazanac was left out to dry. Another three goal game is Boston, where he gave up 2 on the PP and then was hung out on goal 6. Hutton on the other hand, kills this team when they need a stop. Fight back at tampa, he folds. Fight back vs Dallas, he folds. Heck, just starting in Dallas he was awful.

Mazanac has delivered more timely saves than Hutton and gives the team the best chance to win,

That doesn't account for Maz with one win in his last EIGHT starts including losses to Edmonton, chased by Carolina after giving up four goals on thirteen shots including Faulk's just 23 seconds in, followed two days later by a five spot to Washington. It was four goals allowed in relief against Boston, not three ... with three PPG allowed. His good November doesn't excuse his last 4+ weeks of play. Maz held the opposition to less than three goals one time this month, Hutton did it three times. Complain all we want about soft goals allowed, Hutton strung three wins together lately while Maz hasn't.

As I said, both are inconsistent. Both are interchangeable. Neither took the reins when opportunity presented itself.

 

[INDhockeyfan]

I can't believe you guys are still arguing about this. Why don't you just agree to disagree and wait another month and see how both goalies are playing and revisit it.

 

[101st_fan]

This is a team that currently has two very inconsistent goalies ... inconsistent (ok, almost invisible) ES offense, and for all of the clamoring for more offense we possess an even worse ES defense ... the next to worst 5on5 goals for/goals against ratio ahead of only Buffalo. The only high point in the season so far is the team's PP play. The PK was doing well until about the Chicago game. From Nov 16 - Dec 14 the team allowed three total goals while on the kill, seven goals allowed since Dec 17 (six games).

Somehow we're only ten points out of a playoff spot given those horrible team stats and extremely inconsistent play. If we could get our allegedly best players to show up every game coupled with a goalie showing up with good performances for more than three games a month a little thing called a winning streak could happen. Get one of those going and maybe ... just maybe ... the team can crawl back into contention.

 

[MrJoshua]

This is a team that currently has two very inconsistent goalies ... inconsistent (ok, almost invisible) ES offense, and for all of the clamoring for more offense we possess an even worse ES defense ... the next to worst 5on5 goals for/goals against ratio ahead of only Buffalo. The only high point in the season so far is the team's PP play. The PK was doing well until about the Chicago game. From Nov 16 - Dec 14 the team allowed three total goals while on the kill, seven goals allowed since Dec 17 (six games).

Somehow we're only ten points out of a playoff spot given those horrible team stats and extremely inconsistent play. If we could get our allegedly best players to show up every game coupled with a goalie showing up with good performances for more than three games a month a little thing called a winning streak could happen. Get one of those going and maybe ... just maybe ... the team can crawl back into contention.

Missing a top-5 goalie, playing a defensive seven featuring three rookies and a couple of sophomores ... This defense is going to be up and down this season. They have a ton of talent and I think they'll be possibly the best defense in the league in a couple of years, but not yet. Too much youth and inexperience with only two real veterans in the whole corps. I have to think Poile was expecting Rinne to cover a lot of the growing pains. Well, call that one a whoops.

We're simply going to have to be patient. The offense is undergoing a rebuild. For the rest of this season, let Rinne heal up and get back into shape. Let Wilson and Smith keep growing. Season Forsberg in the minors so he's ready to contribute when called up. Add a top prospect by drafting high.

Too much talent and experience gone off the roster. I don't see any quick fixes.

 

[101st_fan]

Missing a top-5 goalie, playing a defensive seven featuring three rookies and a couple of sophomores ... This defense is going to be up and down this season. They have a ton of talent and I think they'll be possibly the best defense in the league in a couple of years, but not yet. Too much youth and inexperience with only two real veterans in the whole corps. I have to think Poile was expecting Rinne to cover a lot of the growing pains. Well, call that one a whoops.

We're simply going to have to be patient. The offense is undergoing a rebuild. For the rest of this season, let Rinne heal up and get back into shape. Let Wilson and Smith keep growing. Season Forsberg in the minors so he's ready to contribute when called up. Add a top prospect by drafting high.

Too much talent and experience gone off the roster. I don't see any quick fixes.

We were the 13th ranked ES defense based on goals allowed in Rinne's Vezina finalist season. 20th last season ... 26th so far this year. The ES goal allowed woes are not new.

 

[MrJoshua]

We were the 13th ranked ES defense based on goals allowed in Rinne's Vezina finalist season. 20th last season ... 26th so far this year. The ES goal allowed woes are not new.

Take out a Norris-caliber defender and drop seven spots. Take out a Vezina-caliber goalie and drop six more. That sounds about right. Plug a healthy Rinne and Suter back onto this team and they're either a playoff team or close. If Josi and Jones continue to develop I think the defense is going to improve by leaps and bounds over the next couple of years.

 

[triggrman]

We were the 13th ranked ES defense based on goals allowed in Rinne's Vezina finalist season. 20th last season ... 26th so far this year. The ES goal allowed woes are not new.

We have not had a complete defense corps sine Kimmo and Hammer left. We've had Weber/Suter a and some other guys.

 

[101st_fan]

Take out a Norris-caliber defender and drop seven spots. Take out a Vezina-caliber goalie and drop six more. That sounds about right. Plug a healthy Rinne and Suter back onto this team and they're either a playoff team or close. If Josi and Jones continue to develop I think the defense is going to improve by leaps and bounds over the next couple of years.

Starting at 13th shows how much we allowed Rinne's play to hide what this team keeps allowing and has for years. The great defensive team the Preds once were started to fade years ago. 2010-11 we were t-3 in 5on5 goals allowed ... dropped 10 spots the next season ... 2009-10, top 10 ...

 

[101st_fan]

We have not had a complete defense corps sine Kimmo and Hammer left. We've had Weber/Suter a and some other guys.

Shhhh .... the pipeline and all .... the "defensive" Predators ... don't look at the smoke and mirrors. The 5on5 goals allowed did improve the season after Hammer left, but, we had Cube and SOB as defensive minded bottom pairing type players, and a relatively solid top two pairings. Now we have a #1 with Weber, a #2/#3 tweener with Josi, a #3 with Klein and a kindergarten.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Shhhh .... the pipeline and all .... the "defensive" Predators ... don't look at the smoke and mirrors. The 5on5 goals allowed did improve the season after Hammer left, but, we had Cube and SOB as defensive minded bottom pairing type players, and a relatively solid top two pairings. Now we have a #1 with Weber, a #2/#3 tweener with Josi, a #3 with Klein and a kindergarten.

The pipeline is frighteningly empty. Jones dropping to 4 was a boon long-term, even if allowing that franchise forward to once again slip through our fingers. Ekholm thankfully hasn't completely crapped the bed either.

 

[token grinder]

The pipeline is frighteningly empty. Jones dropping to 4 was a boon long-term, even if allowing that franchise forward to once again slip through our fingers. Ekholm thankfully hasn't completely crapped the bed either.

the pipeline defensively isn't empty, it is pouring onto the ice. We have 4 players 23 or younger playing on our blueline and are locked up at least 3 years together. I don't know what more you want here. This group would look a ton better and would like they are growing much faster with Rinne in net. The backend, aside from growing pains which are going to happen, is far from the problem, here.